stoney

Same news in the automotive world too. cutting productions, models, staff, etc…. Not just sled or weather related. I see this as prudent as a business, but still sucks. Should see another half percent cut from prime early Dec….

Sharing as this can be useful to those looking at QC for the first time or looking for ideas.

Wonder if buying permit with or without QC insurance effects processing time. I thought you had no choice and ins was included that you could apply to get credited afterwards based on living out of province.

Bought mine on the 31st at around noon and number is 37775. for ref, below are number from last couple of years.....but 2024 did not start at 0.... 2023 permit ordered Oct 27, 2022 - permit number was 34,525 2024 permit ordered Oct 27, 2023 - permit number is 36,632

I thought @Nunz ordered QC permits and I was talking to a buddy the other day who said he ordered QC permits before the earlybird dead line (Oct 31), but nothing in hand yet. I am also thinking @scottyr would have ordered QC permit as well.

Received my paperwork/notification from TD for the next year and sled is status quo for another year.

Ya, I saw the dates and quickly looked at the report from 2023. https://www.ofsc.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/2023-Economic-Impact-of-Snowmobile-Trails-in-Ontario-Web-5.pdf Internally shared is great, plus being able to point people to the study is a great tool as well. 2022-2023 At A Glance Snowmobiling-related Economic Activity for Ontario: $3B – $6B Annually Expenditures by OFSC Snowmobile Trail Riders: $1.48 Billion Full Time Jobs Supported by OFSC Snowmobile Trails: 9,307 Taxes Generated by OFSC Snowmobile Trails: $538 Million (Barrie, ON. November 9, 2023) – The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) has released a new study, “The Economic Impact of Snowmobile Trails in Ontario”, based on expenditure data from the 2022-2023 season. This 2023 report clearly shows that the provincial network of over 30,000 kilometres of OFSC Prescribed Snowmobile Trails is Ontario’s most valuable recreational trail network and a key pillar of our winter tourism economy. As a volunteer-led, not-for-profit association with 181 member organizations, the OFSC manages these premier snowmobile trails, which connect snowbelt communities while providing safe, enjoyable, and environmentally sustainable riding experiences for Ontarians. The new study found that in the 2022-2023 season, expenditures by snowmobilers riding OFSC snowmobile trails increased to $1.48 billion, up from $843 million in 2019. In turn, these 2022-2023 expenditures resulted in an estimated $3 billion of snowmobiling-related economic activity for Ontario. Meanwhile, snowmobile trails directly supported 9,307 full time jobs in 2022-2023, while generating $538 million in taxes across three levels of government: $239 million in federal taxes, $258 million in provincial taxes, and $41 million in municipal taxes. Despite low snow conditions in some locations last winter, the $3 billion of 2022-2023 economic activity is almost double that reported in two previous studies: $1.6 billion in 2019 and $1.7 billion in 2014. Therefore, the new study estimates that OFSC snowmobile trails have the potential to generate a total annual economic impact of between $3 billion and $6 billion in any given season, dependent on factors such as weather. For the first time, the study also assessed the total monetary value that OFSC snowmobile club volunteers contribute to Ontario’s economy as more than $16.4 million annually. “This study reaffirms our position that Ontario’s winter tourism economy runs on snowmobiling,” said Ryan Eickmeier, OFSC CEO. “The economic impact of our snowmobile trails is especially important to rural and northern Ontario, and the contributions our volunteers make each and every year is truly remarkable. ” The OFSC retained Harry Cummings & Associates (HCA) Ltd to assess the impact of snowmobile trails during the winter of 2022-23, using the Ontario Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Sport’s Tourism Regional Economic Impact Model (TREIM). This study is an update to others conducted by HCA in 2014 and 2019, and also includes a breakdown of economic impact numbers for each of the OFSC’s 16 districts. A copy of the new report can be found here: 2022-2023 Economic Impact Study

For me I ordered on the 31st and other than a confirmation email, nothing else yet......but that was just 2 business days ago.

Awesome - thanks, Paul! I went to the website to see where it was or could be found vs. your link and I see it’s an embedded link under another article, “in the news”. Do you happen to know if this is something they include on radio or other forms of advertizing to get info out there to the people who wouldn’t navigate the OFSC site to find or locate these details? Pretty big gap in financial impacts that it has, 3 to 6 billion - that is surprising there is that large a delta year over year.

Lol, I knew it was a large number that until you bring it to light, it’s not taken as seriously as it should be. I mentioned this before, but making this number more easily publicly accessible/visible and a breakdown where the numbers come from would shed a massive positive light on this sport!

How much is that figure again that sledders add to the economy, tax base, etc.... - I thought I recall there was a member last year that said this was recently brought up as a focal point. 1 Mil really would be a small drop in the bucket....

Who owns all the ATV trails in the province that are shared between the two sports now? I thought it was crown land, maybe some is private - if private, you bring up government trying to control that, say bye bye to that land use.....that was a huge issue a few years ago when we saw all those sign about "hands off our land". For crown land, I know this has been mentioned a number of times, but if a sled trail runs on that, can anyone technically use it without needing to follow the OFSC guidelines during the sledding season or once OFSC gets approval for use of that land during the season, they become the caretaker/owner of it for the sledding season and the OFSC rules need to be followed/enforced?

Isn't Hay Days the biggest sledding event or one of them that is full of small vendors, big vendors, manufactures, dealers, grass drags, etc.....

Seems crazy, but considering location, is it…. Large corps can swallow that, small biz cannot and that is what sledding was about, but not so much anymore.

Maybe they need to move the Toronto show to say Barrie - rejuvenate things!

For me, any one that I know that has retired still doing work and I have talked to them about it, they say they are doing it for the people aspect and keeping busy.....would they say it was because they needed the money, not sure. My dad when he retired within a few years picked up a part time job at a local rental shop doing small repairs, maintenance, sales, etc....for him it was just that, get out and see people, keep busy, etc..... But I have no doubt there are some that need to do it to get by as well.

sounds very Liberal..... and FTR, I agree with your reverse psychology thoughts......

You hear that often, I think levels are just lower than ever before with the added users, but still not on the verge of closing - plus there seem to be more options for people to use as well than before since people are stepping up to help using other platforms. This is why part of me agrees with the bloc to increase the amounts for seniors - there are plenty that do just fine that have pensions, investments, etc....., but plenty that are not and need some added help. The number the bloc recently shared was 4 million Canadian seniors, 1 million in QC, so at least the same in ON, leaving the other 2 million spread across the remaining provinces/territories. But that would be a very large dollar figure to put out.

And some great opportunities for those that are not feeling the negative affects of inflation. Just look at the wealthiest people and how much their wealth has grown in the last few years.

Agreed and yes they do. From an insurance and weather stand point, not at all. But with the support from residents, governments, financial, etc…it could be closer to QC. I do not know what the OFSC does or does not do to lobby the government for support and in past history the answer seem to always be if you want to know, get involved - not very transparent or good for the sport, imo. Maybe they are and falls on deaf ears because that’s Ontario for you as an example - rather then remove barriers, we put more up, which sadly is tied to our insurance and provincial law systems… Of course all the non winter enthusiasts, which Ontario has a lot of, compared to QC, would wine and complain about public money going to the sport which are “a bunch of reckless drunk people” wasting our emergency workers time, even though it’s easily justified from an economic standpoint….and of course that above statement is false!

Province of QC is very different from ON in many ways. I don’t think Ontarians could be like Quebecers at all, nor do we have what they have in many ways as well. But for sure our province could support sledding more, especially in regions that can support the sport more frequently, like the northern parts and not the south, which I think that might cause some issues/conflicts, however the province I’m sure would then deal with criticism from other Ontarians, where in Quebec, they welcome and support it on a much bigger scale. Keep in mind QC receives the most in equalization payments, pays more tax on all purchases, pays more income tax, etc…

And vendors need to sell a crap load of stuff to make it worth their while to have a footprint at the show after you factor everything in.

Nothing to consider or look at for the jacket you were looking for? Haven’t been in a few years myself, maybe longer than I think it has been. If I go, it would be more for my son to see it than me at this point. It and I’d say the snowmobiling community is not what it once was not so long ago.

I’d say steal of a deal. But when you don’t use it at all, it does create doubts about buying one, I have some doubts this year since I never used mine last year at all, but those doubts are not at all because of the price. Im sure I’ll buy next week anyways and hope I use it this year…if not, at least I’ve supported the cause. Although this year I think I’ll not put the permit on my sled until I need to use it so I don’t need to remove it after not even possibly using it through the season. Should be a tax right off though….lol

I thought permit increase discussions and approvals would have to be done sooner than at the end of the previous season to be in affect since it requires MTO approval, that likely takes a bit of time. As for an increase this year, not sure why I thought there was…clearly I’m mistaken. I am a little surprised to hear on this forum people criticize the permit amount…even with the crappy seasons we have had…especially knowing what so many pay for a QC pass, sleds, gas, trucks, trailers, etc….$221 bucks is a small drop in the bucket all things considering.