News from the North

[Nutter]

ya,funny thing, look at the number of sled trailers traveling #11 north of New Liskeard, I guess they are just towing their sleds up and down the roads and not riding them. But then of course if there isn't 80 sleds an hour going across every intersection you don't deserve any ofsc funding that your club cannot raise on there own. The ofsc was suppose to provide a province wide trail system, so they said at one time......those days are gone. We are all expected to ride in over populated areas, nose to bumper because that is where all the permit buyers reside. Then there are guys like Big Reg and Groomer Guy that work tirelessly to complete a missing loop to their northern town......and why,if there was no sled traffic why would they care? They certainly don't put many miles on,they are to busy running a snowmobile club and maintaining trails that a few people say no-one uses. And Classic should be ashamed of his words in his previous post towards the efforts of the F trail....all that coming from a volunteer himself.

How long do you think the ofsc would last if we kept all the permit money generated in the south, in the south.....you know, like not send any money to the north.

Some of you people sound extremely selfish.

One more question to ask yourself, if the north was cut out of the system, how much money would the government kick into the ofsc? you see till a couple years ago it was a connected province wide trail system. The beginning of the trouble was at Thunder Bay.

Using permit slaes is no way of determining the number of sleds using any trail,much less the northern trails.

Any idea how much money the north recieved last season in provincial transfer payments ? ..... my calculations of the 09/10 funding proposal tell me districts 14, 15 and 16 alone recieved 45.1% of total provincial district transfer payments, to 14 other district that sum may already seem high enough to take from their permit buyers. Interestly enough Dist 17's numbers only alloted them 3.9% and 7.4% in Dist 13 in district shortfal payments.... sustainable local and tourism markets ?

Permit sales alone are not the only calculation used to gauge ridership, grooming hours and frequency also comes into play .... who's grooming for 1000's of sleds and who's grooming for 100's ? Provincial average is $120 hour to send a groomer down the trail, be it 100 sleds or 1000.

[revrnd]

Would I be correct in saying that the Quebec government/business community helps promote snowmobiling & the industry more than their counterparts in Ontario?

The reason I say this, look @ some of the maps/guide books for the northern parts of the provincce of Que' you've got 5 star establishments out in the middle of Pit de Arm, PQ that look like the Taj Mahal made of logs. I northern Ontario Cedar Meadows in Timmins & the odd chain motel might be the closest. The rest of the lodgings are just typical mom & pop motels w/ an average dining room. No offence meant to any advertisers or owners just making a point.

Also, I would have to say that the forestry industry in Quebec is suffering equally as the problems date back to the US softwood quotas (long before the current economic/housing mess). Mind you the high hydro rates in Ontario don't help as Mo from the Northern Lights in Wawa has spoken of. That probably came to mind when the Met Site in Timmins was closed & the refining operations transferred to Noranda. The politicians in NW Ontario have been screaming about the lumber companies logging in Ontario & trucking the logs to Manitoba for sawing.

Finally, 2 or 3 years ago I read an article in the National Post by some academic (who had probably never been north of Steeles Ave) about closing northern Ontario. He figured rather than attempt to prop up the economy & provide services in northern Ontario, it would be cheaper to relocate everyone to southern Ontario & retrain them (for what? our manufacturing economy is gone) or put them on welfare. Well you can imagine the reaction to that.

[crackher]

Finally, 2 or 3 years ago I read an article in the National Post by some academic (who had probably never been north of Steeles Ave) about closing northern Ontario. He figured rather than attempt to prop up the economy & provide services in northern Ontario, it would be cheaper to relocate everyone to southern Ontario & retrain them (for what? our manufacturing economy is gone) or put them on welfare. Well you can imagine the reaction to that.

I particularly like this segement of your post..So true there are too many people that want to cut, close and relocate but have never experienced the North...but the only problem is how long do we MAKE it sustainable. I mean really, how long can a province afford to pay for so many shortfalls that have roots in the north. I am not saying to get rid of them (i.e. as the NP article indicated) but economically speaking if you are multi-divisional business you cut the fat, shed the excess and streamline to become more competitive. I understand that the government is not a business, nor can it ever run like one. but there are some cases where trimming may be necessary. If there are a 100 sleds that ever use a particular trail and the Province, OFSC, et al have to pay for that section maybe it should not exist? Hell I would love to sled across Caledon, in Peel Region but guess what there is no trail and I live with it, I ride else where.

Case in point the Ontario Moose Tag Allocation System is an unfair practise, I'll explain.

100% of the available hunting tags each year are not available to 100% of the population. 5% of the tags are removed so that residents of the "North" can gain an advatage over the "south" (sounds a lot like the US civil war huh). The "Southerners bring trucks which need gas, camps that need supplies, people that need to eat and they run an entire hunting industry...sounds like sledding so far huh? Is this right NO...Why should the "South" pay for trails which do not get used all that much in the North. Remember I like having the opprotunity to ride these. But if I am never going to do it then why do I need to pay for it. Maybe we need a trail system audit of sorts to determine whether or not all these trails are in fact worth it. I think it is cool, but there must be a more streamlined more cost efficient way

[Nutter]

Finally, 2 or 3 years ago I read an article in the National Post by some academic (who had probably never been north of Steeles Ave) about closing northern Ontario. He figured rather than attempt to prop up the economy & provide services in northern Ontario, it would be cheaper to relocate everyone to southern Ontario & retrain them (for what? our manufacturing economy is gone) or put them on welfare. Well you can imagine the reaction to that.

I particularly like this segement of your post..So true there are too many people that want to cut, close and relocate but have never experienced the North...but the only problem is how long do we MAKE it sustainable. I mean really, how long can a province afford to pay for so many shortfalls that have roots in the north. I am not saying to get rid of them (i.e. as the NP article indicated) but economically speaking if you are multi-divisional business you cut the fat, shed the excess and streamline to become more competitive. I understand that the government is not a business, nor can it ever run like one. but there are some cases where trimming may be necessary. If there are a 100 sleds that ever use a particular trail and the Province, OFSC, et al have to pay for that section maybe it should not exist? Hell I would love to sled across Caledon, in Peel Region but guess what there is no trail and I live with it, I ride else where.

Case in point the Ontario Moose Tag Allocation System is an unfair practise, I'll explain.

100% of the available hunting tags each year are not available to 100% of the population. 5% of the tags are removed so that residents of the "North" can gain an advatage over the "south" (sounds a lot like the US civil war huh). The "Southerners bring trucks which need gas, camps that need supplies, people that need to eat and they run an entire hunting industry...sounds like sledding so far huh? Is this right NO...Why should the "South" pay for trails which do not get used all that much in the North. Remember I like having the opprotunity to ride these. But if I am never going to do it then why do I need to pay for it. Maybe we need a trail system audit of sorts to determine whether or not all these trails are in fact worth it. I think it is cool, but there must be a more streamlined more cost efficient way

The only ones that can make those decisions is the local volunteering permit buyers themselves, the OFSC has no say in what a club can keep open or not, each club that belongs to the OFSC is it's own corp and agrees to the provincial funding model and what their share is based on matrix points, it's up to them to decide what they can and cannot afford to keep open with x amount of money. The majority vote of the membership is now in favor of changing that funding model if a better one can be found ..... either way were still going to be dealing with same total amount of money (# of permits sold provincialy with short falls being payed for by clubs that sell more permits then they need to run their own trails).

IMO the importance of a province wide trail system is paramount to the health of the winter economy of many northern towns, and the success of OFSC it's self province wide, and the provincial gov knows this and contributes to help keep things going .... albet not near enough with what they recieve in tax spin off the trail system provides them with, $200 million+ anually and they kick back less then 2% of that.