stoney

Yep - there is a ton of support in this industry by good people that allow it to be what it is, regardless of the shortcomings! I am sure the extra few bucks a club might get from advertisers on trail maps, helps somewhere whether be fuel, tools, etc.... Which actually now makes me wonder with the new'ish template the OFSC uses for funding the clubs, does the advertisers moneys go into one big OFSC bucket or directly back to the club(s) that the advertiser is supporting, I would hope it goes directly to that club, but who knows now a days.

Thanks - I know they are still in circulation, I was more questioning if the advertising is still what it once was to help pay those expenses, maybe it is or maybe not. I have a friend who's only reason to get paper maps, usually at the sled show each year, is to see who advertises on them, so he can support those businesses.

Pretty sure it is noted on your policy reasons you could be denied insurance.

Well, of course - thankfully in this world we live in, so much is done via email that provides a trail to the two sides. But to make an allegation like this, I would hope any insurance company would need some good concrete evidence to deny a person.

Exactly, just takes one a$$ at any company to do that. I think why I would be inclined to make an issue of it, I guess depends on my mood and what’s going on in life at the time.

Is there not an internal avenue that you can take to challenge something like that so a bad apple like this can be dealt with or at least exercise an avenue to try and deal with that?

Guessing they figure some old fart rides that sled, what could happen.....lol That seems like a really good price for two with full coverage.

How much is this still relevant today? I do not see maps anymore, so wondering if those advertising dollars are what they once were - I imagine not. I am thinking there might or could be pop up ads on the app that can be bought instead, but I do think that is the case.....nor would I want them either Paper maps or not, still seem to be stopping the same amount, maybe more now for pee breaks actually....lol.

My 22 Doo 900T-R with full coverage is in the six hundred range - I do not have my policy handy, but I am guessing 650'ish. With TD as well.

I, just like many other used to do that - couple of years ago I embarked down the road of using the BRP app on sled trips and it worked great, basically completely stopped the driving down a trail that you were not 100% sure you were on the right one and the gas station only within the range that you had enough gas for....lol Local rides in areas we know, not required though. But running that Relive app is pretty cool though for any rides!!

It is on your phone actually, and if your sled has the option of the glove box with cell phone holder, it works great! The new GEN4 & 5 sleds with the newer gauges does also allow your phone to link to it and display the maps, but the source is your phone in all of this....where people rather have the GPS that is made for outdoor exposures without added accessories.

You are referring to markup vs. margin. Markup is multiplication and margin is division - margin is typically used in most businesses that I have dealt with. Agreed, so much is going up, but that is why the labour and material costs are increasing, because business' are seeing those increases that gets passed along. If my loaded labour cost was 35 and now 40 due to costs rising, and my target is 20 points on labour to keep profits healthy, labour sell just went up from 43.75 to 50.00. Same for material you buy to turn around and sell as services offered and the margin you need to maintain. But when rent goes up, utilities, etc....you either have that factored into your loaded labour costs or potentially increase margins or as you say, maybe break even with the extra profit you are making from the increased costs/increased sell.....or choose to make less money. Of course there is the time it takes to do things - everything takes so much longer it seems now. either people are slower, aging work force (which I think you mentioned actually recently) or added procedures to doing simple tasks that now take up time, so you now quote 1.25 hours for a task that used to take 1 hour.

Good for him and even better for you - perhaps some more KM this year, or out more and not necessarily a lot more KM, but enjoyment riding more often!

So, how about that used market....... Perhaps some folks trying to make up for less than ideal wages or their stupid spending habits/choices, so need to make up for it elsewhere. Just remember, if you devalue things, less profit is generally made with healthy competition, the higher things "cost", the more profit is made, generally speaking. Just look at the grocery chains and the profits they are making, theirs "costs" have gone up, no one can argue that, just like so many others, their margins have likely remained the same, like most business' would do unless forced otherwise to change, but a corporation cannot see higher revenue numbers without seeing higher profits, because you know what the equates too = less workers on their payroll..... 20 point on $100 is out the door at $125.00 to consumer 20 points on $110 is out the door at $137.50 to consumer Business just made an extra $2.50 simply because the "cost" went up. One extra costs that no one can deny is the cost of delivering products, that has seen more than one tax added to their costs from our amazing idiot PM as of late, so more tax at source that also means more tax on selling of end product that is out the door with a higher value, that is giving our government more and those business' more profit for those nice houses, cars, etc.... As for oil, I would suggest the BRP engine oil, filter and seal kit for your 900 ACE - I prefer to use high quality diff fluid for my chain case, that I usually have sitting around from doing my diff's on my trucks over the years.

If agreement is coming to a close on said date, should talks about next agreement not be discussed ahead of time than to ensure new requirements are met, which maybe it did (????), and at the same time open up discussions with other players who might also be able to meet requirements in that same time frame based on agreement end date. For me it doesn’t really matter, I use the ON and QC apps as well the BRP one and these meet my needs, but for others that have used GPS and expected too this year, to now hear this with I assume no prior notice, just doesn’t seem well thought out, imo.

So the OFSC had a player that was used but were not meeting a new criteria. I assume discussions were had to see if that player could accommodate? If criteria could not be met and there are other possible players, it would seem prudent to give those other players a chance to step up to the plate before this decision was made. I assume current gps can still be used to track your trail, route taken , etc…., but would need to be used in conjunction with the trail map app with most current trail route, status, etc …not ideal. Doesn’t appear to be the most well thought out decision, perhaps there is more to the situation that helps make more sense of it or why notice of this was not communicated.

I agree, it was not all one sided and they both gained from this, I just think Cat had more that was brought to the table on the snowmobile side. Yammi needed a new chassis, I assume they knew the market for them was not worth that investment to retool for a new one at that time, so who to piggy back off of vs. possibly shutting things down back than, I am guessing Cat was the only one of the three that saw greater value in that partnership with Doo and Poo so far out front with market share, maybe I am wrong though. Cat financially may have also needed and gained from that, not sure, but Cat would have gained some Yammi riders for sure, so win win......but I am guessing they also lost riders due to no new chassis, bigger cc motor, etc....themselves over the years. Was the partnership a short bandage fix before closing or if they saw the market share go up the last few years, maybe they had plan B, I doubt that though and of course that never happened clearly......only to be a fly on the wall.

No, I believe things started to get bad, than real bad with that idiot mcliar followed by that other liar….I know they all lie, some just much worse than others that cost huge. I don’t recall it being this bad before that. With precedent set now and no one looking to reverse things for “our good”, things aren’t getting better. But if he makes ya fell better to blame Ford too, I get that…lol

It is just another way to compare the two provinces. - ON always looking for reason to take away from people enjoyment all for the “good” for you and I - QC, and other provinces such as NB, are not looking at ways to put roadblocks up or take things away in these categories, just to get things done and move forward Ontario never used to be this bad, but it gets worse year after year. Stop making excuses for stupid people and the stupid decisions they make…..

I am sure some might think that, but IMO, I do not think so. Cat had the chassis - Yamaha did not Cat had the 2-stroke offerings - Yamaha did not Cat even switched from Suz to their own 2-strokes over that time frame and AFAIK, the Cat 2-strokes worked very well Cat had the 4-stroke offerings - Yamaha did too, apparently a better one, but from all that I have heard, Cats 4-stroke were solid motors too though Then there was the Yamaha Ski's, that most did not like. The Yamaha clutching, I have no idea if it was good or worst than Cat's, but did the T-cat not out run the Yamaha in the same chassis, which I would suggest is a clutch thing (I am not sure if that is accurate or not). They each had different gauges, that I think both were bad. I think the Yammi graphics were better. Did Yammi come into the production plant and help Cat with improving the builds over the years, - I have no idea personally, maybe they helped with that The Procross chassis improved each and every year, no matter what people said about how old it was, it was always being improved upon. Curious to know how or why you think the other way, the above are just my thoughts.

LOL - ya, that was the mindset no doubt, but as mentioned before, it also gave Yammi a life line, however when was the big question answered as to when the end would happen, that was likely not solidified until maybe 2 to 3 years ago....

I would think they have too and likely already engineered when they designed the new chassis, I cannot see how Cat did not know Yami was exiting the market, decision like that was not made on a whim. As for what is coming by others, I guess one of the great side affects of having a market with multiple manufactures, ideally all that are healthy - what is next...... I personally do not really care, but seeing Cat appear to be stepping up, is good for the overall sport.

I’d take that 3 grand and buy shocks for the 2023. I agree with you, always good to have a few more ponies, there for when you want to use it and be a man..lol

That is not bad - I think I paid 19K or so plus tax for my 2022 X, and the 2023 saw that price increase due to the silliness in the market. And buy new shocks if so inclined, than he is all set!