Panther340

No storm here ...clear ( Sault ...Echo Bay area) they are calling light snow maybe Thursday.

Isn't that a " 705 Trucks " sticker on the back

Is it possible that one other factor that worries private land owners ( including railways) is that OFSC trails and maps and word of mouth of where trails lead can cause other users ( eg Dirt bike ATVs in summer) or cross country skiers etc etc to be on the trails even without permission......thus worrying private land owners and their lawyers (maybe even municipalities ) as to what risks they are exposed to. ....thus they start questioning OFSC insurance coverage....even though in theory it is not beholding on OFSC to insure these other users.

Am I correct in realizing that finding a 300 Tundra from mid 2000s will be difficult? MY Brotherin law had a 2007 one back then. It seemed perfect for narrow bushtrails like I have to my sugar bush and has reverse and fairly light and long track. I want to replace my heavy 1998 340 Cat. and sadly with no reverse. Is there another manufacturer that has a model similar to those Tundras from back then that I can watch for on Kijiji ?

Sault and Echo Bay were just informed the snow storm will miss us and stay east of us. So Blind River Elliot Lake Sudbury etc will get instead. Although North of Sault is Forecasted to get lake effect snow somewhat.

The power was out for over 7200 customers in Sault area since Monday. But they have most back on line today So much freezing rain and ice pellets trees down all over. Many of those hangover ice loaded trees over the trails I bet. So be careful.

Check the link I provided earlier on this topic page.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/420703/canadian-snowmobile-registrations-by-province/ So then 02sled then that must be what this statistic site did.

Yukon ? Are you saying that it was a data collecting program that was scrapped because it was realized it was useless data ? Because I don't see how that data would be able to be extrapolated to " total registered sleds". Maybe it would reflect southern ontario sled numbers given limited trails.....but even there it still would miss the many rural and farm use sleds......and of course it would totally be inaccurate for Northern Ontario and all the crown and private land use not on Ofsc trails. Thoughts ?

Revrnd.....I am seeing now the potential confusion with how many snow machines registered in Ont. When I googled it ....I found it on a statistics canada site broke down by province . But maybe that number they quote is how many plates stickers were purchased in 2018 for new sleds or renewed ......but at least up on north here you used to be able to buy multiple years And some might do that instead of going in every year....so then you need to guess how many would purchase multiple years. So maybe that explains the 300,000 sled number you had seen hat was questionable. Of couse that skews my numbers too if that statistics site I got for Canada did not take that into account. Either way you need to subtract the dollars no longer obtained from the 85 or 90 thousand annual ofsc permits. If they too just need to buy $100 plate sticker annually instead of 190 or 200 $ now annually.

Ok lets bring some Ontario based math to discussion to get realistic about how much new money would come in if annual registration plate money was used Lets assume gov gas it be annual reg plate is $100 . And lets assume all of the $100 was given to ofsc ( it wouldn't be all but lets assume best case) So stats Canada shows in 2018 there was 155,000 registered snow machines in Ontario. And lets assume 85,000 are Ofsc permits per year. Lets assume 15 percent of the 155,000 are exempt eg natives, ice fishers, remote rural, trappers lets assume another 10% are machines worth less than $1000 where owners like me won't register anymore. That leaves maybe 31,250 machines where new money of $100 per machine goes to ofsc ....so 3.12 million added....but the 85,000 ofsc permit holders would only be giving ofsc 100 per year instead of 200 . SO 8.5 MILLION LESS. Even if my exempt numbers are inflated somewhat it is a loss to ofsc unless plates were $160 or more each year and that wont happen.

I agree 02sled ...... we have debated this too much in past and it got heated too much. But considering the math I Expressed above..is it really worth the alienation of all the other non ofsc trail owners ......it exchanges one problem for another. ( and ofsc is aready subsidized some)

I looked up demographics of Manitoba and applied it to the 35000 reg sleds in Manitoba. I see over 15% are native or metis and considering they are high sled use owners. Now apply all the other exempt owners that would not be subject to mandatory $100 plate per year. And you end up with maybe 20 % exempt. ( roughly 7000 of the 35000) So that leaves the 19000 trail rider owners paying $50 less per year . ( so loss of $950000 incoming) but a gain of 9000 owners forced to pay $ 100 . So gain of $900000) So net loss of 50000...now take out process costs etc gov takes and you see it is at best a loss not gain after exempt riders applied. SIMILAR math would need to be applied to Ontario and any little gain in funds from Gov played against backlash from non trail owners.

You are so right Sksman. I have never used a OFsc trail but enjoy the sport and live in a rural area where snowmachines are allowed on roads. I should not have to subsidize a sport that cant enforce their rules. I respect the OFSC but they do not represent hundreds of thousand of non trail riders. I also see how many here admit their trail pass costs not enough and if more could better cover enforcement. Manitoba is going down a slippery slope. Whats next ...ATV plates increased to cover ATV trail grooming ? Many winter sports are required to cover all their costs eg downhill skiing where hill pass is over $ 60 for 8 hrs of skiing. Whereas Ofsc pass is under $200 for over 60 days on any trail . Lets be realistic and consider better ways to enforce trail use and improve / expand your sport without causing a hateon from other snowmachine owners .

Are these summer dirt roads that were built by loggers ? Then they are kindly shared with OFSC ? And now when they are used again by loggers ?

First world countries around the world as a regular course of daily life hire or elect people to make decisions for us so that more expensive means ( eg courts)do not need to be used for every decision or judgement call. Heck even in our sport we rely on referees and umpires to make judgements because having video reviews or committe decisions for every shot or pitch or check would take way to much time and money. If you don't trust the police to do their job and get it right 99 percent of the time then you are living in the wrong country and must have endless pockets to pay for your fantasy world.