100,000 Trail Passes!

[Turbo Burgo]

Food for Thought...

Just reading in my Go Snowmobiling mag and it reads that they pumped $18 Million into the OFSC trails last winter. This includes cost of equipment, repairs, fuel, wages, insurance, etc.

Well if you do the math that works out to 100,000 trails passes sold at $180/ea. Do you really think the OFSC sold that many trail passes or in and around that number?

[Wildbill]

Food for Thought...

Just reading in my Go Snowmobiling mag and it reads that they pumped $18 Million into the OFSC trails last winter. This includes cost of equipment, repairs, fuel, wages, insurance, etc.

Well if you do the math that works out to 100,000 trails passes sold at $180/ea. Do you really think the OFSC sold that many trail passes or in and around that number?

No they sold around 90,000

[mooseski]

wow

i did not think that they sold that many.

[Domino]

I wonder how many they sell at $180 compared to $230?

[Wildbill]

I stand corrected according to an OFSC governor it was around 83,000

[Wildbill]

I wonder how many they sell at $180 compared to $230?

C,mon Dom you know that the permit is the cheapest thing about sledding. Insurance,chicken wings beer,Gas,chicken wings ,beer ,sled, chcken wings,beer,etc etc.

[trailblazer]

Don't forget there was money from the Provincial Government. ($3 million)

On top of that there were donations from the corporate sponsors such as the 4 sled manufacturers, Believer's Plus Sledder's Choice Insurance, Choko Design Clothing, etc. and also many clubs run fund raising events throughout the year that all ends up back on the trails.

Jeff

[skidooer]

[Domino]

I wonder how many they sell at $180 compared to $230?

C,mon Dom you know that the permit is the cheapest thing about sledding. Insurance,chicken wings beer,Gas,chicken wings ,beer ,sled, chcken wings,beer,etc etc.

What does that have to do with my question?

If they sell 80% of the 83,000 permits @$180 and 20% @$230, then the funding is $830,000 more than if they sold them all at $180. When you are discussing the funds that where invested in our trail system last year, this math may be of some interest.

[skidooer]

C,mon Dom you know that the permit is the cheapest thing about sledding. Insurance,chicken wings beer,Gas,chicken wings ,beer ,sled, chcken wings,beer,etc etc.

• 
  [*:2p7mtq3q]Chicken wings, beer, and gas costs are directly proportional to consumption.
  [*:2p7mtq3q]If a snowmobile doesn't get used for a few years it will still be like new when the snow finally arrives, it can be sold, or it can be used on the grass / pond (just watch out for the stumps ).
  [*:2p7mtq3q]Insurance is always doing what you are paying for it to do. It can also be cancelled.

The trail permit, on the other hand, is like sticking $180 in a slot machine. You might get lucky or you might not get anything out of it. It's the lack of control on the asset that makes it not a very appealing purchase. That will hold true no matter how much or little the permit costs.

[trailblazer]

Dom, those stats are available but I don't have access to them right now.

If my memory serves me correctly at this ripe old age, I do believe last year the pre-season sales were down somewhat across most districts but the post Dec. 1st sales were up somewhat.

If I remember, I'll try to dig up those stats.

Jeff

[Big Reg]

don't forget the 3 days and 7 days permit

no money from the 3 million was in last year money, they put a side 500 000.00 for fuel sub for 2008-09 season

the other 2.5 million

district received their money over the summer to improve trails and bridges

[Wildbill]

I wonder how many they sell at $180 compared to $230?

C,mon Dom you know that the permit is the cheapest thing about sledding. Insurance,chicken wings beer,Gas,chicken wings ,beer ,sled, chcken wings,beer,etc etc.

What does that have to do with my question?

If they sell 80% of the 83,000 permits @$180 and 20% @$230, then the funding is $830,000 more than if they sold them all at $180. When you are discussing the funds that where invested in our trail system last year, this math may be of some interest.

Now that you have worded it clearly I understand your question. Usually about 80% of permits are sold at The preseason price. Don't forget the insurance cost (3 million?) and administration that the OFSC never lets us know.

[sobeit]

Now that you have worded it clearly I understand your question. Usually about 80% of permits are sold at The preseason price. Don't forget the insurance cost (3 million?) and administration that the OFSC never lets us know.

Come on Wildbill, you should know thats not true. The truth of the statement is more likely you choose not to ask your Gov for the info. The Governors have the entire budget for the organization, and Governors bring the proposed budget each and every year to their clubs in the spring (District meetings) for review and input. The Governors then approve the budget after the clubs have had the opportunity for review (and input). So, you are absolutely incorrect when you suggest that about the OFSC administration, you do have every opportunity to know.

[Bryan XC700]

don't forget the 3 days and 7 days permit

no money from the 3 million was in last year money, they put a side 500 000.00 for fuel sub for 2008-09 season

the other 2.5 million

district received their money over the summer to improve trails and bridges

So does the 90,000 permit sales include the 3 & 7 day permits or are they over and above the 90,000?

[Mrs. Mossy]

I am curious to know what the percentage of permits sold was after February 08 when we finally were blasted with snow....I'm sure that there are people that wait for the snow to arrive (and show consistency) before they will purchase a permit.

[Wildbill]

Now that you have worded it clearly I understand your question. Usually about 80% of permits are sold at The preseason price. Don't forget the insurance cost (3 million?) and administration that the OFSC never lets us know.

Come on Wildbill, you should know thats not true. The truth of the statement is more likely you choose not to ask your Gov for the info. The Governors have the entire budget for the organization, and Governors bring the proposed budget each and every year to their clubs in the spring (District meetings) for review and input. The Governors then approve the budget after the clubs have had the opportunity for review (and input). So, you are absolutely incorrect when you suggest that about the OFSC administration, you do have every opportunity to know.

OK then get a copy showing all administration costs and breakdowns and make it available.

[sobeit]

OK then get a copy showing all administration costs and breakdowns and make it available.

Are you asking me to do this? If so, the short answer is sorry, I cannot not. I am not your District Governor. It is easy, simply ask the correct people. You now know the "how" and "who", the rest is up to you. :poke:

[Wildbill]

OK then get a copy showing all administration costs and breakdowns and make it available.

Are you asking me to do this? If so, the short answer is sorry, I cannot not. I am not your District Governor. It is easy, simply ask the correct people. You now know the "how" and "who", the rest is up to you. :poke:

OK do the math the permit sales were likely only around 16 million subtract about 1.5 million for administration then take out around 3 million for insurance only leaves you 12.5 million for trails . I don't think that fundraising can make up the rest to make it to 18 million .

[skidooer]

It is easy, simply ask the correct people.

Everything in life would be easy if you knew the correct people to ask.

Personally, I'm not all that interested in the information. But had I been, I would have never guessed that the district governor was the person with the information. Even armed with that knowledge I have no idea who the district governor is, or how to find out who holds that position. I checked the OFSC website but couldn't find it there.

It's easy to say just ask so and so, but I don't think those who are involved realize how disconnected the average snowmobiler is from the system. As such, there is even less incentive for average sledders to get involved. Saying "Go to a club meeting, you'll find out there" just scares people even further away from wanting to help, in my opinion.

[Nutter]

OK then get a copy showing all administration costs and breakdowns and make it available.

Are you asking me to do this? If so, the short answer is sorry, I cannot not. I am not your District Governor. It is easy, simply ask the correct people. You now know the "how" and "who", the rest is up to you. :poke:

OK do the math the permit sales were likely only around 16 million subtract about 1.5 million for administration then take out around 3 million for insurance only leaves you 12.5 million for trails . I don't think that fundraising can make up the rest to make it to 18 million .

"Likely" isn't a real estimate of permit sales revenues, and don't forget to add in the moneys from the previous year, that were allotted for grooming and operating expenses, that wasn't used due to it being such a piss pour year. Some areas were only able to groom a couple weeks rather then 12 to 15....... big savings !! You'd also be quite surprised how much does come in from outside donations and grants, I don't have the numbers here in front of me, but they do well eclipse what Barrie's admin costs are many times over.

[Nutter]

It is easy, simply ask the correct people.

Everything in life would be easy if you knew the correct people to ask.

Personally, I'm not all that interested in the information. But had I been, I would have never guessed that the district governor was the person with the information. Even armed with that knowledge I have no idea who the district governor is, or how to find out who holds that position. I checked the OFSC website but couldn't find it there.

It's easy to say just ask so and so, but I don't think those who are involved realize how disconnected the average snowmobiler is from the system. As such, there is even less incentive for average sledders to get involved. Saying "Go to a club meeting, you'll find out there" just scares people even further away from wanting to help, in my opinion.

The only other option would be to take more money off the snow...... To hire someone do a monthly independent audit, then take that along with all the minutes of all the board, exec and committee meetings and hire someone to put it on line. But since not all permit buyers have computers or are computer savvy, we'll also have to publish them in a phone book sized news letter, then pay to have it distributed to the permit buyer, ??

Or the permit buyer could just go to a club meeting a few times a season, or once a month. And ask questions, provide input and help elect the people that over see these things. And possibly even enjoy being involved, and possibly even come out and help with trail work or events a a couple days out of a year (or more).

[skidooer]

But since not all permit buyers have computers or are computer savvy

75% of Canadians have computers and internet connections at home. That doesn't even account for those who have access at work.

Since snowmobilers are a little more affluent than average, we'll assume those numbers are even higher. Let's say 95% of snowmobilers have easy access to the internet. (Everyone in the entire country does if you include library access, but I digress) That leaves 4,500 in the dark. Since they even give computers away for free these days, if they are really interested in the information, they can get a computer.

There is no inherit cost to publishing the information as it should be stored electronically already.

Just because 4,500 people do not have computers does not mean we should put the OFSC at a standstill indefinitely. If I don't have a car, are you going to stop holding club meetings because I cannot get there? Of course not. So why is this any different?

Anyway, that's my point of view. Use the information as you see fit. Not trying to push my ideas, just sharing them so that the sport can improve for everyone.

[Nutter]

But since not all permit buyers have computers or are computer savvy

75% of Canadians have computers and internet connections at home. That doesn't even account for those who have access at work.

Since snowmobilers are a little more affluent than average, we'll assume those numbers are even higher. Let's say 95% of snowmobilers have easy access to the internet. (Everyone in the entire country does if you include library access, but I digress) That leaves 4,500 in the dark. Since they even give computers away for free these days, if they are really interested in the information, they can get a computer.

There is no inherit cost to publishing the information as it should be stored electronically already.

Just because 4,500 people do not have computers does not mean we should put the OFSC at a standstill indefinitely. If I don't have a car, are you going to stop holding club meetings because I cannot get there? Of course not. So why is this any different?

Anyway, that's my point of view. Use the information as you see fit. Not trying to push my ideas, just sharing them so that the sport can improve for everyone.

Understood not trying to push here either just try to show how I see it, from my side of the fence.

As for those who don't have a car, they probably don't have a sled either and wouldn't be concerned about this information. And that 25% percent that doesn't have computers are most likey the old timers that are keeping the clubs and trails going.

But great idea in theory none the less, to get it all up on the web. But it will still take more money off the snow to do it, when there is an avenue that already does it. But hey you could always go to a meeting, or e-mail someone from a snowmobile club if your not already an involved member, and see if they would support your idea enough to bring it to their clubs attention, then their club could see if they would like to back it in a motion to be presented at next years AGM ??

[skidooer]

But hey you could always go to a meeting, or e-mail someone from a snowmobile club if your not already an involved member, and see if they would support your idea enough to bring it to their clubs attention, then their club could see if they would like to back it in a motion to be presented at next years AGM ??

As far as I know you are a member of a snowmobile club. It sounds like my work here is done.

But seriously, that's how it should work. I raised my idea. If it's good it will spread. That's how the internet works and why I'm such a proponent of bringing the OFSC closer to it. I'm not sure if you follow any large internet communities, but if you do you have probably noticed how ideas grow organically and things get done.

What you have suggested here is the antithesis of what I am talking about. The mere fact that I would have to take all those steps to make something happens shows that my plan would never succeed, unfortunately. Still, it's fun to think about and discuss.