2026 Ontario season

[stoney]

1 minute ago, Spiderman said:

 

What makes QC vastly different is how their insurance, liability, and legal side of is set up.

We can't do that

Comment was not about that side of things, more about the provincial support to make it a healthy system I.e.for us using Val tag revenue to assist…I know the insurance side in QC is totally different, which I’m sure means they also spend a lot less on insuring the sledding federation.

[stoney]

6 minutes ago, Sksman said:

What will be the impact on the trail system if all the farmers or land owners are forced to pay $100 or $150 for a snowmobile Val tag?

 

How many will close trails across their property?

 

How many Val tags are sold yearly in Ontario?  
 

Would a small bump from $15 to say $20 or 25 combined with say a $50 increase in trail permit be enough to provide the required trail permit revenue?  

 

I do not believe forcing people to pay big (4 or 5 or more) times the current cost for something they will not use is the answer!

Agreed, that’s why I suggested increase tag to help make up short fall for infrastructure and permit still in place for the trail riders. 
knowing the numbers though are a must to put an educated number to things. 

[Spiderman]

4 minutes ago, Sksman said:

What will be the impact on the trail system if all the farmers or land owners are forced to pay $100 or $150 for a snowmobile Val tag?

 

How many will close trails across their property?

 

How many Val tags are sold yearly in Ontario?  
 

Would a small bump from $15 to say $20 or 25 combined with say a $50 increase in trail permit be enough to provide the required trail permit revenue?  

 

I do not believe forcing people to pay big (4 or 5 or more) times the current cost for something they will not use is the answer!

Well, we're looking at retracting the system significantly as it is - many trails will continue to close on their own anyway.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything - but if you want to own/run a sled in Ontario - the tag costs X

Understand that a portion of that goes to infrastructure and keeping the system viable.

No different than anything else you pay for in Ontario.

 

The combo is a good idea as well.

 

 

 

[Spiderman]

4 minutes ago, stoney said:

Comment was not about that side of things, more about the provincial support to make it a healthy system I.e.for us using Val tag revenue to assist…I know the insurance side in QC is totally different, which I’m sure means they also spend a lot less on insuring the sledding federation.

How do you convince a province hell bent on green initiatives to support something they would love to see abolished.

 

We have people screaming about waves on lakes and shorelines for crying out loud.

 

[stoney]

Just now, Spiderman said:

How do you convince a province hell bent on green initiatives to support something they would love to see abolished.

 

We have people screaming about waves on lakes and shorelines for crying out loud.

 

You say too bad and suck it up!

you already made a good point on services we all pay for that many do not use. 
the mentality of folks in QC are so different than here - some are good and some are bad…lol

and besides, you are buying a validation tag anyways, so you aren’t part of the green initiative crazy group…🤪

[Guy JR]

1 hour ago, stoney said:

To bad for them…🤪

 

figure out short fall, how many validation  tags are sold, increase the cost of those that goes to the “infrastructure” and keep the permit fee at a fair rate. 

win - win 👍

With that logic I want car registration to partially support the local drag strips and road tracks so I can pay less for my daily track fees.  Snowmobiling on a groomed trail system is a privilege for those with the interest and money to do so. 

[stoney]

37 minutes ago, Guy JR said:

With that logic I want car registration to partially support the local drag strips and road tracks so I can pay less for my daily track fees.  Snowmobiling on a groomed trail system is a privilege for those with the interest and money to do so. 

So, your gas taxes are paying to support the infrastructure that allows you to get to that strip, supporting your adrenaline rush!

as for the strips, grand bend and TMP always seem to do a good job of supporting their strips, st Thomas struggled for years after they lost their nhra status if I recall…do they still have that speed bump between 1/8 and 1/4 mile?

drag racing is a great memory, but I always wonder how things are going these days. 

 

[Spiderman]

12 minutes ago, Guy JR said:

With that logic I want car registration to partially support the local drag strips and road tracks so I can pay less for my daily track fees.  Snowmobiling on a groomed trail system is a privilege for those with the interest and money to do so. 

Owning a "motorized snow vehicle" is a privilege the Ontario government decided you must have a val tag on to leave your property with. You pay for the tag - you pay into the "system". If you don't like it, don't buy one.

 

Put a plate on your drag car and you'll have what you want.

 

I get what you're saying - I pay fees to tracks every week for my kid to ride his dirt bike at.

We don't plate his dirt bike.

But I could if I wanted to.

[Sksman]

22 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

Well, we're looking at retracting the system significantly as it is - many trails will continue to close on their own anyway.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything - but if you want to own/run a sled in Ontario - the tag costs X

Understand that a portion of that goes to infrastructure and keeping the system viable.

No different than anything else you pay for in Ontario.

 

The combo is a good idea as well.

 

 

 

Then just shut the whole system down!   

 

Forcing a farmer who rides from his own property across his neighbours and down to lake to ice fish to pay 10 times the current price will result in farmer not buying a Val tag.   
 

But as someone mentioned above maybe if you included insurance with the tag it would be received better?

 

I buy 2 permits every year.  If the permit prices rises to $350 or 400 per sled but my insurance drops by $100 or 150 I am close enough to break even.  
 

If Val tag increases to $200 but insurance is include maybe Farmers might feel the same way.

 

But it’s not an easy solution to just say make someone else pay more after 50 years because I want something!

 

If all registered sled owners were to be given a vote on raising the cost of valtag to cover the groomed trail funding required the vote would likely go against an increase.

 

 

 

[stoney]

Tag is 15 I think, so if it went to 30 or 50, do you think people would be all that upset, including the farmers?

I don’t think so, but what extra money does that yield based on number of tags  issued each year is the question. 
and you still have the permit revenue so it’s not like the tag is the only supporting income. 
 

No way ins will be part of the tag or permit in ON. 

[stoney]

Google search suggests there are 155,000 registered sleds in Ontario.

So an extra $35 x 155,000 = $5,425,000

[stoney]

34 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

 

Put a plate on your drag car and you'll have what you want.

and you’ll get harassed by the cops…

plus depending how far into the race side you are, no way they can run the streets, at least not that you should unless it’s after midnight on a quiet straight stretch of road….lol

[Spiderman]

23 minutes ago, Sksman said:

Then just shut the whole system down!   

 

Forcing a farmer who rides from his own property across his neighbours and down to lake to ice fish to pay 10 times the current price will result in farmer not buying a Val tag.   
 

But as someone mentioned above maybe if you included insurance with the tag it would be received better?

 

I buy 2 permits every year.  If the permit prices rises to $350 or 400 per sled but my insurance drops by $100 or 150 I am close enough to break even.  
 

If Val tag increases to $200 but insurance is include maybe Farmers might feel the same way.

 

But it’s not an easy solution to just say make someone else pay more after 50 years because I want something!

 

If all registered sled owners were to be given a vote on raising the cost of valtag to cover the groomed trail funding required the vote would likely go against an increase.

 

 

 

 

The best part of this entire conversation is what we're getting out of it - an understanding of how difficult the situation is and the challenges that come with it.

 

Whatever the OFSC and clubs decide to do - somebody is not going to be happy.

 

An extra $35.00 on a val tag - farmers will go into a tailspin and close the system down

Retract trails by 20% in our area - maybe we draw the line there and decide not to buy 5 permits this season

Neither one of them are good - but both are on the table I guess.

 

 

 

I

[skidooboy]

3 hours ago, stoney said:

Google search suggests there are 155,000 registered sleds in Ontario.

So an extra $35 x 155,000 = $5,425,000

 

Not sure how it is now but, there was a northern line where Val tags were required but, were free. That would play into that math pretty significantly. Say if that is the case, and say if 40% of the registered sleds north of that line... That would mean only 60% of the sleds would pay that increase. Ski

[Mach Z]

The system has to change now. Or we will lose it shortly.

 

Pay up!

[RAMSOMAIR]

The snowmobile manufacturers better get involved or their sales will be dead in Ontario real soon.

[stoney]

2 hours ago, skidooboy said:

 

Not sure how it is now but, there was a northern line where Val tags were required but, were free. That would play into that math pretty significantly. Say if that is the case, and say if 40% of the registered sleds north of that line... That would mean only 60% of the sleds would pay that increase. Ski

This is true and you are correct. 
so make em pay in that case!!!

if only it was that easy. 

[yamadan700]

7 hours ago, Spiderman said:

Well, we're looking at retracting the system significantly as it is - many trails will continue to close on their own anyway.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything - but if you want to own/run a sled in Ontario - the tag costs X

Understand that a portion of that goes to infrastructure and keeping the system viable.

No different than anything else you pay for in Ontario.

 

The combo is a good idea as well.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, stoney said:

 

figure out short fall, how many validation  tags are sold, increase the cost of those that goes to the “infrastructure” and keep the permit fee at a fair rate. 

win - win 👍

 

 

First off, I would like to thank everyone for their input! Many good ideas were put forth! I just threw my "solution"  out there and after all your points, I like the hybrid/combo idea. The more solutions, the better! Keep them coming.

 

Hike the Val tag to say $40 and the extra $25 is to be used only for infrastructure.

Hike the trail permits too. Although, I believe the OFSC can only raise it by a max 7% a year with MTO approval.

 

Infrastructure improvements can be quite expensive.

For example,

Re-decking a bridge. Lumber for a 50' bridge can easily exceed $10000 plus hardware etc.. 12'-14' PT 6x6s are not cheap! 

Culvert, new or replacement, 5kms in the bush. Excavator, gravel, etc. Again, not cheap.

Both of these examples may not apply to southern Ontario but as soon as you get into the Canadian Shield, it is a reality!

 

The trail permits would pay for groomers, grooming, insurance, signage, etc.. and any infrastructure outside the extra Val tag income.

 

I understand Sksman's points and I believe he may be ok with a small increase in the Val tag.

 

Using Skidooboy's northern Ontario numbers, who don't pay(Why? Don't know) for Val tag, I will round up to 100,000 southern Ontario Val tag purchasers, which would bring in an extra $2.5M and would go a long way for infrastructure improvements. It would definitely help!

 

I don't know how many of you are ATVers or OF4WD guys(I'm neither) that use the shared trails in Ontario, but if the OFSC folds, your fees and volunteer time will be going up bigly! In our area, we do all the bridge replacements(material costs shared) and coordinate most of the excavator, gravel, culvert, etc(material/equipment costs shared) trail repairs and do most of the brushing(except this year due to the March ice storm).

 

I will be going to AGM this year, (maybe I will get to meet you this year Nunz!) and if I have the opportunity, I will mention the good points being made here, as there are many workshops.  I know some of you are not big on the costs of AGM but it does give a great opportunity to get information, wisdom, knowledge, make connections, get feedback, etc from all over the province and get answers to questions from the OFSC. I learned quite a bit the last time I was there! For the hundreds of volunteer hours and thousands of $$ I spend in fuel in the truck, atv, snowmobile, chainsaw and the repairs that go with it, annually, I think it is a worthy cause and a nice thank you for your efforts. Everyone who attends is passionate about the sport and wants it to succeed!

FYI. There are many vendors there that do subsidize the cost of the AGM.

[Strong Farmer]

6 hours ago, yamadan700 said:

 

 

First off, I would like to thank everyone for their input! Many good ideas were put forth! I just threw my "solution"  out there and after all your points, I like the hybrid/combo idea. The more solutions, the better! Keep them coming.

 

Hike the Val tag to say $40 and the extra $25 is to be used only for infrastructure.

Hike the trail permits too. Although, I believe the OFSC can only raise it by a max 7% a year with MTO approval.

 

Infrastructure improvements can be quite expensive.

For example,

Re-decking a bridge. Lumber for a 50' bridge can easily exceed $10000 plus hardware etc.. 12'-14' PT 6x6s are not cheap! 

Culvert, new or replacement, 5kms in the bush. Excavator, gravel, etc. Again, not cheap.

Both of these examples may not apply to southern Ontario but as soon as you get into the Canadian Shield, it is a reality!

 

The trail permits would pay for groomers, grooming, insurance, signage, etc.. and any infrastructure outside the extra Val tag income.

 

I understand Sksman's points and I believe he may be ok with a small increase in the Val tag.

 

Using Skidooboy's northern Ontario numbers, who don't pay(Why? Don't know) for Val tag, I will round up to 100,000 southern Ontario Val tag purchasers, which would bring in an extra $2.5M and would go a long way for infrastructure improvements. It would definitely help!

 

I don't know how many of you are ATVers or OF4WD guys(I'm neither) that use the shared trails in Ontario, but if the OFSC folds, your fees and volunteer time will be going up bigly! In our area, we do all the bridge replacements(material costs shared) and coordinate most of the excavator, gravel, culvert, etc(material/equipment costs shared) trail repairs and do most of the brushing(except this year due to the March ice storm).

 

I will be going to AGM this year, (maybe I will get to meet you this year Nunz!) and if I have the opportunity, I will mention the good points being made here, as there are many workshops.  I know some of you are not big on the costs of AGM but it does give a great opportunity to get information, wisdom, knowledge, make connections, get feedback, etc from all over the province and get answers to questions from the OFSC. I learned quite a bit the last time I was there! For the hundreds of volunteer hours and thousands of $$ I spend in fuel in the truck, atv, snowmobile, chainsaw and the repairs that go with it, annually, I think it is a worthy cause and a nice thank you for your efforts. Everyone who attends is passionate about the sport and wants it to succeed!

FYI. There are many vendors there that do subsidize the cost of the AGM.

I don't think valtag will go any where with mto involved..it has been years and it's only been 15 bucks. With vehicle one being eliminated no way they raise it to  40 bucks. That revenue not designated to ofsc anyways. 
Real  answer is ofsc should be getting funding to get our gas tax money back. Do a proposal on how much fuel we use and ask for a percentage back from government. 
trail system won't be sustainable without government help and we pay allot of taxes to them too. So they should be willing to give a percentage back to keep it afloat.

Only other option is to spend less on newer equipment and or get rid of some old stuff that's costing a fortune in repairs. 
 

[95rxl650]

I would hazard a guess that the largest percentage of snowmobilers are hard working Canadians simply trying to enjoy the fruits of our labour??? The tax mules that support Liberal Canada?? 

No help coming from the government folks. Ya'll know where our money is going these days.... and the mules dont seem to matter.

Canadians are doomed, even more so in Ontario.

 

Slept in. Need more coffee.

 

[Strong Farmer]

53 minutes ago, 95rxl650 said:

I would hazard a guess that the largest percentage of snowmobilers are hard working Canadians simply trying to enjoy the fruits of our labour??? The tax mules that support Liberal Canada?? 

No help coming from the government folks. Ya'll know where our money is going these days.... and the mules dont seem to matter.

Canadians are doomed, even more so in Ontario.

 

Slept in. Need more coffee.

 

Yeah that sums it up. I don't think sled trails are a priority for any government now.  No one cares about anything really. 
Maybe ofsc could sell groomer activity to us members that are willing to pay for it. Charge me a subtication to get access to it. Could easily be a cash cow. They are already tracking groomers in real time, so they could share data with people that are willing to pay for it. I pay 150  for access this winter. Then I could plan my routes accordingly 👌

[Sksman]

Too bad Brookfield wasn’t investing in sled manufacturers or trail groomers!  
 

We would have an abundance of $$$$$$ if they were.  

[T bird]

23 hours ago, stoney said:

So, your gas taxes are paying to support the infrastructure that allows you to get to that strip, supporting your adrenaline rush!

as for the strips, grand bend and TMP always seem to do a good job of supporting their strips, st Thomas struggled for years after they lost their nhra status if I recall…do they still have that speed bump between 1/8 and 1/4 mile?

drag racing is a great memory, but I always wonder how things are going these days. 

 

St. Thomas dragway was bought the Spriets, which is I believe either engineering firm or law firm. They have put a significant amount of money into this place and have brought it around ten fold. Placebos generally busy every wknd of the summer. This wknd is big rig nationals and it’s a huge event! They have done well there I’d say from when I first started going there back in the 90’s 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

18 hours ago, mach Z said:

The system has to change now. Or we will lose it shortly.

 

Pay up!

I agree with what you are saying but I believe the MTO limits the permit price increase to 7% a year and that isn't enough.

[stoney]

24 minutes ago, T bird said:

St. Thomas dragway was bought the Spriets, which is I believe either engineering firm or law firm. They have put a significant amount of money into this place and have brought it around ten fold. Placebos generally busy every wknd of the summer. This wknd is big rig nationals and it’s a huge event! They have done well there I’d say from when I first started going there back in the 90’s 

Always like the pit area since they have trees and the others do not. 
for a while there I thought they were only running 1/8 mile due to that speed bump, I assume that is fixed.

early 90’s is when I started to go there, that’s when John force and the nhra came to that strip for the annual nationals. 
I’d say they were the first to cater to the rice racers…that your traditional drag racer really didn’t relate to very well…lol