Spiderman
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Posts posted by Spiderman
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I would think so - but is there any snow on it?
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Was looking at our club's Facebook page - so many downed trees.
We have the low lying swamp issues too - it's been nice and cold with little snow - so hopefully those have firmed up.
No hockey for the last 3 weeks - but no snow to ride at the cottage either.... stinks
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11 hours ago, Ox said:
Hard to believe that they are actually settling this that quickly.
Usually it seems that they allow a bit of time to see if it pops up first?
Unless they just know from experience that if these doo pop up, it will be a year from now or more on average?
Used to be 30 days.
I guess times have changed.
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tough/late start - great to see the dedicated volunteers staying optimistic and doing what they can.
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6 hours ago, RAMSOMAIR said:
You got that right. But if there is a 2022 sitting beside a 2021 and the thieves know DESS doesn't work on the 22 (oh and they know)........
They aren't worried about DESS, they'll steal anything and everything.
Thieves and their "fencing" market will always have a way to move whatever is they need to move.
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Well, thieves don't need to start the sled to steal the sled
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9 minutes ago, Nutter said:
The MSVA applies to anywhere public including lakes, crown and municipal land, and on private land where the public is invited to ride by fee, and/or if enforcement is requested by the land owner, however on roads and hwy's it's up to the discretion of the officer to enforce under the HTA or MSVA. I was made aware of this from ride alongs with Sean (ODot1)
Appreciate the clarification
Cheers
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49 minutes ago, infernobuster said:
Just an FYI. The HTA was changed in Sept of last year to include all private entities as well.
ie parking lots etc. I dont think that includes snowmobile trails with the exception of road running, or alongside a highway. Again, up to officer interpretation.
Yup, saw that - the change followed the ruling on the case I posted.
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5 minutes ago, Nutter said:
If you're talking about Quebec we'd need to see huge legislative changes, here volunteers, landowners, clubs the OFSC and birds that fly over trails can be sued, Sure we win just about every single time, but in order to do that there us a huge cost burden, which Quebec doesn't have with their lawsuit protection legislation. The OFSC and every other none profit in Ontario has lobbied for it for as long as I can remember, out legal system isn't budging on it. Quebec is much different culturally especially when it comes to sledding, but they also have a lot of the same issues.
Sometimes the only solution to a problem has to come from within the problem itself ........
100% - their no right to sue law(s) is the biggest saving grace
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20 minutes ago, stoney said:
Yes, OFSC trail passes through from K to little Red, but I doubt there was a sled clocked at 120KM on that section based on what I recall that trail was like.....likely down the main road out of base camp.
And 120km may sound like a lot, but a sled gets up to that in the blink of an eye that we all know the vast majority of usually are not that far off that mark on a straight section of trail.
yeah, that's about 75 miles an hour - doesn't take long to hit that at all.
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25 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:
There are OFSC prescribed trails on the Halibuton Forest property. As well, many of the OFSC trails in Ontario are on private property annd the MSVA apply to them.
I didn't know there were OFSC prescribed trails in the Haliburton Forest.
Sorry, to clarify, MSVA applies to OFSC prescribed trails only
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18 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:
Thanks to the gentleman that sent the following definition of "Trail" as used in the MSVA.:
Definition of Trail in section 1 of the MSVA.
“trail” means the whole of any trail established and maintained by a recreational organization for the use of motorized snow vehicles; (“piste”)
I think that the above definition would apply to the H.F. even though they are a for profit org.
One thing that stands out for me in the news report is that the headline that indicates the radar stop took place on an OFSC trail. If that is indeed the case, there are no OFSC trails open in that area and so there should have been trespassing charges laid.
The article says "in Haliburton Forest" - which are NOT OFSC prescribed trails.
The MSVA does not apply to private property
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9 hours ago, tricky said:
So you don't believe the Haliburton Forest Facebook comment that they use paid duty OPP to police their trails? OFTR/SCORRA use paid duty OPP to police their trails. Makes some sense to me that Haliburton Forest would budget for some police patrols.
Well, people can say anything they want - I would probably say the same thing in an effort to keep people honest.
I would also welcome them in, it's a win win
We have an area in my city that "paid" duty are used - it's not voluntary - it's forced on the business owners via a levy as part of their licences - it's very very expensive.
I wouldn't want to see the bill for having two Paid Duty OPP's riding around for the day - but maybe for them it's worth it to keep people in check.
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18 minutes ago, Nutter said:
Some things to ponder within the scope of some of what's been discussed in this thread.
The me me me generation is only getting worse, respect for one another for the most part is gone, not just in sledding. Everyone got a trophy whether they put forth an effort or not, so here we are ...........
30,000 km of trail in the province each trail with multiple access points - if trail closed signs were put up and removed at every access point each time a trail opened and closed throughout the season what would cost of the signs and logistics be, and how many volunteer hours would it take each time ? Also what kind of liabilities would it open if the odd sign here and there was missed if this was the standard practice ?
Mid to late 40's Ted and Alice just want to help their community and volunteer with their local sled club because it's their way of giving back through something they enjoy in their spare time. How much training and legal protection can you feasibly give to them to be effect Trail Patrol, and most importantly at the same time keep them from harms way ?
Last season a group of 6 of us were trailside on a rail trail at an open area at a road crossing, checking permits and chatting with riders that stopped because they wanted to stop and chat. 90% of the riders were totally awesome just out riding and enjoying the day, posing for pic's for the clubs FB page, and also taking pic's themselves, very receptive to us being out there. We also helped a couple with a mechanical problem and saved their day. After about an hour or so a group of 4 guys came up upon us at an overly high rate of speed fast enough that their stopping was uncontrolled, almost clipping some of us and others pulled well off the trail. When we and some of the others that were at the stop tried to confront them while they made their stop at the road crossing, they were belligerent and extremely aggressive, one guy actually got off his sled and starting flexing and chirping off to everyone there. Pic's were taken and OPP were called and description and reg numbers were given, there was a snow unit out in the area, but never heard back from them, so figure they never saw them. This wasn't the first time something like this has happened to our group. I like most other volunteers I just want to ride and volunteer to make sure we have trails and to help better my community. I deal with aggressive scumbags at work all the time and have a decent amount of confrontation de-escalation, self defense and tactical training, and I honestly no longer feel safe out there doing trail patrol in the bush with sketchy cell service, and certainly don't want to have to deal with that crap while volunteering.
I don't know the solution, but do feel the only thing that will save this sport (and mankind in general) is a shift in the attitude of the select ME ME ME few. No matter how much the fines are, or if the OPP put 10-20x the amount of man power out there it will never be enough to stop the self entitled a-hos.
Change has to come within the sport, like Zozo said, people have to stop doing things like riding with people with unpermitted sleds. Also take it a few steps further, not riding with people that ride with cans, or riders riding beyond their talent.... ect
All makes sense
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1 hour ago, Panther340 said:
Okay ,I will start the bashing......reason 1 ) why should the thousands of Northern Ontario snowmachine owners that don't use OFSC trails at all ,( many do not even live close to trails and use crown land instead) pay for people in Southern Ont like yourself to do your sport. The political pushback would be substantial. ...Reason #2 - the lack of control over trail enforcement occurred when the Onrario Government took on more control over the OFSC a few years back, ....having them take complete financial control over the system, with would put non snowmobilers ( politicians) decision control over a complex system that needs expertise not more bureaucracy.
1. For the same reasons every vehicle owner has to pay towards "roads". Can I have a tax credit back because I don't travel on northern roads that require a tonne more winter maintenance expense than the roads I do use?
The political push-back would be next to nothing - we're talking about a very small amount of numbers that in the grand scheme of things, wouldn't make a lick of a difference. What will happen - the same people who don't buy permits now refuse to buy a $35.00 license sticker? whooooo
2. Agree
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1 hour ago, stonehaven said:
The OPP are not paid by the Forest to come in, however they welcome to patrol anytime. They have already been in there twice this season.
That makes way more sense
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4 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:
Yes they are paid by forest. Lady at base camp told me they invite them in to do random blitz’s based on traffic.
"Invite" - or are paid?
To me, those are 2 different things
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25 minutes ago, stoney said:
No, curfew affects all people within the province - you can be out as long as you have your papers to support your reasoning for being out i.e. work.
Causing me some grief on work right now I am getting done - people even in the province, do not understand this.
Could imagine a time when Police would be out on a trail doing check points to make sure you are not out past curfew.......
Jesus what has happened to society...
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37 minutes ago, stoney said:
I know for sure Odot1 was asked this on other forums - I do not recall the answer, but, assumption would be trail on sanctioned road falls under HTA......hence why kids with sled license are not suppose to ride sled on trail that crosses road or runs on road.
Well, that's important to note.
If you're going to speed - do it on a trail lol
would be very easy to get a big ticket with points on some stretches of road where the trails are on them.
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1 minute ago, stoney said:
The HTA also does not apply to trails, which is why the fine for speeding is a flat rate fine vs. the fine you would receive of speeding on a road.
HTA rules are extremely loose in parking lots - why they say it is the worst place to have an accident.
Also why police cannot enforce using phone in this environment while driving, etc....
Correct, HTA does not apply to sleds on trails.
HTA appears to have been amended recently - I think based off the case I noted - will have to do some further digging.
If a trail goes out on a road - does the MSVA still apply - or can the HTA be applied?
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30 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:
Do Traffic Regulations apply on Private Property?
Posted by Injury Lawyers of Ontario on August 29, 2016 The province of Ontario has a unique provision in its laws that states that a person cannot be charged with a driving infraction if that infraction occurs on private property or in a government parking lot. Only if the driver commits a crime, such as driving while impaired, can a person be charged with an offence by the police. Ontario traffic regulations apply only to public roads and highways. According to Ontario's Highway Traffic Act, public roads and highways are defined as any common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles.
Ontario's most heavily trafficked private properties are privately owned parking lots (particularly shopping mall lots), multi-level parking garages, and municipal parking lots. Motor vehicle operators are generally immune from being charged with traffic infractions such as failing to observe a stop sign or failing to give the right of way, when operating a vehicle in these areas.
I did a search in our library on this.
This case is referenced. I haven't gone any further to see if this has held up and is now the precedent at current.
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5 minutes ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:
Thats not true at all. Once an area (for lack of a better word) is accessed by one or more people for the sake of accessing an area meant for two or more people the traffic act applies. If its your driveway and someone comes into it then its not considered public access. But a public parking lot becomes subject to provincial laws because its meant to be used for public access.
HTA does not apply in private parking lots.
Police will not, do not, and can not issue tickets for accidents in parking lots because there is no HTA charge to go with it.
He is right on that.
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26 minutes ago, capster59 said:
Well I like having it...especially when I get lost as it shows me where I am.
I won't ride with anyone that decides to go thru trail closed sign...no excuse for that
There was a time I don't think I could ever get lost within 200 mile radius of our place.
Now, I could quite easily
Ride safe
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Had a lot of great times and memories from there - love that spot.
Hopefully someone takes it on and brings it back to life - exactly the kind of place we need right now
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STOLEN SLED
in Main Clubhouse
Posted
I don't get people worried about parking their stuff for a few days here and there or overnight, yet they'll park expensive toys at their un-attended cottages for long stretches without a concern...
Just go - crap happens