Todays ride- Friday Feb 14th.

[Irv]

Interesting choices IMO......a Vector is a nice groomed trail "big mile" sled with great economy 4 stroke, and a very "old school" seating position IMO.

 

So comparing any vector to any etec (rev xp/xs) is really like night and day.  

 

These etecs are so so so much lighter then the older Yams, its hard to thoroughly relay in type how much more fun they are to ride, and how much less fatigued you will be after a 200 mile day in twistys and bumps.  

 

I owned an apex from 06 to 2013.  It was my fave alltime sled, tons of power and very reliable, no smoke or oil usage, decent MPG around 13-15mpg(US)   

 

When i bought a new cat turbo, it felt lighter and totally awesome with rider forward position, but was plagued with poor engineering. I would never touch a procross cat or viper after I dove into how poorly the cats are designed and built, and even after 4 season cat still has not figured out the belt blowing.

 

Once I rode an etec X package with Rmotion on bumps, i was blown away...i thought the cat rode great, and apex too.....but man o man riding the cat and etec back to back down same bumpy trail truly was the best comparo ever, cat rode like a brick compared to Rmo.

 

So IMO there is no choice, considering a vector which is a very old chassis with a very old skid, would not even be in the mix....the vector does have incredible MPG, great power, and 4 stroke reliability and ultra longevity.  If you want to keep this sled for 10,000+ miles, and ride smooth fast long trails, and tour big miles, then by all means buy a vector. These will give you miles of smiles as long as you are ok with that old seat position.

 

As for an etec....The X package which is spring order only, and comes with the premium gauges and clicker shocks which are well worth it IMO.  I would not buy a TnT package, even though many people own them and like them, i simply wanted the better shocks and best gauges.  The tnt you can pick up during the season(without spring ordering) at most dealers, they do offer better pricing then an X but at the same time wont have the great resale value that an X has.

 

137 Gade vs. 120 Mxz.---  I have always been a shorty guy, I ride muskoka trails and anyone around here knows we have some of the tightest twisty trails around,  This is where the mxz-X shorty works so well.  I have rode plenty of 129" and 137" sleds around my trails, and IMO if you are studded you will always have more "Push" with the longer studded track vs. short tracks.....So now you must add larger carbides to turn in twistys and now you have made the nice light steering etec HEAVY.   

 

So what it comes down to is what type trails you ride primarily....IMO the Rmotion does everything so well, along with the incredible X seat(plushest seat ive ever sat on) you will never feel like you get beat up on the shorty.   Sure the 137 will bridge the short studders better, but the shorty does so well in studders I will take it everytime.   With the shorty you can keep smaller carbide, and keep light steering, and carve up the tight twistys much better with much less push then the gade.

 

I think probably a bigger question for you is....will you be ok with going back to 2 stroke after owning 4 strokes.....personally i thought i WOULD NEVER go back to 2 stroke after running 4s since 06.    But the etec does everything so well, and is very refined and quiet, you almost forget its a 2s.  The big thing i dont like is burning oil, and smell of oil....I run interceptor oil cause XPS DOO oil just plain stinks to high heaven and gives me headaches.  Burning oil just plain sucks compared to 4s since they burn NONE.  And you must use 91premium fuel.  So even though etecs get amazing fuel economy, the prem fuel and oil usage can bring total cost of ownership up quickly, depending on miles per season.  If you go with the 600etec, they get about double the OIL economy that my 800 gets, and the 600etec has plenty of jam for trail riding, the 800 is needed for lake running though if you run with guys with bigger sleds, the 600 would be very close to a vector HP wise.  

 

Not sure what else i can add....but the etec will make a 50 yr old feel 18 again!   Lots of us all agree we ride like kids again, not tired after a 200 mile days, where the cat/apex would have me wiped out.  Just remember with a 2s you will want to trade up more often,they will never have the motor longevity IMO of a 4s.     Something you may consider is the 1200 DOO.   You can get it with Rmotion in gade or mxz shorty, and have the benefit of a 4s 1200 motor(same class as viper@ 135hp)    The drawback of the 1200 IMO is its not as light as the etecs, with 40lbs additional it does not sound bad, but its all in the nose and you do feel it in trails, ive rode one back to back with mine and you do feel it.   But if you wanted a 4s exclusively, this would be the one you want....better then viper or vector IMO all around.  

 

You could also look at the new 900ace, love this sled as we rode them.....light, 4s great mpg.....only thing lacking is it only has 95hp or so....and is slower then a 600etec on top end.  But if power is not a big deal, these new ACE 900s are loved by most who bought them, and magazine writers give them great reviews.  

 

also, keep eye out for possibly updated 15 doo,  as the 1200 doo is really getting dated(came out 09) and has no changes.  So if they update the chassis to rev xs or maybe a larger ACE motor for 15, this would be the ultimate sled to have.....a lighter 4s, the sled that most everyone is waiting for.

 

15 doos will be revealed on march 4th.   Dootalk has tons of great info if you are considering any new doo....I have never loved a new sled so much as this one i own now.  2000 miles on her already, just gas and go.

 

Dan

 

Excellent info Dan, and just what I was looking for!

 

My choice would be sticking to a 4 stroke as I love the gas and go scenerio without having to worry about oil, nor the 91+ octane fuel.

 

I keep hearing great things about the 900 Ace but I am not sure if it would be enough for me coming from my Vector? I don't care about being the first one across a lake but I do love how it just keeps pulling and pulling and the throttle is right there!

Not saying the 900 isn't like that, maybe it is, but I am assuming it isn't?

 

The other decision I have to make (If I go Doo) is to get the Gade or stick with a 120? I don't believe my trails are as tight as Muskoka's, although I am quite sure some are similar in places, so I think the Gade would be my best choice as the main reason for me thinking about upgrading, is becasue I am after a better ride, and I am pretty sure the Gade will give me that, although it may be slight?

 

Another concern however, is, will it fit in my 10ft Sno Pro enclosed? Not looking to upgrade my trailer just yet ($$$) as I simply can't afford to do both at this time, and not likely by next winter either?

 

I would really love to try a 1200 Gade but I don't believe Doo has any demos anywhere within a reasonble drive for me this winter, if any at all?

 

Thanks again for the info, I do appreciate it.

[gator]

Excellent info Dan, and just what I was looking for!

 

My choice would be sticking to a 4 stroke as I love the gas and go scenerio without having to worry about oil, nor the 91+ octane fuel.

 

I keep hearing great things about the 900 Ace but I am not sure if it would be enough for me coming from my Vector? I don't care about being the first one across a lake but I do love how it just keeps pulling and pulling and the throttle is right there!

Not saying the 900 isn't like that, maybe it is, but I am assuming it isn't?

 

The other decision I have to make (If I go Doo) is to get the Gade or stick with a 120? I don't believe my trails are as tight as Muskoka's, although I am quite sure some are similar in places, so I think the Gade would be my best choice as the main reason for me thinking about upgrading, is becasue I am after a better ride, and I am pretty sure the Gade will give me that, although it may be slight?

 

Another concern however, is, will it fit in my 10ft Sno Pro enclosed? Not looking to upgrade my trailer just yet ($$$) as I simply can't afford to do both at this time, and not likely by next winter either?

 

I would really love to try a 1200 Gade but I don't believe Doo has any demos anywhere within a reasonble drive for me this winter, if any at all?

 

Thanks again for the info, I do appreciate it.

My current sled is the 900ACE GSX LE. My previous sled was a Polaris Turbo Switchback. Believe me the 900ACE is the perfect trail sled. The acceleration is unbelievable. The only spot were the 900 falls short is top speed on a long lake run. That is of no concern to me. On the trails you will be as fast as any 800 2S (except rail beds).

 

As mentioned, the rmotion is a great rear suspension. Pretty well all of my previous sleds were 136 but I love the 120 rmotion. I don't think I would hesitate in getting a 136 again but if the sled was available with a 120 or longer I would go for the 120. The 120 is ideal on twisty Muskoka trails.

[crazylegs]

Not to sound like a broken record here guys but like I said, I too have driven both the shortie and the gade back to back this year and like dan said the gade just doesn't corner as good as the short track.

My last three sleds have been shorties and this is my first long track and that is one of the first things I noticed was the slight pushing in the corners.

It would be nice to demo a 1200, I'm sure it will steer different then the etec with the extra weight in the front end. But for myself i like having the light weight to go with my riding style.

Good luck with your decision. Just a note I think the new 15 ski doo's are reviled on March 4. Lots of rumors out there maybe a little higher horse power 1200 or ace motor. Time will tell.

[ScottyD]

everyone has their opinion, lol, bottom line is pick what you think is best for you

[crazylegs]

everyone has their opinion, lol, bottom line is pick what you think is best for you

Agree!!

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Irv- the renegade will fit in the 10 foot trailer no problem. But its close. You will like the 1200 its a nice ride albeit nose heavy. I didn't like it for muskoka trails.

 

As for the gade. Trust me I was 100% against it. But I ran thing thing hard up 88 , 37 and 83,82. No way the shorty would be faster. Equal sure but faster nope. Shorty is way too squirrelly where the gade plants itself and rails. Even more so if those trails were full of stutter bumps.

[rockerdan]

Excellent info Dan, and just what I was looking for!

 

My choice would be sticking to a 4 stroke as I love the gas and go scenerio without having to worry about oil, nor the 91+ octane fuel.

 

I keep hearing great things about the 900 Ace but I am not sure if it would be enough for me coming from my Vector? I don't care about being the first one across a lake but I do love how it just keeps pulling and pulling and the throttle is right there!

Not saying the 900 isn't like that, maybe it is, but I am assuming it isn't?

 

The other decision I have to make (If I go Doo) is to get the Gade or stick with a 120? I don't believe my trails are as tight as Muskoka's, although I am quite sure some are similar in places, so I think the Gade would be my best choice as the main reason for me thinking about upgrading, is becasue I am after a better ride, and I am pretty sure the Gade will give me that, although it may be slight?

 

Another concern however, is, will it fit in my 10ft Sno Pro enclosed? Not looking to upgrade my trailer just yet ($$$) as I simply can't afford to do both at this time, and not likely by next winter either?

 

I would really love to try a 1200 Gade but I don't believe Doo has any demos anywhere within a reasonble drive for me this winter, if any at all?

 

Thanks again for the info, I do appreciate it.

 

I would go over and read dootalk 900ACE section....I have read alot about them and the guys are loving these sleds.  I actually thought it was incredible when we demo'd the gade verson over at northland rec....If i were you, id call them and schedule a demo of their 900ace gade and see for yourself if you think its got the balls.   They are on a lake so you will be able to open her up,and then have them take you on some trails too.   I think the trade off in less top speed will be the incredible MPG, guys on dootalk are polling 21-23mpg mostly, and that is US gallons!   Hard to imagine getting such great MPG.   It also comes in the XS chassis(same as mine) and feels just as light as my etecX.    The 1200 is in the very dated XR plastics, and seem very bulky from the helm.  

 

Best thing you can do is ride them all if possible.....You really cannot know for sure by reading or asking people, as sledding is such a personal preference.   

 

I read for yrs from guys I highly respect how great the 1200 was,  the XR forum guys pretty much worship their 1200s..lol   So when i finally got to ride one BACK TO BACK with my 800 etec on same trail,same day....i was really disappointed how much it lacked on power, and extra weight and poor feel compared to the 800.   

 

So what i learned is no matter how many people say something good OR bad about any sled, you gotta ride one yourself and decide.  The other thing is when demo'ng another sled, or riding a buds....many times the other sled might be poorly setup, so you need to know if a good pair of carbides, or a better setup skid/shocks would change the feel enough to make the sled feel better.

 

yrs ago with my apex people would tell me they are tanks and dont handle well.....but then id let them ride mine, and it railed nicely...So setup can have a ton to do with a sled too.   Many new sleds setup from factory are often "soft".  meaning small carbide,light susp all around.  So they most times will be pushy, and this is something you just know that is typical and can be tuned out.  

 

I think either way, the DOO Rmotion(in pretty much all their models now) is heads and tails above the others for ride quality.....Whichever model you choose from BRP you will be happy im confident.

 

Also Tues 4th we will know more about 15s....I honestly think DOO will update the 1200 finally(hoping) to a new larger 1330 ACE, with similar HP(135ish) and new XS plastics, with same weight and near same MPG as the current 900ace....this would be a huge seller IMO for them, and the 1200 owners would all order one, along with alot of 800 and 600 owners. 

[ScottyD]

I would go over and read dootalk 900ACE section....I have read alot about them and the guys are loving these sleds.  I actually thought it was incredible when we demo'd the gade verson over at northland rec....If i were you, id call them and schedule a demo of their 900ace gade and see for yourself if you think its got the balls.   They are on a lake so you will be able to open her up,and then have them take you on some trails too.   I think the trade off in less top speed will be the incredible MPG, guys on dootalk are polling 21-23mpg mostly, and that is US gallons!   Hard to imagine getting such great MPG.   It also comes in the XS chassis(same as mine) and feels just as light as my etecX.    The 1200 is in the very dated XR plastics, and seem very bulky from the helm.  

 

Best thing you can do is ride them all if possible.....You really cannot know for sure by reading or asking people, as sledding is such a personal preference.   

 

I read for yrs from guys I highly respect how great the 1200 was,  the XR forum guys pretty much worship their 1200s..lol   So when i finally got to ride one BACK TO BACK with my 800 etec on same trail,same day....i was really disappointed how much it lacked on power, and extra weight and poor feel compared to the 800.   

 

So what i learned is no matter how many people say something good OR bad about any sled, you gotta ride one yourself and decide.  The other thing is when demo'ng another sled, or riding a buds....many times the other sled might be poorly setup, so you need to know if a good pair of carbides, or a better setup skid/shocks would change the feel enough to make the sled feel better.

 

yrs ago with my apex people would tell me they are tanks and dont handle well.....but then id let them ride mine, and it railed nicely...So setup can have a ton to do with a sled too.   Many new sleds setup from factory are often "soft".  meaning small carbide,light susp all around.  So they most times will be pushy, and this is something you just know that is typical and can be tuned out.  

 

I think either way, the DOO Rmotion(in pretty much all their models now) is heads and tails above the others for ride quality.....Whichever model you choose from BRP you will be happy im confident.

 

Also Tues 4th we will know more about 15s....I honestly think DOO will update the 1200 finally(hoping) to a new larger 1330 ACE, with similar HP(135ish) and new XS plastics, with same weight and near same MPG as the current 900ace....this would be a huge seller IMO for them, and the 1200 owners would all order one, along with alot of 800 and 600 owners. 

 

jesus dan you really crap all over a 1200, its 130hp stock compared to your 800 at 150hp, lol , and it won't need a set of pistons

[rockerdan]

jesus dan you really crap all over a 1200, its 130hp stock compared to your 800 at 150hp, lol , and it won't need a set of pistons

I guess it sounds worse then it is....lol

 

Remember it is my second choice, and I was litterally going back and forth between the 1200/800 a day before i spring checked it!

 

The more think about it, the more i feel i need to ride ANOTHER 1200....hoping maybe a shorty, cause the guys I rode maybe just was not right?   It seemed sluggish and heavy maybe due to being a gade?

 

anyway, for longevity and piling on the miles....i would be all over the 1200.....and I will do just that IF brp brings me a new 15 4tec,maybe an ACE 1330 that everyone keeps talking about....  after the cat debacle i wont touch a viper, and am really sad to see yamaha go that route.

 

Dan

[Blake G]

Well guys, the 800 R, in my 2008 GSX is 151 hp, I think the 800 etec in rockerdan's 2014 is something like 163, so that's quite a few more ponies than the 1200, with less weight. Not that I am criticizing the 1200, as I have never ridden one. I would think that 135 hp or so would be quite adequate, and the four stroke reliability, longevity  and other advantages mean a lot to some people.

 

Personally, now having a used 4 stroke (turbo) in a 2009 TZ1 (177 hp and 800 lbs dry weight), and a used 2 stroke in a 2008 GSX shorty (151 hp and 455 dry weight), I will be looking for 4 strokers going forward. But I am not a super agressive rider, and would not require the nimble handling of the 800 etec. Different strokes for different folks. Literally.

[jminor1]

From what I hear with a few tweaks the 1200 can surprise the 800's and yes the cat has engineering flaws but there are fixes for our lumber wagons as you say, a bit of overbuilding and updating of the chassis is needed for those of us not in the mid 150's for HP..I will be deleting my TCL and really going through my turbo this summer and I may put on a 14 chair with the added padding still heated of course!

[Irv]

I would go over and read dootalk 900ACE section....I have read alot about them and the guys are loving these sleds.  I actually thought it was incredible when we demo'd the gade verson over at northland rec....If i were you, id call them and schedule a demo of their 900ace gade and see for yourself if you think its got the balls.   They are on a lake so you will be able to open her up,and then have them take you on some trails too.   I think the trade off in less top speed will be the incredible MPG, guys on dootalk are polling 21-23mpg mostly, and that is US gallons!   Hard to imagine getting such great MPG.   It also comes in the XS chassis(same as mine) and feels just as light as my etecX.    The 1200 is in the very dated XR plastics, and seem very bulky from the helm.  

 

Best thing you can do is ride them all if possible.....You really cannot know for sure by reading or asking people, as sledding is such a personal preference.   

 

I read for yrs from guys I highly respect how great the 1200 was,  the XR forum guys pretty much worship their 1200s..lol   So when i finally got to ride one BACK TO BACK with my 800 etec on same trail,same day....i was really disappointed how much it lacked on power, and extra weight and poor feel compared to the 800.   

 

So what i learned is no matter how many people say something good OR bad about any sled, you gotta ride one yourself and decide.  The other thing is when demo'ng another sled, or riding a buds....many times the other sled might be poorly setup, so you need to know if a good pair of carbides, or a better setup skid/shocks would change the feel enough to make the sled feel better.

 

yrs ago with my apex people would tell me they are tanks and dont handle well.....but then id let them ride mine, and it railed nicely...So setup can have a ton to do with a sled too.   Many new sleds setup from factory are often "soft".  meaning small carbide,light susp all around.  So they most times will be pushy, and this is something you just know that is typical and can be tuned out.  

 

I think either way, the DOO Rmotion(in pretty much all their models now) is heads and tails above the others for ride quality.....Whichever model you choose from BRP you will be happy im confident.

 

Also Tues 4th we will know more about 15s....I honestly think DOO will update the 1200 finally(hoping) to a new larger 1330 ACE, with similar HP(135ish) and new XS plastics, with same weight and near same MPG as the current 900ace....this would be a huge seller IMO for them, and the 1200 owners would all order one, along with alot of 800 and 600 owners. 

 

 

I guess it sounds worse then it is....lol

 

Remember it is my second choice, and I was litterally going back and forth between the 1200/800 a day before i spring checked it!

 

The more think about it, the more i feel i need to ride ANOTHER 1200....hoping maybe a shorty, cause the guys I rode maybe just was not right?   It seemed sluggish and heavy maybe due to being a gade?

 

anyway, for longevity and piling on the miles....i would be all over the 1200.....and I will do just that IF brp brings me a new 15 4tec,maybe an ACE 1330 that everyone keeps talking about....  after the cat debacle i wont touch a viper, and am really sad to see yamaha go that route.

 

Dan

 

Great points/info Dan.

 

Just trying to decide if I should pull the trigger or not?

 

Thanks.........Irv