Heating cottage with basement throughout winter

[ArcticCrusher]

10 minutes ago, Nutter said:

 

Thanks Rick, going to start doing more wifi stuff for piece of mind and convenience. So far we've got a 4 camera set up and a bunch of lighting tapped into our phones. The garage pellet stove is a bit of pita to figure out, I need an electronics guru to tap into the stoves on off circuit in the motherboard, so I can jump it to a wifi switch. 

 

The wifi cameras are great, both Blink and Eufy batteries will last over 6 months with varied use and not to many false signals, ie wind moving leaves etc.

 

A wifi switch should connect to a potential free relay in the circuit since you will have two voltage sources (120V and low DC from the circuit).  Do you have the circuit?  I'm an electrical engineer if you recall and do controls automation for a living.  Piece of cake.

[Nutter]

17 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

The wifi cameras are great, both Blink and Eufy batteries will last over 6 months with varied use and not to many false signals, ie wind moving leaves etc.

 

A wifi switch should connect to a potential free relay in the circuit since you will have two voltage sources (120V and low DC from the circuit).  Do you have the circuit?  I'm an electrical engineer if you recall and do controls automation for a living.  Piece of cake.

 

Awesome thanks

 

Here's a link to the manual for the stove, circuit diagram page 21. 

 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2071/6041/files/25-PDVC_USandCANADA.pdf?14626357853177001156

[ArcticCrusher]

18 minutes ago, Nutter said:

 

Awesome thanks

 

Here's a link to the manual for the stove, circuit diagram page 21. 

 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2071/6041/files/25-PDVC_USandCANADA.pdf?14626357853177001156

I would connect to the wall thermostat J18 connector, you can use a wifi thermostat directly if the contacts are voltage (potential free) or an interposing relay connect to a wifi switch.  The switch energizes the relay coil, the relay contacts are wired in series to enable/disable the circuit and then uses the existing thermostat.  You then don't have to be concerned about mixing voltages. 

 

 

 

[Nutter]

40 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

I would connect to the wall thermostat J18 connector, you can use a wifi thermostat directly if the contacts are voltage (potential free) or an interposing relay connect to a wifi switch.  The switch energizes the relay coil, the relay contacts are wired in series to enable/disable the circuit and then uses the existing thermostat.  You then don't have to be concerned about mixing voltages. 

 

 

 

 

You kind of lost me there lol  Would I be able to leave it turned off and turn it on on Thursday or Friday morning ?

[ArcticCrusher]

44 minutes ago, Nutter said:

 

You kind of lost me there lol  Would I be able to leave it turned off and turn it on on Thursday or Friday morning ?

You can connect the unit directly to a wifi switch if you can get it to autostart when power is applied.

 

The circuit I showed you will just control the tstat, not go through a startup procedure.  That is not shown in the circuit and may not be possible.

[ArcticCrusher]

34 minutes ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

Why not use the WIFI thermostat directly. It will work. 

You can.  How is the wifi thermostat powered, if it is from the unit then it needs compatible voltages (ie 24V) or powered independently, hence the voltage isolation using a relay.

[Nutter]

4 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

I would connect to the wall thermostat J18 connector, you can use a wifi thermostat directly if the contacts are voltage (potential free) or an interposing relay connect to a wifi switch.  The switch energizes the relay coil, the relay contacts are wired in series to enable/disable the circuit and then uses the existing thermostat.  You then don't have to be concerned about mixing voltages. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

Why not use the WIFI thermostat directly. It will work. 

 

2 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

You can connect the unit directly to a wifi switch if you can get it to autostart when power is applied.

 

The circuit I showed you will just control the tstat, not go through a startup procedure.  That is not shown in the circuit and may not be possible.

 

2 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

You can.  How is the wifi thermostat powered, if it is from the unit then it needs compatible voltages (ie 24V) or powered independently, hence the voltage isolation using a relay.

 

2 hours ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

usually by batteries and then 24v signal unless you dont have a common wire which its them powered by......................batteries. 

Just have to check them regularly

 

Thanks guys, I'll fiddle with it this weekend. I'm guessing it all depends on if it stays on in a standby by mode when hooked to a thermostat ? I did read this in the manual and check the cold start procedure they refer to, it wasn't of much help lol 

 

Quote

Thermostat

An external wall thermostat (such as our Part # PU-DTSTAT) can be used on our pellet units, as long as it is a low-voltage type that works with millivolt systems. After unplugging the unit, locate the jumper wire (J-18) on the bottom of the control panel. The two screws should then be loosened and the jumper wire removed from the board. Next, the two thermostat lead wires should be slipped into these openings and the screws tightened; the jumper wire should be saved for future operation without a thermostat. The unit will operate differently once the wall thermostat is connected – we recommend the Control Board be set at “9” on Heat Range and Blower Speed while using the thermostat. Refer to the section on “Start-up Procedure” for information on cold starts.

 

 

 

 

Sorry didn't mean to highjack your post Stoney 

[stoney]

3 hours ago, Nutter said:

Sorry didn't mean to highjack your post Stoney 

LOL...no worries, all these details surrounding cottage and winter use is helpful.

Plus, I am not one to get worked up over these things 

[Nutter]

So was finally able to play with the garage pellet stove and thermostat set up last night and this morning. So far I'm SOL for remote start via the thermostat being kicked on and off.

 

When hooked to a thermostat it wont cycle on and off when the thermostat is turned on and off, and with the thermostat turned down to 60* it will stay running at the lowest burn rate, even if it's exciding 60* in the garage. Talked to a couple England Stove dealers and as figured no one wants to discuss a pellet stove remote igniting with no one there, even though all the safe guards will prevent any over burn or snuffing out issues, just as it would with leaving it on when no ones home, or over night when sleeping, which they are designed to do. 

[Ox]

Remote lighting?

Like - completely starting up from nothing?

You gotta be kidd'n?

 

 

The lowest setting is the lowest that I know of them going.

There is no such thing as a pilot light on them eh?

 

I would no recommend a pellet stove for unattended use for long.

I have once had the fire burn (smolder) back up the screw into the tank.

I don't remember what the cause was, but my guess was that the feed motor died?

 

I'll take gas thank you very much!

 

[ArcticCrusher]

2 hours ago, Nutter said:

So was finally able to play with the garage pellet stove and thermostat set up last night and this morning. So far I'm SOL for remote start via the thermostat being kicked on and off.

 

When hooked to a thermostat it wont cycle on and off when the thermostat is turned on and off, and with the thermostat turned down to 60* it will stay running at the lowest burn rate, even if it's exciding 60* in the garage. Talked to a couple England Stove dealers and as figured no one wants to discuss a pellet stove remote igniting with no one there, even though all the safe guards will prevent any over burn or snuffing out issues, just as it would with leaving it on when no ones home, or over night when sleeping, which they are designed to do. 

That's what I figured when I looked at the manual.  

[Nutter]

3 hours ago, Ox said:

Remote lighting?

Like - completely starting up from nothing?

You gotta be kidd'n?

 

 

The lowest setting is the lowest that I know of them going.

There is no such thing as a pilot light on them eh?

 

I would no recommend a pellet stove for unattended use for long.

I have once had the fire burn (smolder) back up the screw into the tank.

I don't remember what the cause was, but my guess was that the feed motor died?

 

I'll take gas thank you very much!

 

 

 

It's self igniting but have to manually touch the on button, been running pellet stoves without issue for years, never had any problems leaving them running on their own while out riding for 8 -10 hours or over night while were sleeping. Both our garage and in the cottage stoves have sealed hoppers and also have safe guards so they can't run away burn up the auger into the hopper. Both are also vented out and above the roof line to pull a draft if the power goes out, so they wont smoke the cottage or garage out before they burn out. 

 

The Enviro pellet unit in cottage could run off a wifi plug and it will light by just supplying power with presetting the controls, due to being a none computerized control panel, but no need since we keep the cottage at 58 with the propane furnace when not there. But no such luck with the garage unit.

 

We have been considering swapping them but the England in the garage is an industrial look unit and the Enviro in the cottage is a bigger BTU unit, and fits the look inside better, and is a lot quieter. 

[Ox]

Oh, I sure woodn't worry aboot the pellet stove while out riding or anything - no.

I just meant - like leaving for the week.

 

Yeah, my bin is relatively sealed too I guess. Like I said - it smoldered. 

Not so likely to burn the place down, but I still don't like the thought.

 

Are pellets all that much cheaper heat than gas up there?

 

Last we burnt pellets was that cold winter of 13/14 when LP was in scarce supply.

I have a pair of pellet (corn) "furnaces", and we ran one in the shop and one in the house that winter.

 

I bought the first one to burn corn, back when they were giving it away.

It felt terribly wrong to burn food when you can't eat coal or oil, but I figgered there must be quite a glut of it if they were giving it away. (for $2 USF)

That also gave a good job for my young teenager at the time. 

 

 

So - how does this thing light it'self?

Does it use LP?

 

 

 

[Nutter]

2 hours ago, Ox said:

Oh, I sure woodn't worry aboot the pellet stove while out riding or anything - no.

I just meant - like leaving for the week.

 

Yeah, my bin is relatively sealed too I guess. Like I said - it smoldered. 

Not so likely to burn the place down, but I still don't like the thought.

 

Are pellets all that much cheaper heat than gas up there?

 

Last we burnt pellets was that cold winter of 13/14 when LP was in scarce supply.

I have a pair of pellet (corn) "furnaces", and we ran one in the shop and one in the house that winter.

 

I bought the first one to burn corn, back when they were giving it away.

It felt terribly wrong to burn food when you can't eat coal or oil, but I figgered there must be quite a glut of it if they were giving it away. (for $2 USF)

That also gave a good job for my young teenager at the time. 

 

 

So - how does this thing light it'self?

Does it use LP?

 

 

 

 

I just want to be able to remotely light it to pre heat the garage before we head up for the weekend. I have a buddy that comes and hits the button Thursdays or Fridays during the season when were heading up. But would like to not depend on others, and in case he's away.   They have igniting rods/elements behind the burn box with a little 1/4 inch hole, hit the start button and the pellets start to drop and the element heats up good and hot and ignites the pellets, once the fire starts and the fire box hits a certain temp the element turns off. 

 

If you scroll back and read my first post in the thread it explains why we use them and somewhat of a cost break down. They fit the bill perfect for us, I find the cost to be more than reasonable and it's such nice heat. I ran wood stoves for over 30 years at home and the cottage and am done with cutting and splitting and the mess. Worst case now is the odd stray pellet hitting the floor when filling the hoppers lol 

[Ox]

I haven't cut and burnt wood in nigh on 30 yrs.

(don't have a cabin tho either)

 

Was just at the Nutter Center down in Dayton, Ohio on Friday night to see Sarah Evans and Alabama.

My wife really wanted to see Sarah, but she wasn't feeling up to par, so Exile opened up in stead.

Then everything / anything else that she wanted to go see and doo on Saturday (like Wright Patterson AF base) was now requiring masks, so we came home early.

My wife / a happy camper!

 

Never heard of Nutter before. We don't venture that direction often. Let alone that far.

Any relation to you?

I've never heard that name 'till now.

[Nutter]

17 hours ago, Ox said:

I haven't cut and burnt wood in nigh on 30 yrs.

(don't have a cabin tho either)

 

Was just at the Nutter Center down in Dayton, Ohio on Friday night to see Sarah Evans and Alabama.

My wife really wanted to see Sarah, but she wasn't feeling up to par, so Exile opened up in stead.

Then everything / anything else that she wanted to go see and doo on Saturday (like Wright Patterson AF base) was now requiring masks, so we came home early.

My wife / a happy camper!

 

Never heard of Nutter before. We don't venture that direction often. Let alone that far.

Any relation to you?

I've never heard that name 'till now.

 

 

No no relation, just a nick name given to me from my chums eons ago lol 

[ArcticCrusher]

20 hours ago, Nutter said:

 

I just want to be able to remotely light it to pre heat the garage before we head up for the weekend. I have a buddy that comes and hits the button Thursdays or Fridays during the season when were heading up. But would like to not depend on others, and in case he's away.   They have igniting rods/elements behind the burn box with a little 1/4 inch hole, hit the start button and the pellets start to drop and the element heats up good and hot and ignites the pellets, once the fire starts and the fire box hits a certain temp the element turns off. 

 

If you scroll back and read my first post in the thread it explains why we use them and somewhat of a cost break down. They fit the bill perfect for us, I find the cost to be more than reasonable and it's such nice heat. I ran wood stoves for over 30 years at home and the cottage and am done with cutting and splitting and the mess. Worst case now is the odd stray pellet hitting the floor when filling the hoppers lol 

What happens if you short the start button momentarily, would it not fire up?

 

 

[Nutter]

6 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

What happens if you short the start button momentarily, would it not fire up?

 

 

 

No idea ?  don't want to fry the mother board poking around with it without knowing exactly what I'm doing. 

[soupkids]

17 hours ago, Nutter said:

 

No idea ?  don't want to fry the mother board poking around with it without knowing exactly what I'm doing. 

Has that ever stopped you before ??

Lol

 

[ArcticCrusher]

18 hours ago, Nutter said:

 

No idea ?  don't want to fry the mother board poking around with it without knowing exactly what I'm doing. 

It will fire up if you momentarily short the start as that's what the circuit does.

[ArcticCrusher]

41 minutes ago, soupkids said:

Has that ever stopped you before ??

Lol

 

Guy can build a cottage but is afraid of two wires.  Lol.

[Nutter]

On 9/29/2021 at 5:16 PM, ArcticCrusher said:

Guy can build a cottage but is afraid of two wires.  Lol.

 

No issues playing with house hold wiring, but when it comes to soldering little wires on circuit boards I'm out, plus my meat hooks really are not designed for small stuff lol 

[Ox]

Yeah, I'll move 480 all over - no worries, but recently I just wasted a pair of [good] spindle drives by flip flopping "top cards" (brains).

 

Was checking to see what part of which was good to go, and when I got done, NOTHING was good. It seemed that maybe the brawn of one drive, took out it's top card,and when I put that top card on the next base (brawn), it buggerd that. Then on to amp 3. It was a real domino effect. (sorry monkey!)

 

Normally that is a safe thing to doo. Part numbers on the cards were all the same, and they sell them sepperate regularly, but this time I heard the word "GOTCHA" come through loud and clear.

 

So, yeah, I understand what he is saying.

[stoney]

On 9/13/2021 at 6:13 PM, Nutter said:

1100sqft cottage, 3 bedroom 1 bath open concept kitchen, dining and living room and 10x8 mud/laundry room addition. 40 inch crawl space on piers, sand ground with 8 mil polly covering it, outer walls in crawl space skirted with wood and 2 inch Styrofoam, under floor is pink fiber held up with stapled strapped Tyvek. Cottage and garage are both 70's 2x4 stick frame, new insulation and vapor barrier when we bought and did a full gut reno on the cottage, also pulled the oil furnace and went to propane, pellet stoves in both cottage and insulated unattached 24x26 garage. We leave the furnace at 58 when were not there, no ducting underneath never had any pipes freeze. Turn the furnace up to 70 and pellet stoves on when we get there, up to temp within the hour and the furnace doesn't run again till about 12-24 hours after we leave (we usually leave the pellet stoves running after we leave till they run out of pellets). 

 

We hang out in the garage living/party room 90% of the time, ceiling fan and window wide open with a fan in it on high blowing heat out, as even on lowest burn setting it's tough to keep it at 70 or under. Once that slab floor in the garage heats up it holds the heat well, usually only 4 days home before heading back up and it stays above freezing in there, usually around 10 deg, I think the coldest I've seen it was 5 deg. 

 

Two 420 tank fills a year and a bag of pellets every 24 - 30 hours for each stove ($6.50 a bag) while were up. Cost for both propane and pellets is $1200 to $1500 a year. Small price to pay for the convenience of leaving it heated and not messing with draining plumbing. Growing up with a family cottage my dad would always shutter the place every week, usually always had to screw with getting the water going, 3 - 4 hours till you could get down to a sweater, furniture and bedding held the damp cold till well into Sat eve LOL 

 

Never bothered to see what our cost would be shuttering every week and re heating from what ever temp it dropped too, I bet it wouldn't be a very big difference. Defiantly not worth the inconveniences to us anyways. 

 

Nutter - Mind sharing the details on the pellet stoves you went with for your set up and if there was any reasoning on what you bought and why?

I see there are some models that vent out the wall like a gas fireplace or some that use a traditional chimney as well.

Looking into these and recalled you mentioning them, so found the thread and figured I'd ask.

Thanks!