Bubblers, Another Hazard to Watch For

[revrnd]

A friend & I were talking about bubblers a couple of weeks ago. Not sure if there are any on her lake, but she doesn't like the idea of them.

http://www.cottagecountrynow.ca/news/article/1291652--opp-cautions-owners-of-dock-bubblers-of-possible-charges

[SlowTouringGuy]

There is quite a controversy about them around Muskoka. I would want one if I had dropped large coin on building a boathouse. But many do not properly cordon off the area around their bubblers with warning signs or caution tape or they set bubblers so aggressively that much larger areas of ice than necessary are removed. There is an argument that bubblers only need to be activated during ice-out (debate) and there is an argument that bubblers should be on timers to activate them for only a certain number of hours per day to keep the ice weak around the piles. Whatever the case may be there are actions in front of agencies to have the warning light on bubblers changed from Red (which could be confused as a tail light in snowy conditions) to Amber.

I'm not sure why your friend doesn't like bubblers. Maybe its not the bubblers she doesn't like; rather, more likely, she doesn't like the manner in which some bubblers are being deployed.

[revrnd]

I guess you've corrected my post. Yes the "incorrect" use of them. She's got a dock supported by a stone crib & she's never had issues w/ the ice damaging her dock.

[Doonut]

Criminal code of Canada C46, subsection 263.

read it, know it. If you go into a bubbler hole, it will come in handy for the court case.

[blue er]

ther is only one that i know of on sturgeon lake where live and the owners have large open water hazard sign posted right in front of it can't miss it bit then the open water is about 2-3 ft from there shorline at best

[b-bry]

There is quite a controversy about them around Muskoka. I would want one if I had dropped large coin on building a boathouse. But many do not properly cordon off the area around their bubblers with warning signs or caution tape or they set bubblers so aggressively that much larger areas of ice than necessary are removed. There is an argument that bubblers only need to be activated during ice-out (debate) and there is an argument that bubblers should be on timers to activate them for only a certain number of hours per day to keep the ice weak around the piles.

I'll comment on the ice-out part. In my case, our dock (on pipes) and boathouse moved inland 6 inches every winter. The boathouse is now at least 5 feet closer to shore than when it was built. The reason is that the ice sheet on the lake expands during the winter, moving everything it's attached to. We've witnessed our dock pushing into our patio (2x2 concrete patio slads), moving them at about the pace of a minute hand on a clock. This was mid-winter during a cold period. No wind, just ice expansion. On a cold night you can hear the "booms" of the ice expanding and cracking. We had to cut 6 inches off the shore end of the dock every year. Now with a bubbler type device I have a bit of open area and no more problems, 4th year in a row.

Ours is marked with a red light, as are all the others I've seen on our lakes. When I'm on the ice at night, I avoid anything near a red light, but then again, I have a normal IQ, unlike some of these idiots out there.

Let the gene pool thin itself. Natural selection works.

[Domino]

The issue is not the use of bubbles, but the abuse.

There is a bubble on "D" trail at the south end of Kahshe. The opening is 4 times the size of the boat house now with no end in site. At this point why not turn it off?

Thanks Doonut for the reference. I was thinking about this last night and commented that any person who knowingly pl;aces people in danager by the use of a Bubbler should be liable. I'm not referring to the bubblers that have warning lights and extend slightly past the piles, but the people who open up large parts of the lake because they think they are entitled.

I believe that something should be done before we lose more lives because of the numbnuts that open up the lake for no good reason.

[Canadoo]

I'll comment on the ice-out part. In my case, our dock (on pipes) and boathouse moved inland 6 inches every winter. The boathouse is now at least 5 feet closer to shore than when it was built. The reason is that the ice sheet on the lake expands during the winter, moving everything it's attached to. We've witnessed our dock pushing into our patio (2x2 concrete patio slads), moving them at about the pace of a minute hand on a clock. This was mid-winter during a cold period. No wind, just ice expansion. On a cold night you can hear the "booms" of the ice expanding and cracking. We had to cut 6 inches off the shore end of the dock every year. Now with a bubbler type device I have a bit of open area and no more problems, 4th year in a row.

Ours is marked with a red light, as are all the others I've seen on our lakes. When I'm on the ice at night, I avoid anything near a red light, but then again, I have a normal IQ, unlike some of these idiots out there.

Let the gene pool thin itself. Natural selection works.

Moderated by Slow Touring Guy: Removed a post that was not appropriate for Ontario Conditions.Com

If you would care to try again, Canadoo, you may; but please refrain from personal insults.

[scrummage]

"I just love it when humans, so arrogant and self absorbed fail to look at the most simple ideas or concepts like you have." You'd think that Canadoo, looking down on us lowley humans from his spaceship, would notice that B-Bry's red light is 10 feet (3m) off the ground and that his bubbler is controlled by a thermostat and timer. Although the trail is on the opposite side of the lake wackos cross the the lake to run across the small patch of open water (there's a HUGE sign too) over his lawn and back again.

BTW he's been cottaging and sledding all his life at the same spot.

Lighten up!

[b-bry]

Moderated by Slow Touring Guy: Removed a post that was not appropriate for Ontario Conditions.Com

If you would care to try again, Canadoo, you may; but please refrain from personal insults.

As I was finishing my reply below, I see the moderator deleted Canadoo's post, but for Canadoo's entertainment, thiese are my comments to him/her:

"Sounds like you have limited experience snowmobiling, maybe just at night. And even less cottaging."

It's interesting on how you viewed my comments on this topic. I certainly didn't think I was in any way offensive.

FYI, I have been sledding since 1966 (Snow Cruiser that my dad bought). I haven't been night riding that long, though. Didn't start that until around 1972 when the SkiDoo Olympic 399's came out and were a bit more likely to get you home after a long ride. I've been on the same lake in the same spot since 1963, so I know the area. I don't just stay there once a year - I own it, and though I don't live there I manage to spend a lot of time there. Last year I managed just over 100 days, so I know of what I speak.

"Boathouses have been a staple (unfortunate IMO) on muskoka lakes for over 100 years. I stay in 1 on Hamer Bay lake joe every summer. Its been there for over 50 years, no bubbler. Nobody used bubblers 10-20 years ago."

The boathouse in question has been there since 1964 - my Dad built it. It's a modest structure, not one of those grand edifices such as you see on Lakes Joe, Muskoka or Rosseau. Maybe it's one of those monsters that you say you stay in. Mine doesn't have dozens of tons of rock under it, nor is it built on heavy steel pylons driven down to bedrock, but we've managed to keep it together for close to 50 years. Every year the ice has caused damage to some degree and quite frankly, I'm tired of fixing it. The fact that it's straight and level while every other similar era boathouse on our lake has fallen down or at least well into the process, is a testament to my efforts. The "bubbler" technology is a godsend to folks like me.

"And RED light is simpky idiotic, what color are tail lights? NOT smart bud, actually incredibly DUMB & potentially liable."

It find it strange that you think a red light is idiotic. Check out the dictionary definition of what a red light signifies:

red light n

1. (Engineering / Automotive Engineering) a signal to stop, esp a red traffic signal in a system of traffic lights

2. a danger signal

3. an instruction to stop or discontinue

There is a 4th meaning, as in "red light district", but I'm assuming most decent folks would not mistake my boathouse for a brothel.

As for my last comment on thinning out the gene pool: well if you've read my other posts, you would know that I have little tolerance for stupidity. I think most folks on this forum also know when I have my "tongue-in-cheek".. I certainly wish no misfortune on anyone, but when people make DUMB mistakes, I tend not to feel too sorry.

Actually, life would be a lot less interesting if we didn't have DUMB people to laugh at!

[revrnd]

Actually, life would be a lot less interesting if we didn't have DUMB people to laugh at!

The only problem w/ this is that everything in society gets "dumbed down" for those that can't manage things on their own w/o screwing up. AKA, the blameless society.

[b-bry]

Just for the record, there are two kinds of "bubblers". First are the actual bubblers where air is pumped down in tubes and it bubbles up, carrying warmer water with it. The other type (what I use) is an underwater motor with a propeller. This type pushed the warmer water up.

I can't speak for the bubbler type (I chose not to purchase that type due to the potential freeze-up of the air tubes if the power is cut), but I will comment on the propeller type.

Mine is on a thermostat and a timer. It won't even turn on above freezing, and I can set 15 minute increments on a 24 hour cycle. I run it as little as possible partly because I have modest means to pay for the electricity. I'm able to adjust the run time as needed every weekend, depending on the temperatures, so I keep as little water open as possible. However, someone who can't be there regularly must choose a run schedule that can handle the coldest probable weather. These things open up very little water when it's really cold, but can open huge areas when the temperature is hovering just under the freezing mark.

This past weekend I had more open water than I wanted or needed so I backed off the run time. The previous weekend, I'd had it set for too little time & I froze up more than I wanted during the week.

The point I'm making is that you can't just assume that an individual with one of these devices is trying to open up the whole lake. Maybe they're just not there often enough to keep it perfect.

In the daytime, it's hard to miss some open water around a dock or other structure. At night, if you're over-driving your headlight (especially when you're not following an existing track), maybe you're going too fast.

On a side-note, back in the 70's and 80's there were no trails in my area. We ran the machines wherever we could, blazing a path of our own. Everyone I knew carried some bright rags with them. If we left a track under something we needed to "duck" under, we'd tie off a rag as a marker for the next guy (like when we'd drive under a hydro pole guy wire). That way, someone else following our track would be warned. When we drove at night, we'd only follow a path we knew something about, and tried our best to not over-drive our headlights. That kept us out of trouble and that's partly why I'm still here today still sledding.

That's just my take on it.

[b-bry]

Criminal code of Canada C46, subsection 263.

read it, know it. If you go into a bubbler hole, it will come in handy for the court case.

I checked this. Here it is and note that these two clauses appear sequentially in the Code:

263. (1) Every one who makes or causes to be made an opening in ice that is open to or frequented by the public is under a legal duty to guard it in a manner that is adequate to prevent persons from falling in by accident and is adequate to warn them that the opening exists.

Excavation on land

(2) Every one who leaves an excavation on land that he owns or of which he has charge or supervision is under a legal duty to guard it in a manner that is adequate to prevent persons from falling in by accident and is adequate to warn them that the excavation exists.

So making a hole in the ice is the same as making a hole on your property. It needs to be marked in an "adequate" manner, and I agree totally. Not a big deal IMHO.