Canuck Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If Canada follows the U.S. 'lead', there may soon be more ethanol in our fuel. I wonder what "helping fuelling stations install.. blender pumps" will mean to our already fragile gas station network. Here's an extract from Soundings Magazine: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency approved the first applications for the registration of ethanol for use in making gasoline that contains up to 15 percent ethanol, bringing us “another step closer to consumers being confused by the offering of E15 at their local gas station,” according to Cindy Squires, chief counsel for public affairs and director of regulatory affairs for the National Marine Manufacturers Association. “Registration of ethanol to make E15 is a significant step toward its production, sale and use in model year 2001 and newer gasoline-fueled cars and light trucks,” the EPA said in a statement. To enable widespread use of E15, the Obama administration has set a goal to help fueling station owners install 10,000 blender pumps during the next five years. In addition, through the Recovery Act and the 2008 Farm Bill, the U.S. Department of Energy and the U.S. Department of Agriculture have provided grants, loans and loan guarantees to spur “American ingenuity on the next generation of biofuels,” according to the agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Now that one does suck. And funny thing I saw some one from the car companies sying that vehicles that are not rated as Flex Fuel compatible will have major fuel system issues. With an E15 fuel. Just a few months ago. Most if not all cars and trucks built after 2009 are Flex Fuel rated. But sleds aren't, motorcycles aren't, ATVs, boats, need I go on. When are we going to stop running our cars on food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 When are we going to stop running our cars on food. Yellow corn, used for ethanol, isn't food. Unless you call dipping it in acid and breaking it down into something barely digestible (aka HFCS) food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Yellow corn, used for ethanol, isn't food. Unless you call dipping it in acid and breaking it down into something barely digestible (aka HFCS) food. What else could be grown in that feild? It could be food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Bio diesel works quite well. I would be buying things like Sea-Foam in large jugs form now on to protect your investments. Mossy also has an excellent Amsoil product (name escapes me)..but you can bet that as the ethanol creeps up higher, there will be products to combat it. The 10% right now should be able to be handled by any sled, ATV, outboard or other small engine of newer design. http://news.carjunky...ds_gas356.shtml Another good read.. http://mn.gov/commerce/weights-and-measures/images/E20Report.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 What else could be grown in that feild? It could be food. There are not too many options for using the equipment grain farmers already have, without maintaining a suitable rotation, which would lead to all kinds of other problems. Growing non-grains, like, say, vegetables, in the rotation sounds interesting, but the multi-millions of dollars in infrastructure needed to get started make it prohibitive for most farmers. It's easier to grow corn, and if someone wants to make it into fuel, even better. Research is one thing, but I'm not sure the government needs to be involved in forcing it though. I do find that a little concerning. The market should be able to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Bio diesel works quite well. What are you running on biodiesel. Personally the stuff sucks. First they started reducing the sulphur content on diesel and when you do that you reduce the lubricity of the diesel fuel significantly. Then you add biodiesel to the mix. In the United States the sulfur level of diesel fuel that is used for on-road purposes is limited to 0.05% by weight. This limit was mandated in October 1993 as a method to decrease particulate matter emitted from diesel powered vehicles. With the introduction of mandated Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) low-sulfur diesel fuel, fleet operators began to encounter premature wear and/or failure of injector pumps in increasing numbers. Pump manufacturers such as Stanadyne and Bosch began recommending the use of lubricity additives to alleviate the serious damage that the reduced sulphur content of low sulfur diesel was causing to their injection pumps. Biodiesel increases the susceptibility to water molecules being absorbed into the fuel rather than simply a layer within the tank. The higher the perecentage of bio component the higher the susceptibility to water absorption. This will further decrease the lubricity of the fuel and significantly shorten the shelf life. It is ecpected that the EPA will require 40% bio content in diesel fuel by 2015. If you are having good luck with it you might be one of the lucky ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 There are not too many options for using the equipment grain farmers already have, without maintaining a suitable rotation, which would lead to all kinds of other problems. Growing non-grains, like, say, vegetables, in the rotation sounds interesting, but the multi-millions of dollars in infrastructure needed to get started make it prohibitive for most farmers. It's easier to grow corn, and if someone wants to make it into fuel, even better. Research is one thing, but I'm not sure the government needs to be involved in forcing it though. I do find that a little concerning. The market should be able to decide. So farmers don't feed cities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 As for the bio diesel yes it does work and it will pass an emmissions test with flying colours but have you seen the price of the stuff? And you can't run it in the the colder temps it will gel like crazy. We use it in our recycling process plant. The exaust smells like a bbq grease fire. The name of the fuel additive is quick shot. It aides the phase separation in ethanol contaminated fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So farmers don't feed cities? It still leaves a couple of rotations of food that people can eat. Not to mention that the byproduct of ethanol is a decent food source for the production of meat, which then can also be consumed by humans. An important point oft-missed: Even if ethanol itself is energy neutral, the alternative has been to grow the crop anyway, and feed it to animals whole, providing no offsets for the oil used. And while I realize you're just kidding around, it's actually quite pertinent. The whole "Farmers Feed Cities" campaign intended to bring to light the poor US food policies, including corn overproduction through subsidization, which directly lead to these ethanol policies. I hope anyone who is against more ethanol in Canada now was rallying with the farmers back then. This is exactly what they were fighting against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Doesn't matter if the corn is people food or not. You only get 30-35 gallons of Ethanol from every acre of corn. So how much engery does it take to cut down an acre of corn, ship it, and process it in to Ethanol. I'm sure it's a lot more engery in that engery out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cehyoopers Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Doesn't matter if the corn is people food or not. You only get 30-35 gallons of Ethanol from every acre of corn. So how much engery does it take to cut down an acre of corn, ship it, and process it in to Ethanol. I'm sure it's a lot more engery in that engery out. have you studied the ins and outs of oil production in the west lately?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I wish the manufacturers would go back to having ignition switches that could be set from low or high grade fuel, Im sure they could map a igntition curve and injector pulse that is suited best for ethanol bend fuels. Looking at a 4-stroke machine so I no longer need to be adding oil, but now I need to add fuel additives so then engine is protected? Where is the convenience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 You only get 30-35 gallons of Ethanol from every acre of corn. And food for animals. Historically, that same crop would just be fed to animals whole. That's a net gain of 30-35 gallons of fuel for every acre, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I wish the manufacturers would go back to having ignition switches that could be set from low or high grade fuel, Im sure they could map a igntition curve and injector pulse that is suited best for ethanol bend fuels. Looking at a 4-stroke machine so I no longer need to be adding oil, but now I need to add fuel additives so then engine is protected? Where is the convenience? They do, it's called a knock sensor all EFI 4 stroke engines have them just for this reason. If you have a lower quality fuel the knock sensor detects the poor ignition and adjust the engine timing as needed. have you studied the ins and outs of oil production in the west lately?? Hey I'm not saying its any better but we could be looking at better non-dino fuels Google oil from algae. You can get 20,000 gallons of fuel per acre in the same time it takes to grow corn. Because the algae only takes 3 weeks to gown to a point it can be processed unlike corn that takes months. And food for animals. Historically, that same crop would just be fed to animals whole. That's a net gain of 30-35 gallons of fuel for every acre, no? No because now you have to grow extra to feed the animals we eat. Plus the massive amount of electricity it takes to make fuel out of corn. It's a masive output of engery for a very little engery in return. Somewhere under 5% engery out for engery in. Oil is up around 30%, still sucks but in the long run oil is better for the environment than ethanol. It's like thinking your hybrid car is better than a straight gas car of the same size. That battery causes a massive carbon foot print to built and dispose of it over its 10 year life. Much bigger than a straight gas powered car of the same size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Automatic system you say? That's cool! My old 2stroker just let's me know lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 No because now you have to grow extra to feed the animals we eat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewer's_spent_grain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewer's_spent_grain More reason to drink more beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 It still leaves a couple of rotations of food that people can eat. Not to mention that the byproduct of ethanol is a decent food source for the production of meat, which then can also be consumed by humans. An important point oft-missed: Even if ethanol itself is energy neutral, the alternative has been to grow the crop anyway, and feed it to animals whole, providing no offsets for the oil used. And while I realize you're just kidding around, it's actually quite pertinent. The whole "Farmers Feed Cities" campaign intended to bring to light the poor US food policies, including corn overproduction through subsidization, which directly lead to these ethanol policies. I hope anyone who is against more ethanol in Canada now was rallying with the farmers back then. This is exactly what they were fighting against. Crop circles? lol! JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 More reason to drink more beer So we agree. Bring on the ethanol! Dweese has the first round, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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