blue er Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 trails in the caygeon are were decent little icy on corners nothing unexpected though still decent amount of snow considering the weather lasrt couple days and trails were smooth, took e108 to b103 again trails were smoothe lots of snow jumped on b103 north and again trail was good odd thin spot at a road crossing but nothing to really bitch about, got better towards kinmount, after passing the sign in kinmount that informs us of being in hcsa trails took a nose dive, bumpier than hell lke i ran moguls most of the way to haliburton, got fuel and though it'll get better, thats right it got worse ended up at the B/E junction at which point the whole system sucked turned around came home tired of hearing how much sledding is going on and they can't keep up, not much traffic sunday only 6 sleds at mckecks for lunch, think no more hsca trails for me stick to twins over to paudash and bancroft trails this is the 5 weekend i done this rip and only once were the trails not bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 trails in the caygeon are were decent little icy on corners nothing unexpected though still decent amount of snow considering the weather lasrt couple days and trails were smooth, took e108 to b103 again trails were smoothe lots of snow jumped on b103 north and again trail was good odd thin spot at a road crossing but nothing to really bitch about, got better towards kinmount, after passing the sign in kinmount that informs us of being in hcsa trails took a nose dive, bumpier than hell lke i ran moguls most of the way to haliburton, got fuel and though it'll get better, thats right it got worse ended up at the B/E junction at which point the whole system sucked turned around came home tired of hearing how much sledding is going on and they can't keep up, not much traffic sunday only 6 sleds at mckecks for lunch, think no more hsca trails for me stick to twins over to paudash and bancroft trails this is the 5 weekend i done this rip and only once were the trails not bad I have issues with the club too. Not so much with the trails but with the operation of the club. Five years and five Presidents, a lot of directors that do little while others are taxed out. Other executive members that sit back while others are going full steam! That is the issue I have. Too much inconsistency! Like it or not, there is an explanation for the B103 into Hali being so rough. As you said past Kinmount it get's rough...look at the trails that merge along there past Kinmount. B112 from Minden, Tr7 from Kashagawigamog, Tr 9 from Paudash area. All flow a lot of volume into the B103 into Hali. That traffic also has to go somewhere and a lot goes up the TOPB and E trails and out from there. The club is grooming 5 nights a week plus daytime grooming runs and I personally have seen more grooming this year than in years past. Try riding other areas other than right through Haliburton! If some of these morons would stop playing Blair Morgan on the trails, things would last a lot longer too. Take a look at the snow color in the vicinity of Haliburton. As you get closer to town the snow is worn down and dirtier than other trails..why is that? Volume. Not because of lack of grooming or lack of attention! Tall Pines have some awesome trails and even close to Dorset they are thin and brown.. not due to lack of attention. Haliburton as Muskoka is a close destination for anybody in Southern or S/W Ontario to travel to for an average weekend. North Bay and beyond is too far for many families. I can tell you that the volume starts to build from Friday morning till Sunday afternoon! This past Friday at noon I was on Haliburton on errands and the parking lot at head lake was filled with sleds, trucks, SUV's and trailers. There was next to no room left for parking and that was noon on a Friday! My only real complaint with the trails is on Tr 4 as you approach Horseshoe Lake Rd. There is a dangerous mudhole and little has been done to warn sledders or fix it. The club has tossed in some hay bales to soak up the water and that is not good enough in this case. A decent section of corduroy would fix it right .. but I now understand that you need MNR permission for even that?? The club has done some great things too. Minden has a new trail, floating bridge, exceptional signage and improvements. It is now easy to get in and out of town! Sledding has returned to Minden. The club has also opened trail 2 over to Orillia as well. This had been closed for many, many years! Well miss you blu er but do enjoy the other clubs! Be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue er Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 fred i understand the traffic this trail recieves, it is been crap most of the winter, been out on fri sat sun morning no difference in trail quality and i am a early bird like being out by 7 or 8 the only one time did i get out there that it was nice, the north of kinmount is immediate as in crossing the road it's stuttered out trail 4 i seen the hay bails it near swallowed a vector that tried to pussyfoot it through the hole , I don't mind if there a little rough hell alot rough is ok when i am on the apex, but i had mt wife out for a nice ride on the venture gt and my hips and back are still sore from the pounding i took. I just wanted to do a nice loop of e to trail 10 to b and home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeXMAN Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 We were on B103 yesterday.We started in Kinmount at 9:00 ,we were the first to park .The trail was freshly groomed and we thought it would be nice to head north on this groomed trail to as far north as we could go in a half day( Whitney).Like blue said it was beaten so we decided take 9 to head over to Twins and Paudash which are always better and it was and it was busy over there .I will drop the sleds east of Kinmount in the future.That B103 beat on me so bad that it hurts to type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Guys let's be clear.. I am not saying these trails don't get bad..sure they do as do every other trail. However some people are making it out to be that the HCSA never grooms or does any trail work and that is not the case. It is the HUGE RIDER PRESSURE that flows in and out of Haliburton that kills these trails, coupled with the throttle jockeys at the numerous stop signs along the B103 which are a major pain! I am critical of trail 4 which to me is dangerous with the mud hole where hay was thrown in but that is a separate issue from grooming. I did almost 120 Km's today and EVERY trail was awesome, recently groomed and almost the best I have seen them in ages. Outlined below is the route I took and some descriptive pictures including the B trail from Haliburton to the E trail headed east. This was also awesome. The worst any trail was today was a 7/ 10. It is mid week (almost) and the trails were all groomed within the last 24 hours, so that proves the theory of rider pressure and rider style that is the demise of the trails, don't blame the club. They can not groom the B103 three times in a weekend. Rode today/ Tr 8, 4, B, E, 10, 11, 15 and about eight lakes on this loop Top B near intersection of 4, 8 and B TOP B outside Haliburton Intersection of B & E TOP E approaching Harburn Rd. TOP E and HCSA 10 HCSA 10 approaching Haliburton Lk. HCSA 15 near Halls Lk. As you can see every trail was mint today. 10, 15 had just been groomed! Again, I am adamant that it is the rider pressure and rider style that kills the major trails. The club is grooming 5 nights a week plus daytime runs on some of the major routes. It is too bad that some have bad experiences on some of the trails, but when the traffic starts to build on a Thursday night and by Friday afternoon the traffic easily quadruples it is no wonder why the trails get the snot kicked out of them. Haliburton is an easy destination, has lot's of amenities and conveniences and sees way more traffic than any other trail system in the vicinity. Any trail south of Coboconk or Burnt River are closed (red), as is trails near Norland so there is little coming into the B103 until you reach Kinmount. That is where the 440, B112, HCSA 7, HCSA 9 and the B all reach the B103! That is a lot of feeding into one trail. The trails south of Kinmount are feeding little traffic into the rail line. Look to the East..already a lot of trails closed. Look West to Orillia..Houseys rapids.."limited" and "closed". The HCSA has more "open" trails than pretty much anywhere in the vicinity and that is what people see on the ITG. Even Paudash has some "limited" trails showing up and I see some red too. Haliburton has become a 'hub" this Winter and IMO is doing pretty well given not a ton of snow and not a lot of fresh snow in hefty amounts. I am sure Muskoka is not much different. I'll bet that they too are seeing over average volume of traffic. Lots of limited and closed around Gravenhurst. The B103 is a boring trail IMO anyway. It's like the 401 near London. Straight and boring. You are better to drop in Haliburton and head north. Usually more snow and better trails. Just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue er Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Fred i would like to point out that i usually ride from the house not a big fan of trailering and if i do traiiler it's usally to the tmsc clubhouse or fenlon falls, i dont really like b103 either but it's a gateway trail to other better trails and i would rather spend 60 minutes sledding than 30 minutes driving ,just getting beat up this year , i wanted to sneak out for a mid week ride but looks like it may be all over by thursday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 About 3 weeks ago we rode from Apsley up to Lake St. Peter thru the Paudash system, then back on the railbed to L'Amable. The worst conditions were between the Wilberforce/Harcourt split & where TOP E turns west on the Peterson Rd. North & south of these locations the trails were fine. I think a lot of sledders just do that loop & it kills the trails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Fred i would like to point out that i usually ride from the house not a big fan of trailering and if i do traiiler it's usally to the tmsc clubhouse or fenlon falls, i dont really like b103 either but it's a gateway trail to other better trails and i would rather spend 60 minutes sledding than 30 minutes driving ,just getting beat up this year , i wanted to sneak out for a mid week ride but looks like it may be all over by thursday blue er I get that. It is a gateway. The state of the trails is not the clubs fault on this one, at least. It is ridiculous that there is a stop sign at every crack in the pavement or in this case the trail. It magnifies the washboard and is hard to manage. If people took their time accelerating and not spinning the track for five minutes we would not be having this conversation. I am not a fan of trailering either and was really just pointing out that there is some awesome trails out there. See this posting link It illustrates the volume Haliburton sees as quoted by the owner of the service station. You are either coming off the B103 to get to his pumps or you are headed towards the B103 to go south. Either way it proves the huge volume and rider pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeXMAN Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Fred you should have gone on b103 on Monday to see the condition of the trail to have a better idea of what we and others on other sites are talking about.People are still saying that the trail is still bad after they groomed it Monday morning.If this trail gets the traffic you say being a Gateway then it should be groomed more then the other club trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Fred you should have gone on b103 on Monday to see the condition of the trail to have a better idea of what we and others on other sites are talking about.People are still saying that the trail is still bad after they groomed it Monday morning.If this trail gets the traffic you say being a Gateway then it should be groomed more then the other club trails. I know how beat up it get's. Ever see how many ridiculous stop signs, and crossings there are along there compared to Past Kinmount? It get's beat up because heavy thumbed throttle jockeys spin their tracks and chew up the trail across there. Some sections are so bad that simple grooming cant fix them. By the way it is not me saying how much traffic that trail get's it is a proven stat. Did you read the article I linked to? With over 500 Km's of HCSA trail, how long do you think the annual fuel would last if they groomed the B103 every day? It's over 30 Km's to where Kawartha picks up the trail. Multiply that by two,for the return trip. As a rough estimate grooming three times a week = 180 Km's then multiply that by even a short season of 8 weeks of open conditions, = 1440 Km's of grooming for one section of a trail, and you want it groomed more? If you groomed it 5 times a week = 300 Km's per week, times 8 weeks minimum= 2400 Km's for one trail! Not likely, what about the rest of the system? Cut that grooming back to once every ten days? You can not blame the club for the state of this trail! I am not trying to argue, but people are not seeing the bigger picture. You guys rode a major trail that you figured should have been in tabletop condition, and it wasn't, so..who to blame...of course the club. Now maybe you wont ride it again or maybe you will. Your choice I will bet just about everybody that whines about this trail will still use it each year. Ever thus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4mysled Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 was on the haliburton trails a few weeks ago. Trails were terrible. Headed over to the Paudash trail system through E, it was like crossing into another world. As soon as you entered into the Paudash system the trails were smooth, well signed and a pure pleasure to ride. I understand the usage that the Eastern corridor gets, however when there is such a difference it cannot be all put down to usage, riders do not stop when you change regions and turn around and go back. I pesonnaly do not use the Haliburton trails that much due to the usual poor conditions. I will however go back to the paudash system and support the local businesses in that area as a result of the fine job they have done. I am not trying to put down Haliburton and related clubs I understand the volunteer issue and burn out and all that, it just makes me wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Paudash is a nice system. However, it does not see the traffic that Haliburton sees. If the club is not grooming and maintaining the system, then how do you account for these trails - http://ontariocondit...post__p__109344 ??? I am telling you people that these trails ramp up in volume from Thursday night, Peak on Saturday and thin out on Sunday. I did over 110Km's today and everything was table-top! Why? grooming and low traffic (mid week conditions). If you guys are only riding the major trails around the vicinity of Haliburton proper, you are going to encounter battered trails! The volume is accountable for that. Trails get better as you travel away from the village itself, as sledders hit other club trails, many travel lakes, and fan out in many different directions to widespread destinations. Why do people not get this concept??? I could have bitched and whined about the mess the Tall Pines trails were near Dorset today! (mid week and no grooming and they were black with dirt near the town). However I get that several trails convene in that area and it is heavily travelled. I expect that. You guys do not see what I see. I live here and see the loads of trucks, SUV's trailers and locals who travel and sled here on weekends. If you are a visitor, you see the few sleds you pass, perhaps you see twenty sleds at Mc Kecks when you are there for lunch or god forbid four or five sleds waiting for gas at the local pumps.. then you ride the B103 or TOPB or TOPE and wonder why the club is so shitty at maintaining trails. What you don't see is the literally hundreds of sleds that pass through Haliburton as a hub on a weekend or even close to a weekend. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and even some Mondays all see huge sledder traffic. If a restaurant (Firehouse) on the outer fringe of the trails sees 200-300 sledders on a Saturday...what do you think that the village of Haliburton sees? What does that traffic do to the trails? People who sled are not stupid. We are income earners in higher percentile of wage earners for middle class. Yet it puzzles me that people of this caliber live in a box that surrounds their immediate life and they look no further than the end of their noses for answers? Or in this case the front bumper of their sleds. So why you ask are the Haliburton trails so beaten, and the Paudash trails so nice, or Tall Pines?? Firstly believe it or not, Haliburton is somewhat of a hub destination. There are those on the RAP tour that stop here. Traffic flows in from south in the Kawartha's to Haliburton. What is to the north?? Nothing except Algonquin Park, so traffic the does not go through there ends up in Haliburton. What's East.. Addington Highlands, Matawatchan, Maynooth...not exactly premier destinations for people to travel to, no disrespect to those that enjoy or live in those regions. What's left..well this year for sure there is little or nothing open south of where the E108 approaches the Cameron Lake area. Looking West there is traffic coming from Bracebridge and Baysville that flows this way, and while I am at it... there is a lot of "red and yellow" in the Gravenhurst and Bracebridge area so a lot of people are coming to Haliburton. For many coming to Haliburton and vicinity (especially this year) is a lot closer than running further north to Parry Sound or beyond to find good trails. If you are coming from S/W Ontario Haliburton is a decent drive for a weekend without blowing more time to travel further north. Looking at the Tall Pines area, who also have great trails, there is also a little more snow up there in comparison to Haliburton which means more for the groomers to work with. At the end of the day, if you hate Haliburton that much, then simply don't sled here. That means one less sled to rip things up for the rest of us who do enjoy it here and appreciate what there is to ride on. There are lot's who do enjoy it here. Dont get me wrong there is lots of room for improvement. There is a trail that needs a lot of work that I refuse to ride on. It is however not a grooming issue rather than location, amount of road running, and water situation. Most of which is out of the clubs hands to a degree. Enjoy what is left...the countdown is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4mysled Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Fred, no one is disputing the fact that Haliburton sees a lot of traffic. My bone of contention is when you cross club boundries there is a vast difference in the quality of trails, my point earlier is when we left the Haliburton trails and went into the Paudash system the difference was immediate.Why is the difference immediate? When we left the Paudash system and were heading back the difference was once again immediate. I do not think anyone expects the trails in a major HUB town to be table top. I have read a fair bit of posts which all say the same thing, as soon as you cross into HCSA the trails become rough. Traffic cannot be the route of all the problems. I like to ride out of Barrie, and that trail system sees a heck of a lot of traffic. The trails do get beat up, but they also groom more often on the weekends due to the traffic, for example last year I saw the groomer on my start of the day and on my return trip(same day I was out for a long ride). I see this a lot on different forums about people getting protective of their home clubs. I do not think anyone is trying to bash the member clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The plain and simple response why there is a difference in trail systems is that the two clubs do not groom at the same time. Where one finishes and turns around...the other section gets groomed a different day. The club this year is grooming 5 nights a week with paid groomers, plus daytime runs when they can. Major trails are done Friday and Saturday nights. They cant groom 500 Kms every day. Could the different clubs coordinate grooming at the same time from one section to another? Who knows? It seems as though a lot of people target HCSA unfairly. There is enough to target them for legitimately. They need to clean up their Exec, and directors and keep a Pres for more than one year. Safe travels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue er Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'll be leaving for a ride today, heading to harcourt pretty sure I"ll take t he back way up from clubhouse to gooderham-wilberforce today, don't want to risk it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 From the HCSA website - Presidents message: Trail Conditions Updated: March 6 2012 Our first groom was January 7th on the B103, ( the rail line) but no consistent grooming until January 28th. Since then the groomers have been basically out on a regular bases 5 nights a week. The lack of cold and snow has been an issue all winter long. Thankfully we had no rain in February to contend with. The lack of snow in other snowmobiling districts did put additional traffic on our system and at times it showed. This past weekend mother nature and our grooming schedule were not working together and our trails suffered. All groomers were out Thursday March 1st, no groomers out friday March 2nd, too mild, nothing would set up. No groomers out Saturday March 3rd due to high wind warnings and poor visibility, both safety issues. All groomers out Sunday night March 4th and by Monday morning all trails were groomed. Hopefully we will be out grooming this coming weekend. Subject to weather conditions. Joachim/hcsa/president Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadoo Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have to chime in... They are making some progress for sure, and I hope Joachim can stay on for some stability and its his first year so there will be growing pains. 1 of hte issues is its the same old group, Chevedukas is still involved.. need not say more. This is the 2nd saturday in a row they have held off grooming due to "safety reasons". fact of the matter is, they were the ONLY club in the area NOT to groom this past saturday night/Sunday morning. Why couldn't they have gone out at 6-7am if it was that bad (it wasn't)? other clubs do that ALL the time.. They have a real problem with working around mother nature and probably the operators schedules. There are some older operators in that club and some real tight xxxxxx they need a lesson in trail building and grooming from their neighboring clubs. They are the worlds largest though, so god forbid someone give them advice or tell them what to do. they should be grooming 6-7 days a week, not every machine has to be out every day. their "schedule" is not working for them, because the trails and mother nature follow a completely different & often random schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'll Ride Anything Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I used to feel that Paudash was the best club and the model for others. They are #2 now in my book, OHSR (Old Hastings) is #1 for us. With the better snow conditions than most other areas this past winter we got many more riders than ever before. OHSR rose to the challenge with the usual outstanding conditions, many thanks. It is hard to ride other areas, we are spoiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have to chime in... They are making some progress for sure, and I hope Joachim can stay on for some stability and its his first year so there will be growing pains. 1 of hte issues is its the same old group, Chevedukas is still involved.. need not say more. This is the 2nd saturday in a row they have held off grooming due to "safety reasons". fact of the matter is, they were the ONLY club in the area NOT to groom this past saturday night/Sunday morning. Why couldn't they have gone out at 6-7am if it was that bad (it wasn't)? other clubs do that ALL the time.. They have a real problem with working around mother nature and probably the operators schedules. There are some older operators in that club and some real tight xxxxxx they need a lesson in trail building and grooming from their neighboring clubs. They are the worlds largest though, so god forbid someone give them advice or tell them what to do. they should be grooming 6-7 days a week, not every machine has to be out every day. their "schedule" is not working for them, because the trails and mother nature follow a completely different & often random schedule. As I have said, I have no issue with how they groom. The issue I have is the direction of the club and yes Canadoo, Andy among others need to go. There is a plethora of directors, many of which do ZIP and that hurts the club with the trickle down effect. Joachim has two different years under his belt now, so I hope he stays on and starts a succession plan. Clean house and the trails will be the end benefactor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadoo Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 As I have said, I have no issue with how they groom. The issue I have is the direction of the club and yes Canadoo, Andy among others need to go. There is a plethora of directors, many of which do ZIP and that hurts the club with the trickle down effect. Joachim has two different years under his belt now, so I hope he stays on and starts a succession plan. Clean house and the trails will be the end benefactor. I dont know how you can say there isn't a problem with how they groom or maintain trails when they didn't get out on a Saturday night, when the trails desperately needed it (after not being able to go out friday & rightfully so), and ALL the other clubs surrounding them groomed?most of the clubs up ther are grooming 6-7 days a week to keep up with traffic. Like you said there's more traffic this year, so groom more? they sold more permits this year vs the last few apparently and they have 6 industrial Groomers for 350k. their grooming patters are not acceptable, and at the end of the day the permit buyer cares only about having decent trails to ride. further to that, 2 weeks ago, most of the clubs weren't able to get out on the Friday night either due to weather. We rode from Fenelon up to the Wildlife for lunch and back. nothing had been groomed, but thankfully teh trails weren't TOO bad.... well the groomer had gone from Fenelon up to Kinmount and back sometime in the afternoon on Saturday. why? becuase they had to get the trails groomed. its not ideal, but it needed to be done & they did it. HCSA will continuously get slagged by riders because they are crossing many different clubs trails and HCSA more often than not has the roughest trails, and its not because of the terrain, its because they dont groom enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Canadoo, the club did not groom two Friday nights (nor did TP one of those Friday's) and one Saturday night due to a judgement call from the President, right or wrong?. BIG DEAL. I can honestly say that for the most part the Haliburton trails have been very good this year with respect to grooming, and relation to the amount of traffic. There is a water/ mud issue on Tr 4 near Horseshoe lake, that is beyond grooming. There is executive issues and director issues that need attention but overall the grooming has been much better all things considered. I will also be the first to criticize the club when it's due but I also praise when it is due too. They have overhauled the MInden access and every trail in and out. Added a floating bridge, re-signed to a huge degree, and are working on re-opening trail 2 to Orillia, damn good for one season! I have been out every day this week and the HCSA trails have been excellent, even today with the warm temperatures and brilliant sun. They have been on par with Tall Pines as I have been on every 60 series trail this week too. If you want a bitchfest...why is the D101B such a mess coming into Dorset? It has not been groomed in many days Why was it not groomed at 6 AM today? Obviously it sees a lot of traffic, no different from any other clubs and their high volume areas..I get that! Be reasonable, you guys are not grooming 7 days a week, every trail.I call BS if you tell me you are either. Your comment "HCSA will continuously get slagged by riders because they are crossing many different clubs trails and HCSA more often than not has the roughest trails, and its not because of the terrain, its because they dont groom enough." That is a lot of malarky. The immediate trails such as B103, B, E in the vicinity of Haliburton take a lot of abuse, more so that many surrounding trails and it is ridiculous to expect the club to groom these trails daily or more! The truth is people don't stop to think why the trail is rough. They jump to the conclusion that it is never being groomed. Never mind the 800+ sleds that travel through Haliburton or the ridiculous amount of stop signs at every drive and crossing on the B103 coming into town. Tell me what sledders do at a stop sign??? One of two things, speed up and blast through it, or stop and spin the track and slam the brakes on in 15 feet at the next stop! You tell me what that does to a trail?? How many sleds do you think need to do that before the trail is a washboard? The groomer would literally have to travel up and down the B103 all day to keep a handle on that! Give me a break. Kinmount and south does not have those dynamics on the trail at all. If those that want to bitch about the B103 and TOPB in Haliburton wish to continue their narrow mindedness that is your prerogative. Simply don't ride here! Problem solved. Strangely...two thousand other annual pass purchasers do. As do the 800 or so that travel through from Friday till Sunday. I did not hear too much complaining when the B103 was one of the first trails to open in the area ! Have yourself a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I rode family day weekend in hail. B103 was flat at 7 am, went out to the top b, flat as can be and not a single sled track on it. I rode trails in morning and lakes on the way home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadoo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Canadoo, the club did not groom two Friday nights (nor did TP one of those Friday's) and one Saturday night due to a judgement call from the President, right or wrong?. BIG DEAL. I can honestly say that for the most part the Haliburton trails have been very good this year with respect to grooming, and relation to the amount of traffic. There is a water/ mud issue on Tr 4 near Horseshoe lake, that is beyond grooming. There is executive issues and director issues that need attention but overall the grooming has been much better all things considered. I will also be the first to criticize the club when it's due but I also praise when it is due too. They have overhauled the MInden access and every trail in and out. Added a floating bridge, re-signed to a huge degree, and are working on re-opening trail 2 to Orillia, damn good for one season! I have been out every day this week and the HCSA trails have been excellent, even today with the warm temperatures and brilliant sun. They have been on par with Tall Pines as I have been on every 60 series trail this week too. If you want a bitchfest...why is the D101B such a mess coming into Dorset? It has not been groomed in many days Why was it not groomed at 6 AM today? Obviously it sees a lot of traffic, no different from any other clubs and their high volume areas..I get that! Be reasonable, you guys are not grooming 7 days a week, every trail.I call BS if you tell me you are either. Your comment "HCSA will continuously get slagged by riders because they are crossing many different clubs trails and HCSA more often than not has the roughest trails, and its not because of the terrain, its because they dont groom enough." That is a lot of malarky. The immediate trails such as B103, B, E in the vicinity of Haliburton take a lot of abuse, more so that many surrounding trails and it is ridiculous to expect the club to groom these trails daily or more! The truth is people don't stop to think why the trail is rough. They jump to the conclusion that it is never being groomed. Never mind the 800+ sleds that travel through Haliburton or the ridiculous amount of stop signs at every drive and crossing on the B103 coming into town. Tell me what sledders do at a stop sign??? One of two things, speed up and blast through it, or stop and spin the track and slam the brakes on in 15 feet at the next stop! You tell me what that does to a trail?? How many sleds do you think need to do that before the trail is a washboard? The groomer would literally have to travel up and down the B103 all day to keep a handle on that! Give me a break. Kinmount and south does not have those dynamics on the trail at all. If those that want to bitch about the B103 and TOPB in Haliburton wish to continue their narrow mindedness that is your prerogative. Simply don't ride here! Problem solved. Strangely...two thousand other annual pass purchasers do. As do the 800 or so that travel through from Friday till Sunday. I did not hear too much complaining when the B103 was one of the first trails to open in the area ! Have yourself a good day. Fred, you are hemoraging. calm down.the D101B was groomed Saturday night, so was 64. It is groomed on average 5-6 days a week, it is usually quite rough right around Dorset, even with the regular grooming. Imagine what it would be like if they didn't groom it every day? B103... and if for whatever reason it can't be groomed one day, it is groomed as soon as humanly possible. go look at the Tall Pines SPOT tracker.... it is posted online for anyone to view. why didn't haliburton groom saturday night or sunday morning? they say it wasn't safe, which is the real malarchy. why on the weekend before did they not groom saturday afternoon like KLSC and the rest of the clubs in the area? the reason is because they have a faulty grooming policy and couldn't get around their schedule to groom the trail when it needed it. Blame that on the executive if you'd like, that is where the decisions are made. Its really quite simple, get out and groom the trails. thanks for the lesson on trails, I've posted enough here for you to know I am involved with Tall Pines, so I understand how trails aren't just groomed, but built in the off-season. HCSA errs on the side of caution FAR too often, they chose to spend the RAP tour money on the B103, when all the other clubs put the money to the actual RAP trails.... I do see some improvement there though so I hope it continues, but nothing will change until they get their collective heads out of the clouds and out of the OFSC book and groom the trails. They have been doing an admirable job administratively, in their fundraising, etc & operate better than other clubs in those ways, but that doesn't matter when someone is out on the weekend and the trails aren't groomed. final comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Fred, you are hemoraging. calm down. the D101B was groomed Saturday night, so was 64. It is groomed on average 5-6 days a week, it is usually quite rough right around Dorset, even with the regular grooming. Imagine what it would be like if they didn't groom it every day? B103... and if for whatever reason it can't be groomed one day, it is groomed as soon as humanly possible. go look at the Tall Pines SPOT tracker.... it is posted online for anyone to view. why didn't haliburton groom saturday night or sunday morning? they say it wasn't safe, which is the real malarchy. why on the weekend before did they not groom saturday afternoon like KLSC and the rest of the clubs in the area? the reason is because they have a faulty grooming policy and couldn't get around their schedule to groom the trail when it needed it. Blame that on the executive if you'd like, that is where the decisions are made. Its really quite simple, get out and groom the trails. thanks for the lesson on trails, I've posted enough here for you to know I am involved with Tall Pines, so I understand how trails aren't just groomed, but built in the off-season. HCSA errs on the side of caution FAR too often, they chose to spend the RAP tour money on the B103, when all the other clubs put the money to the actual RAP trails.... I do see some improvement there though so I hope it continues, but nothing will change until they get their collective heads out of the clouds and out of the OFSC book and groom the trails. They have been doing an admirable job administratively, in their fundraising, etc & operate better than other clubs in those ways, but that doesn't matter when someone is out on the weekend and the trails aren't groomed. final comment I used my comment about the D101B as an analogy as to why the B103 is rough also. So if the D101B is so heavily traveled, why not groom it every day as you expect the HCSA to do with the B103. Obviously your policy of 5-6 days a week is not enough! Sound familiar? I am well aware that you are involved in the TP club, you of all people should see the challenge of the B103. High traffic areas get battered, I understand ...do you?. I am tired of trying to get people to understand why that B103 in particular the final stretch into Haliburton is so beat up. You guys fail to see that there are how many stop signs, how many trails merge onto there?? Some stop signs are less than ten feet apart! That creates a washboard effect. As to the President cancelling a couple grooming operations, that is his call. He has only served one and a half terms so I think his decision to err on the side of caution is reasonable to not risk groomer operator safety (there are several new and very inexperienced groomer operators this year), or risk damage to a groomer itself. He obviously had his reasons. BTW you referenced the Spot Tracker for your groomer. Where is the link to that? It does not appear on the TP website. Nor does the poker rally results? website says to look in that section but all there is are pledge sheets and a ad poster??? What's with the website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Can't everyone get along. If you want the b103 smoother maybe we could lower the speed limit to 20km/hr and enforce it. That would defiantly help, since most days you can't go faster anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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