stoney Posted September 24, 2025 Posted September 24, 2025 Adding that post here for others to read - it is a good one! A Message to Our Members & Riders We know some of you are learning about, and may be frustrated by, two things as we look forward to the season ahead: • The OFSC may be raising permit rates by a small amount (possibly 7%) • Trail reductions, where our club is only reducing a handful of little-used or duplicate trails (details to follow) So please, let us put this in perspective. Last year, the OFSC ran a sizeable deficit. Groomers, fuel, insurance, maintenance, and manpower costs, like everything else in life are skyrocketing. At the same time, climate change is shrinking our sledding season, affecting the number of passes sold. The math is simple: expenses are going up, revenue is not keeping pace. To keep the provincial trail network alive, hard choices had to be made. Cutting little-used, dead-end or redundant trails lets us focus on maintaining and grooming the trails that matter most to riders. And about the potential of a 7% increase in our OFSC Trail Pass for this season: the average permit this year will be around $270. Compare that to: • A season ski pass at Blue Mountain: $1,100+ • A golf membership at many Ontario courses: $2,000–$5,000+ • Even a single-day lift ticket at major ski hills: $150+ • A single round of golf is easily: $100+ Suddenly, snowmobiling looks like the best value outdoor sport membership in Ontario. But here’s the most significant difference: skiing and golf courses are run as businesses for profit. Snowmobiling in Ontario is built by a not-for-profit network of volunteers. At Paudash Trail Blazers, we manage and maintain ~300 km of trails with volunteers who give their time, energy, and their own equipment, often covering their own costs, to make sure riders have a safe, maintained, and groomed system to enjoy. So when you buy your permit, you’re not just “paying a fee”, you’re supporting an entire community. If you’re upset about cuts or costs, the answer isn’t to complain. The answer is to step up and help. Help us by connecting with us to: 1. Join a committee 2. Volunteer at a work day 3. Bring your ideas to the table, be a part of the solution 4. Help us sustain our trail system to thrive in the face of the challenges of climate change and rising costs This is OUR club, OUR trails, OUR community. Together, we need to protect it, support it, and build on the legacy of our soon-to-be 50 year old club. That will only be realized if more of us get involved. The real question isn’t “why did the OFSC raise the rates?” It’s “what can I do to help?” #PTBSC #OFSC #Snowmobiling 1 Quote
Mach Z Posted September 24, 2025 Posted September 24, 2025 While i agree with some of this. This antiquated way of thinking is not going to help and keep this sport alive. I agree with their passion but disagree with the method of future governance Quote
Steve F6 Posted September 24, 2025 Posted September 24, 2025 On 9/23/2025 at 10:50 AM, Muskoka Man said: So port Sydney is losing a groomer south of the groomer shed? Last i heard we lose our west side groomer. I cant confirm as i was down south for the last meeting. Come out to the community center on the weekend to find out more as its the HGR 60th anniversary party thing. On 9/22/2025 at 3:31 PM, Spiderman said: I can only speak for myself, but I can and am willing to accept an increase way more than I am trail reduction. I see one as the cost of doing business, and the other as mismanagement. just my view. and I will add, interesting the OFSC will “ask” clubs for their input on a price increase, and have to accept that response, then turn around and “ask” for co-operation in reducing your trail network, while saying if you don’t agree, we won’t cover you at all. that’s not an ask. I agree on the price increase, thats totally fine. The whole trail reduction issue it honestly looks and sounds written/calculated by chat gpt AI!!!!!Lol I get the whole cozy warm feeling the paudash club is trying to put out there but they lose me when they bring up the climate change thing. We arent getting these trails back ever! Its about time we get a public non ai written message from the ofsc board brass explaining how they got to this conclusion and other options we could pursue as an alternative to trail losses. I'll throw this out there for us to chew on but heres a question. Could muskoka(MSR) or other popular regions like the northern corridor carry on financially on their own seperate from ofsc based on their respective permit sales? I hate to say it but i'd buy a muskoka pass for $400-500 and if i went north for a week of riding i'd buy a northern corridor pass too. 4 Quote
Spiderman Posted September 24, 2025 Posted September 24, 2025 1 hour ago, Steve F6 said: Last i heard we lose our west side groomer. I cant confirm as i was down south for the last meeting. Come out to the community center on the weekend to find out more as its the HGR 60th anniversary party thing. I agree on the price increase, thats totally fine. The whole trail reduction issue it honestly looks and sounds written/calculated by chat gpt AI!!!!!Lol I get the whole cozy warm feeling the paudash club is trying to put out there but they lose me when they bring up the climate change thing. We arent getting these trails back ever! Its about time we get a public non ai written message from the ofsc board brass explaining how they got to this conclusion and other options we could pursue as an alternative to trail losses. I'll throw this out there for us to chew on but heres a question. Could muskoka(MSR) or other popular regions like the northern corridor carry on financially on their own seperate from ofsc based on their respective permit sales? I hate to say it but i'd buy a muskoka pass for $400-500 and if i went north for a week of riding i'd buy a northern corridor pass too. I am with you, no way you just get them back if/when things turn around. Lets just be honest with ourselves, that is highly unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely. If it were that simple, we would not be here today having this discussion. To your point re: MSR - in theory, yes, but it would need to be run more like a for profit business than a not for profit, and also be a large undertaking. The two biggest hurdles would be insurance - without some legislative changes, it would be costly. The other - imo would be equipment. Those here in the know will correct me, but I thought at one point clubs or districts ( MSR ) owned their own equipment? Doesn't the OFSC now own it and dictate where it goes etc? I, like you, would buy a Regional MSR pass only as well. And it would take very little to cut off the MSR from the rest of the system. Quote
T bird Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 12 hours ago, stoney said: Yep, when the old group I used to ride with were planning a weekend away, trail conditions was not part of the topic at all - who was free/available, pack what we needed and lets go. Even knowing what trails were open or closed was not considered a great deal (I know, should not be saying that.....) - if we ended up clearing a trail instead of riding near a buddy's cottages, that is what we did for the day, if trails were beat to snot, lakes were a great alternate, thankfully we had one guy that knew the lakes like the back of his hand, if he was not there, we would be lost and maybe a few of us no longer here....lol Conditions, winters, trails, the system have changed some since then too. We were the same back in the day…. No ITG and barely into cell phones at that time. We would just call resorts, motels or gas stations and get reports. I can recall one time in March… was St. patty’s day and we got sun burnt and a 2 man limit of walleye on Detroit River, got home and cleaned fish, and parked the boat and loaded sleds and headed north the next day first thing…. Oh the good ole days! lol 2 Quote
95rxl650 Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 Sledding got way to complicated and expensive. The 80's into the early 90's offered some of the best times of my life on sleds. No phones no google and a paper map that only helped if you knew where you were. My wife and I with another couple spent a night in a dilapidated pole barn while lost in a storm. Our group slept in club houses more than once. We waited out the night whiteouts with a fire. while lost in an open field. We just rode until we found the bush and built a fire. No one ever really cared. Worst case scenario was waking up a farmer for fuel or some dumb shyte. Back then it would be hard to find a farmer that hadnt come to the rescue of some dumb asses and they always got a chuckle out the stupidity of it all. No one ever got shot for trespassing. lol Good times. 1 Quote
Mach Z Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 If I think about it. I havent been on a night ride in years. The trails are so good you can bang off 150- 250 km in Muskoka in a day and by that time your back before night. Just saying how things have changed 2 Quote
stoney Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 A night ride on the Fri when rolling into the cottage was always mandatory - Sat night was hit or miss, but at the end of the day on Sat, we all made sure we had a full tank of gas in case it happened, because nothing was open past 5pm. 3 Quote
Spiderman Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 1 hour ago, stoney said: A night ride on the Fri when rolling into the cottage was always mandatory - Sat night was hit or miss, but at the end of the day on Sat, we all made sure we had a full tank of gas in case it happened, because nothing was open past 5pm. Night riding in Muskoka is the safest time. Used to love it 4 Quote
Faceman Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 Ridership has come to expect silky smooth ribbon trails with continued grooming. Unsustainable standards. There is no accountability or remorse by some riders for ripping up a freshly groomed trails. 3 Quote
Spiderman Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 44 minutes ago, Faceman said: Ridership has come to expect silky smooth ribbon trails with continued grooming. Unsustainable standards. There is no accountability or remorse by some riders for ripping up a freshly groomed trails. Agreed We seem to forget we are fortunate to get spoiled now and again, but it's an off-road activity over natural terrain. Stands to reason it isn't going to be perfect - whether you "bought a pass or not". 2 Quote
95rxl650 Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 Todays sleds can tear up the trails pretty quick. All these long track sleds move alot of snow accelerating through corners and leaving crossings. For me a 129 was awkward and hard to ride in comparison to the ol' 108" enticers and the newer 121's. I miss the old 340/440 days with crazy carpets for tracks, 45 hp and a top speed of 60mph. Sure seemed like you going fast with your azz a foot of the ground, horrible steering and brakes that were optional. You could ride all night and never really go far, top the tank off, fill the wine skin and a pack of smokes for $10 had you ready for the next night. The trails lasted out the weekends where now they get torn to shyte by 10am on a Saturday. 1 Quote
CAT RIDER Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 Wow this all sounds too familar ! Yes track lenght and horespower has come a long way, trails seem to detereate faster. in the end its the connection between our ears that reaches out to our right thumb, guilty as charged, I have slowed way down as I got older and have more respect for the trails and the hours the groomer operator put in for us.I remeber in the mid 80s Bob Smith from the old Knights of Armour snowmobile club, put me on an Alpine with a single tow behind drag on a Friday night about 9pm at about 15 degrees farenheight,That sure changed my attitude in a hurry. Miss the Friday night riding as you can see on coming sleds in the bush a lot easier, no suprises in the corners. As time marches on some thing progress others regress. Quote
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 I don't think track length has as much to do with it as paddle height. We were at 1" then 1.25" now 1.75" and beyond. I rode behind a 1.75" for a couple of hours a few years ago and couldn't believe the chunks the track was throwing up and the rider wasn't riding hard. It was just tearing the trail up. The guy riding it did cut the paddles down to 1.25 before the next season. Quote
CAT RIDER Posted September 25, 2025 Posted September 25, 2025 Yes for sure, it seems the longer the track length the further apart the holes appear, back in the day a long track 125 inch would bridge the holes made from the short track sleds of the day, now 137 seems to be standard length and the bumps get worse the more I age! LOL! as lonfg as were able to talk about it ,its all good! Heres to more miles of smiles on white ribbon this year! Quote
Strong Farmer Posted September 26, 2025 Author Posted September 26, 2025 48 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: I don't think track length has as much to do with it as paddle height. We were at 1" then 1.25" now 1.75" and beyond. I rode behind a 1.75" for a couple of hours a few years ago and couldn't believe the chunks the track was throwing up and the rider wasn't riding hard. It was just tearing the trail up. The guy riding it did cut the paddles down to 1.25 before the next season. Typically they burn up sliders with a lug height that high. When I was up north before you could tell where free loaders were getting off and on trail with deep lugs 👌. Also studs can do some serious damage too. This be my first year trying an ice ripper track. Quote
zoso Posted September 26, 2025 Posted September 26, 2025 On 9/25/2025 at 10:44 AM, Faceman said: Ridership has come to expect silky smooth ribbon trails with continued grooming. Unsustainable standards. There is no accountability or remorse by some riders for ripping up a freshly groomed trails. Last year we booked a cottage near harcourt. Groomer was down the entire time we were there and for a week prior. Rode every day and had a blast. Would have preferred groomed trails but we never once complained, just drank more each night to ease the pain. 1 3 Quote
signfan Posted September 27, 2025 Posted September 27, 2025 For those that want to do something to help the situation besides complain how about buying your passes on November 2nd or December 2nd this year. If 5000 or 10,000 passes were bought on one of these two specific days (the day after rates increase) it would send a message to the Ofsc management that they don’t have the pass pricing correct. It also says we support the organization and don’t want trail cuts to continue. Just an idea for folks to consider. Throw $50 at the issue and send a positive message. It’s a personal decision on what you feel passes should be worth that you as the buyer control. 1 1 Quote
Spiderman Posted September 27, 2025 Posted September 27, 2025 I have a different option rolling around in my head at the moment. Quote
burndog Posted September 27, 2025 Posted September 27, 2025 Where do we find the particulars on how and where revenue has been distributed in the past by the "bean counters"? Quote
signfan Posted September 27, 2025 Posted September 27, 2025 What are you looking for? Here’s some math to consider. Seasonal permits were $190 early bird for the 2018 / 2019 season (just looked my receipts up). This year they will be $228.98 early bird. I’m no accountant, but $38 over 8 seasons works out to less than a 2% increase year over year. The truth is OFSC drove efficiencies over this period of time by centralizing and stream lining operations. Is / was it perfect? I’m sure the answer is no. But I highly doubt you would find substantial waste especially now compared to how things ran 10 or 15 years ago. Anyone with a bank account and any sort of household budget knows inflation has been much higher than 2% over the same period. That’s the issue here. A lot of the true cost increases have been absorbed by operational changes. But at some point you get to a point that you can’t change without effecting output. That’s where we’re at. I don’t agree with the cuts and believe higher permit prices should have occurred. But also can’t fault a provincial board for making the organization live within its means. I’m sure the last group of ppl that want trails cut is the OFSC board of governors. They are arguably the most dedicated and loyal participants our sport has. Just my opinion. 3 Quote
signfan Posted September 27, 2025 Posted September 27, 2025 To see the math you join a club and then ask for the Ofsc’s audited financial statements. They are produced and provided to the clubs annually. The Ofsc is controlled by its membership in a democratic fashion. The members are the clubs. When I was running a club we saw a report once a year prior to convention. Quote
Strong Farmer Posted September 27, 2025 Author Posted September 27, 2025 4 hours ago, signfan said: For those that want to do something to help the situation besides complain how about buying your passes on November 2nd or December 2nd this year. If 5000 or 10,000 passes were bought on one of these two specific days (the day after rates increase) it would send a message to the Ofsc management that they don’t have the pass pricing correct. It also says we support the organization and don’t want trail cuts to continue. Just an idea for folks to consider. Throw $50 at the issue and send a positive message. It’s a personal decision on what you feel passes should be worth that you as the buyer control. I am buying one early and one at full price if my buddy still has holidays left when Feb rolls around. Hes about as realible as weather 👌 Quote
Spiderman Posted September 27, 2025 Posted September 27, 2025 7 minutes ago, signfan said: To see the math you join a club and then ask for the Ofsc’s audited financial statements. They are produced and provided to the clubs annually. The Ofsc is controlled by its membership in a democratic fashion. The members are the clubs. When I was running a club we saw a report once a year prior to convention. Just to understand, the members (clubs), said let’s cut 20% of our trails then, is that correct?. 1 Quote
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