2026 Ontario season

[Mach Z]

10 minutes ago, stoney said:

It has been said a few times here, but the mindset of people will not buy if there is an increase needs to stop - that card has been played for years in hopes to maintain ridership along with creative thoughts to entice people, but it does not seem to work....the weather and available trails do, along with people actually having the spare income to partake in this very expensive sport.

Perhaps a take away from this is the clubs that felt the increase was a bad idea have come to the realization that thought is no longer going to work, or you lose trails instead because something has got to give.

 

If I recall, even QC had a bad year in 23/24.....but they increased their permits I sure that next year.

It complete BS. No one will not buy a permit if it goes from 200 to 400.  Complete Fallacy

 

 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

14 minutes ago, mach Z said:

It complete BS. No one will not buy a permit if it goes from 200 to 400.  Complete Fallacy

 

 

I'm not sure what you are reading or where you are reading it but no one here suggested a $400.00 Ontario permit price. It wouldn't even be possible anyway as long as we are tied into the MTO as they will only allow 7% maximum increases. What has been suggested is that voting down a 7% increase last year contributed to a $5 million shortfall by seasons end. 7% only equates to about $15.00  increase for a full price permit. Nothing wrong with that increase and as well I would suggest a smaller price reduction for early permits if it means balancing the books.

[stoney]

24 minutes ago, mach Z said:

It complete BS. No one will not buy a permit if it goes from 200 to 400.  Complete Fallacy

 

 

 

Nope - but there might be more free loading pieces of crap riding with no permit - so need reformed enforcement as well, a much bigger penalty - large fine for trespass goes to municipality and instant permit purchase of at least double full pop goes to the OFSC.  

And seeing as it is tied to the MTO, just like the 407, if you do not pay up, no renewal for you on your car.

 

10 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I'm not sure what you are reading or where you are reading it but no one here suggested a $400.00 Ontario permit price. It wouldn't even be possible anyway as long as we are tied into the MTO as they will only allow 7% maximum increases. What has been suggested is that voting down a 7% increase last year contributed to a $5 million shortfall by seasons end. 7% only equates to about $15.00  increase for a full price permit. Nothing wrong with that increase and as well I would suggest a smaller price reduction for early permits if it means balancing the books.

 

Yep, 7% is insignificant, all the more reason the 5% that was turned down the year before is totally insane.......

And get creative, do not offer as big a reduction to early bird, at least to start and see how things look at the end and adjust accordingly....riders need to understand the fluency of the situation and know things may need to change more or less each year.

[Spiderman]

I can only speak for myself, but I can and am willing to accept an increase way more than I am trail reduction.

 
I see one as the cost of doing business, and the other as mismanagement. 
 

just my view.

 

and I will add, interesting the OFSC will “ask” clubs for their input on a price increase, and have to accept that response, then turn around and “ask” for co-operation in reducing your trail network, while saying if you don’t agree, we won’t cover you at all.

 

that’s not an ask.

 

 

 

[stoney]

You give enough rope and some will hang themselves.

I totally get how it seems this came about, not intentionally leading a club or clubs.....but people need to come to the "right" conclusion and sometimes you need to let people see for themselves the repercussions of their choices, especially when you have so many clubs that make up the organization that some I am sure see things very differently and no doubt some clubs are and have been at odds with each other.

[signfan]

7 hours ago, stoney said:

It has been said a few times here, but the mindset of people will not buy if there is an increase needs to stop - that card has been played for years in hopes to maintain ridership along with creative thoughts to entice people, but it does not seem to work....the weather and available trails do, along with people actually having the spare income to partake in this very expensive sport.

Perhaps a take away from this is the clubs that felt the increase was a bad idea have come to the realization that thought is no longer going to work, or you lose trails instead because something has got to give.

 

If I recall, even QC had a bad year in 23/24.....but they increased their permits I sure that next year.

Have to correct you.  Quebec held their prices and introduced an earlier early bird (October but similar to Ontario for the first time) which was actually a drop in price.  The year prior to that (3 seasons ago) was a big Quebec price bump.  Ppl have a short memory.  The folks at the agm two years ago were coming off the worst snow year the Ofsc has ever had.  The northern corridor melted down in February.  I remember the Cochrane club losing an ice bridge mid season.  Some of the ski hills barely squeezed out 6 weeks with snow making and missed Christmas.  I rode 300 km total that winter vs 3000 km most other years.  250 kms of them were in Quebec.  That and the land use renewal issue were front and centre.  There was reason to hold the line.  Makes you ask why weren’t reserves built when it was that bad.  Grooming costs would have been way down.  Maybe they were and got burnt up last winter.  Last winter was the exact opposite.  Huge season snow wise for the majority of the province (everyone but district one).  7% increase  is not enough this winter.  I still maintain Ofsc missed a couple bumps during Covid years that should have occurred.  Permits should be in the $250 - $275 range early bird in line with New Brunswick.  At some point they need to catch up.  You do that coming off good winters.  Is what it is now.  7% this year.  Will see what comes next.

 

Maybe it’s time to for OFSC to offer some premium options.  There appears to be two customers.  The ones that are price concise and then the guys that want it all.  The ones that deal sleds every year and have the newest of everything.  I bet there is a way to serve that high end client and get more from them.  

[stoney]

Thanks - I feel as though the QC permit goes up each year, clearly I was wrong.

[signfan]

Most years it does.  That’s the one exception I can remember.

[Strong Farmer]

5 hours ago, signfan said:

Have to correct you.  Quebec held their prices and introduced an earlier early bird (October but similar to Ontario for the first time) which was actually a drop in price.  The year prior to that (3 seasons ago) was a big Quebec price bump.  Ppl have a short memory.  The folks at the agm two years ago were coming off the worst snow year the Ofsc has ever had.  The northern corridor melted down in February.  I remember the Cochrane club losing an ice bridge mid season.  Some of the ski hills barely squeezed out 6 weeks with snow making and missed Christmas.  I rode 300 km total that winter vs 3000 km most other years.  250 kms of them were in Quebec.  That and the land use renewal issue were front and centre.  There was reason to hold the line.  Makes you ask why weren’t reserves built when it was that bad.  Grooming costs would have been way down.  Maybe they were and got burnt up last winter.  Last winter was the exact opposite.  Huge season snow wise for the majority of the province (everyone but district one).  7% increase  is not enough this winter.  I still maintain Ofsc missed a couple bumps during Covid years that should have occurred.  Permits should be in the $250 - $275 range early bird in line with New Brunswick.  At some point they need to catch up.  You do that coming off good winters.  Is what it is now.  7% this year.  Will see what comes next.

 

Maybe it’s time to for OFSC to offer some premium options.  There appears to be two customers.  The ones that are price concise and then the guys that want it all.  The ones that deal sleds every year and have the newest of everything.  I bet there is a way to serve that high end client and get more from them.  

Give me groomer data in app and charge me xxx amount to see it for season.  Lots of us out there that would pay extra to view it, no doubt. 

[Spiderman]

I could care less about groomer apps and data, that isn’t my job.

 

its also irrelevant if you don’t have trails to ride.

 

[stoney]

The "data" of a trail is nice when on a trip, but it does not always equate to much when you hit the trails because things can change quick and you are on a trip, not as though you will say I will pass on my ride today because the "data" does not look good.....lol.

 

As for premium options, not sure that will have much impact - maybe charge based on the sled you ride - higher HP more expensive sleds pay more due to the damage they cause, low HP sleds pay less due to the lower impact they have.....

 

[Muskoka Man]

On 8/21/2025 at 8:43 PM, Steve F6 said:

Last i heard HGR loses a groomer👎 also good bye trail 50 after spending a week cutting a reroute. Send an email to ofsc if u use trail 50. The at grade hwy crossing is the issue i believe.

So port Sydney is losing a groomer south of the groomer shed?

[Spiderman]

14 minutes ago, stoney said:

The "data" of a trail is nice when on a trip, but it does not always equate to much when you hit the trails because things can change quick and you are on a trip, not as though you will say I will pass on my ride today because the "data" does not look good.....lol.

 

As for premium options, not sure that will have much impact - maybe charge based on the sled you ride - higher HP more expensive sleds pay more due to the damage they cause, low HP sleds pay less due to the lower impact they have.....

 

 

Well, I say things, and fully know I am in the minority when it comes to tech and that stuff. I just don't care.

I still just use my memory, and will write things down before heading out where I might go and how to get there.

I don't have a gps - and have never downloaded an interactive trail map, so that stuff doesn't do anything for me.

 

If it's groomed - awesome - if it's not and that is where I need to go - it is what it is.

 

[stoney]

54 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

 

Well, I say things, and fully know I am in the minority when it comes to tech and that stuff. I just don't care.

I still just use my memory, and will write things down before heading out where I might go and how to get there.

I don't have a gps - and have never downloaded an interactive trail map, so that stuff doesn't do anything for me.

 

If it's groomed - awesome - if it's not and that is where I need to go - it is what it is.

 

 

When I ride local trails that I know, I am the same - rarely use the app or other stuff.

Trips though, for sure those things get used.

As for groomed, locally try to avoid the days where the chances of being groomed is high.....on a trip, just need to suck it and make the best of it. 

[Strong Farmer]

12 hours ago, Spiderman said:

I could care less about groomer apps and data, that isn’t my job.

 

its also irrelevant if you don’t have trails to ride.

 

For riding two up it would be nice to know what was groomed in last  12 hours and show were groomers are too., it could help with trail sustainability by proving extra revenue source.  Ofsc has data already they just have to share it. So if 15,000 snowmobiles paid 200 for season to see data that's 3 million dollars minus whatever it costs to display data. Just saying it would be a premium for those that wanted to un lock it. 

[Spiderman]

1 hour ago, Strong Farmer said:

For riding two up it would be nice to know what was groomed in last  12 hours and show were groomers are too., it could help with trail sustainability by proving extra revenue source.  Ofsc has data already they just have to share it. So if 15,000 snowmobiles paid 200 for season to see data that's 3 million dollars minus whatever it costs to display data. Just saying it would be a premium for those that wanted to un lock it. 

I get it.

I would look at it from another lemse too though, if you post what’s groomed, where do you think everyone is going to go? Your grooming will be tore to crap by 10:00 am.

 

 

[Strong Farmer]

38 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

I get it.

I would look at it from another lemse too though, if you post what’s groomed, where do you think everyone is going to go? Your grooming will be tore to crap by 10:00 am.

 

 

That's true too but still would like data.  Your right with less trails there will be less choice and more beat up trails too. 

[95rxl650]

Posting groomed trails is like posting where the fish are. It always brings a crowd. 

Most people have a network of locals that share information among themselves. I personally get info from folks that drive by trail crossings daily. If you have to ride on weekends then you best get out early. 

 

 

[Strong Farmer]

1 hour ago, 95rxl650 said:

Posting groomed trails is like posting where the fish are. It always brings a crowd. 

Most people have a network of locals that share information among themselves. I personally get info from folks that drive by trail crossings daily. If you have to ride on weekends then you best get out early. 

 

 

Ride Saturdays and Sunday's all of last year. Wasn't a tonne of traffic on side loops I did. Main trails were trashed by noon typically. If we loose those side loops and there only trashed main trails to ride, I be out of this sport real quick. We got about 7 weeks last year one of better ones. First ride out was middle of January at Conestoga lake, last ride was milverton during first weekend of March before trails closed.
 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

3 hours ago, 95rxl650 said:

Posting groomed trails is like posting where the fish are. It always brings a crowd. 

I totally agree. Fresh groomed trails need time to set up before being ridden on or they will be sh_t in no time. Grooming reports won't improve the riding experience for the majority.

[Spiderman]

23 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I totally agree. Fresh groomed trails need time to set up before being ridden on or they will be sh_t in no time. Grooming reports won't improve the riding experience for the majority.

100% agree.

 

I assume it's not lost on people, but maybe it is, but the amount of time that grooming takes to set things up for us is very long - the amount of time it takes for some dickhead to undo all that work is almost nil, so I would prefer the trail status stay as it is - keep updates on grooming if any vague, and go from there.

 

 

[stoney]

Yep, no reporting is just fine here too. 
If you live in a box, I can see why people may feel the need to have it. 
only thing I can relate it too is QC - and it has zero impact either way, and I’m sure in this great province of ours, there is some silly liability issue with it anyways….

[Spiderman]

32 minutes ago, stoney said:

Yep, no reporting is just fine here too. 
If you live in a box, I can see why people may feel the need to have it. 
only thing I can relate it too is QC - and it has zero impact either way, and I’m sure in this great province of ours, there is some silly liability issue with it anyways….

 

100%!

 

Less is more

 

Just go ride

 

I know I'm ageing myself here, but when we first got our cottage - we went up on the weekends, we just went.

There was no going on line to check the weather, track radars etc. - and deciding if we'd go or just stay home. We went.

If it rained, we played cards and games - if it was nice, we played outside.

That was it.

Use it - deal with it

 

the world has gotten carried away with information

[stoney]

47 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

 

100%!

 

Less is more

 

Just go ride

 

I know I'm ageing myself here, but when we first got our cottage - we went up on the weekends, we just went.

There was no going on line to check the weather, track radars etc. - and deciding if we'd go or just stay home. We went.

If it rained, we played cards and games - if it was nice, we played outside.

That was it.

Use it - deal with it

 

the world has gotten carried away with information

Yep, when the old group I used to ride with were planning a weekend away, trail conditions was not part of the topic at all - who was free/available, pack what we needed and lets go.

Even knowing what trails were open or closed was not considered a great deal (I know, should not be saying that.....) - if we ended up clearing a trail instead of riding near a buddy's cottages, that is what we did for the day, if trails were beat to snot, lakes were a great alternate, thankfully we had one guy that knew the lakes like the back of his hand, if he was not there, we would be lost and maybe a few of us no longer here....lol

Conditions, winters, trails, the system have changed some since then too.

[Spiderman]

Just saw the Paudash Trail Blazers post on FB re: the trail reductions and permit increase. It's a good message - its clear and explains the situation. I still think it should have come from the horses mouth first - followed by messages of support from the clubs - but seems the OFSC prefer the clubs delivering the bad news, and keep their headlines to the good news. I speculate that is because most people are likely tied to their local clubs, and not the OFSC, so they may take the shittier news better if it comes from the people they relate with. 

 

What's clear is if things don't change overall - the system is not sustainable and will fail.

It's 20% of trail this year - revenues aren't likely to go up - so what's next when costs increase next year?

what's the plan here?