2026 Ontario season

[scottyr]

22 hours ago, Dave K said:

Our club had a meeting last night, I was unable to go, But OFSC is requesting 20 % cut, or in D9 460 km of trail

 

If you take an average of grooming hours over the last 10 years, sadly, this actually makes sense.    We have too much trail for the amount of days they actually get used.     

 

I have heard that the OFSC is considering just TOP trails in Southern Ontario.

 

That being said they permit is too cheap.    I will be ordering my Quebec permits on Oct 1 for $425 and feel that I get good value for that price.  

 

It may be time to consider to folding up some Southern clubs to save money?     Even with the best year that we have had in the last 10 years, how many days did Tillsonburg club open for example?    One could make a case to shut down everything south of Mitchell or Exeter.

 

 

 

 

 

[signfan]

3 hours ago, Spiderman said:

What would happen if the club were to say no?

 

Anyway, clearly the slow decline to net zero is on it's way.

 

 

Convention is the clubs voice.  Clubs can very much direct the BOG there.  That said direction has to be workable.  You can’t direct them on how to spend money that doesn’t exist.  Maybe a motion should come out calling for a 20% permit price hike.  
 

 

[signfan]

https://www.snowmobilenb.com/permits/
 

$250 early season pass price doesn’t seem out of line.  Coming off a good winter.  Now is the time.

[Strong Farmer]

7 minutes ago, signfan said:

https://www.snowmobilenb.com/permits/
 

$250 early season pass price doesn’t seem out of line.  Coming off a good winter.  Now is the time.

Now or never. I don't like trail cuts, I think that happen on its own. We are struggling to open what we have each winter. If they cut 6000 kms and rest can't be open because of land owner disputes etc, it be a disaster.  I pay a surcharge too to get rid of debt over a few years. 

[signfan]

53 minutes ago, scottyr said:

 

If you take an average of grooming hours over the last 10 years, sadly, this actually makes sense.    We have too much trail for the amount of days they actually get used.     

 

I have heard that the OFSC is considering just TOP trails in Southern Ontario.

 

That being said they permit is too cheap.    I will be ordering my Quebec permits on Oct 1 for $425 and feel that I get good value for that price.  

 

It may be time to consider to folding up some Southern clubs to save money?     Even with the best year that we have had in the last 10 years, how many days did Tillsonburg club open for example?    One could make a case to shut down everything south of Mitchell or Exeter.

 

 

 

 

 

There needs to be a compromise.  Setup some areas in the south with snow making on a 200 km loop or something of that nature.  If I’m in London that might be attractive vs keeping status quo.  Quality and season length does need to be a priority.  No one wants to pay for something they can’t use.  Closing down everything in the south could cause a massive sell off of sleds though.  Where do you draw the line?  That’s the challenge.

[scottyr]

1 minute ago, signfan said:

There needs to be a compromise.  Setup some areas in the south with snow making on a 200 km loop or something of that nature.  If I’m in London that might be attractive vs keeping status quo.  Quality and season length does need to be a priority.  No one wants to pay for something they can’t use.  Closing down everything in the south could cause a massive sell off of sleds though.  Where do you draw the line?  That’s the challenge.

 Agreed.    I think this is where the idea of having only TOP main trails is coming from.     

 

Areas like Tillsonburg, Strathroy, Forest etc... might just have to get by with 1 main trail and not a full network moving forward.   

[signfan]

Yep but gotta find a snow making solution.  We have successful ski hills in Milton and Durham.  Only because they can consistently deliver products.  The customer is in the south like it or not.  They want to ride near home.

[stoney]

How do you install an infrastructure that can deliver snow like on a ski hill on private land that is giving seasonal permission to be used in the winter - I cannot see how this can be possible or a good idea when or if the land sells.

[signfan]

Ganaraska Forest gov’t owned type areas?  Or blow it all in one area in bulk and truck it out.  I agree not an easy challenge.  But the writing is on the wall with the weather in the south.  Gotta try something.  It will not look the same as we’re used to.  

[volunteer2]

23 hours ago, stoney said:

Yep, you cannot fault the OFSC for trying to make it work to keep the people on the fringe in, well some will of course, especially when frustration sets in - but at a point, tough decisions must be made and this might finally be the time for those.

 

I never really got out last year - but were the trails busy with the "good" year, restaurants packed, etc....or people surprised by the lack of riders on the trails?

I got out alot from home   weekend and thru the week   it was busy in our area  D5 and D9    alot of traffic  there were alot of sledders at the restaurants   everything was rocking   we needed this last winter to save the sport and the OFSC   and what do we get   trail cut backs     when we had our insurance costs increasing dramatically we did increase permit fees  drastically and it seemed to keep the wheels on the bus  I think we called it SOS   save our snowmobiling     And what ever happened to MOTS   more on the snow   we voted with over 70 percent in favor of MOTS    to eliminate districts and get groomers to groom more trails   Gosh that also seemed to a good way to cut costs     anyway still got alot of skin in this game   will buy 2 Ontario seasonals and 1 QC   definitely got my value from them last year  and hopefully again this year  

[stoney]

14 minutes ago, signfan said:

Ganaraska Forest gov’t owned type areas?  Or blow it all in one area in bulk and truck it out.  I agree not an easy challenge.  But the writing is on the wall with the weather in the south.  Gotta try something.  It will not look the same as we’re used to.  

Is there something/forest like that in the region that I think is being ref. - SW Ontario that has a high permit base that people always suggest will stop buying permits if the trails are lost there?

The Gana forest is a bit of a unique location where it could possibly work if it made sense - pro/con.

I would think trucking snow would be very cost prohibitive (even more so than just the basic idea of doing this) and you still need the snow on the trail via a groomer.

It could be possibly a good business model for a private entity who owns or buys land, invest in it and make some money, but need other revenue sources for entire year and it needs to make cents for owner(s) - likely never going to happen with so much risk.

[volunteer2]

15 minutes ago, signfan said:

Ganaraska Forest gov’t owned type areas?  Or blow it all in one area in bulk and truck it out.  I agree not an easy challenge.  But the writing is on the wall with the weather in the south.  Gotta try something.  It will not look the same as we’re used to.  

and that has been the problem for the sport even into Quebec   we get precip and its too warm so it's rain    when we get snow  it stays till a warm up and its gone again    trust me when I say back in 1988 our club made snow   we worked  for a week   full on  24 hrs a day  huge diesel compressor  2 snow guns from the ski hill  a firetruck pumping water from the pond  the truck ran for a week and we never shut it off  just dumped more gas into the tank   got a trim dozer guy to shape a sno cross track   the racers were all here and then it rained  and rained and it was all gone 

[Spiderman]

The blown snow needed to ski on vs. the snow that would be needed to run a sled over is insanely different. It's not possible.

 

We need better winter weather, lower cost sleds/fuel, and new riders.

 

New riders will not be new Canadians. Give that dream up. 

 

Face it, we're a small niche group - that are a dying breed - much like everything else you used to love.

 

As the song goes, Everything Dies!

[stoney]

37 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

The blown snow needed to ski on vs. the snow that would be needed to run a sled over is insanely different. It's not possible.

 

We need better winter weather, lower cost sleds/fuel, and new riders.

 

New riders will not be new Canadians. Give that dream up. 

 

Face it, we're a small niche group - that are a dying breed - much like everything else you used to love.

 

As the song goes, Everything Dies!

oh look at you, Mr. happy positive pants.....lol

But there is truth in this - find ways to enjoy it while you can.

 

man made snow I actually feel as though could be good - it is a hard pack granular type of snow with some ice in there, you would think good compaction and might work vs. the light fluffy stuff.....I know skiing on it is not the best for that reason, and when it starts to melt after a warn day on the hills, you just sort of sink into it like soup.

[Strong Farmer]

44 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

The blown snow needed to ski on vs. the snow that would be needed to run a sled over is insanely different. It's not possible.

 

We need better winter weather, lower cost sleds/fuel, and new riders.

 

New riders will not be new Canadians. Give that dream up. 

 

Face it, we're a small niche group - that are a dying breed - much like everything else you used to love.

 

As the song goes, Everything Dies!

You put more traffic on a trail too by having less trails and it be worn down way faster if it's only way.  I can't see this saving anything really. 

[Strong Farmer]

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

The blown snow needed to ski on vs. the snow that would be needed to run a sled over is insanely different. It's not possible.

 

We need better winter weather, lower cost sleds/fuel, and new riders.

 

New riders will not be new Canadians. Give that dream up. 

 

Face it, we're a small niche group - that are a dying breed - much like everything else you used to love.

 

As the song goes, Everything Dies!

Haliburton forest tried to make snow too. What happened is it  too much work. They tried to pump it out of some lakes and move it around with groomer. Found it more cost effective to just steal some snow from bush when needed now. 
I always thought about what would hspppen if we made up some kind of hot plate that would heat snow up after groomer worked it and turn it to ice so it would stay. 
Also thought about saw dust. It's a great insulator. Thin layer was put down early in season it would hold snow longer then a section without it. Most likely  preventing base from melting entirely. Maybe there is a way to brush and chip material back onto trail early in season to insulate base from melting. 

[stoney]

just use wood chips like they do at the sled show when they run sleds outside for some entertainment!

Add a rad and fan - good to go. BRP has a kit that provides that!

[Strong Farmer]

9 minutes ago, stoney said:

just use wood chips like they do at the sled show when they run sleds outside for some entertainment!

Add a rad and fan - good to go. BRP has a kit that provides that!

If we could chip brush back onto trail and smooth it out, it might mean we could ride in marginal snow conditions. It cover up rocks, mud, pot holes. Not a bad idea if we could kill two birds with one stone. 

[Spiderman]

You guys have lost your collective minds 🙂

[CAT RIDER]

6 hours ago, signfan said:

Yep but gotta find a snow making solution.  We have successful ski hills in Milton and Durham.  Only because they can consistently deliver products.  The customer is in the south like it or not.  They want to ride near home.

The last time I rode up the Milton ski hill  , the skiers on the way down didnt seem to have a sense of humor about it! LOL! Back in the mid 80s there was  a trail  that ran up an old road to the top of the escarpment  and around the top. We have not had snow like that where we could ride from home. Im sitill live in a rural area , however most properties are now posted , dont want to be that guy. The sport is dying in southern Ont. Iam a die hard and will continue to trailer to ride. Hope it lasts till  im done 

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, Spiderman said:

The blown snow needed to ski on vs. the snow that would be needed to run a sled over is insanely different. It's not possible.

 

We need better winter weather, lower cost sleds/fuel, and new riders.

 

New riders will not be new Canadians. Give that dream up. 

 

Face it, we're a small niche group - that are a dying breed - much like everything else you used to love.

 

As the song goes, Everything Dies!

 

Always the optimist eh Spidy?   😀

 

 

We are on a path to a slow death no doubt.

 

 

My 2 cents. Don't cut trails. The permit is too cheap. Raise the damn price 25% and let's see what happens.

 

 

And why is this discussion happening all hush, hush on forums and Facebook? Why doesn't the OFSC speak to its permit buyers with the problems it's facing and offer possible solutions? They got all our email addresses. 

[Strong Farmer]

46 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

 

Always the optimist eh Spidy?   😀

 

 

We are on a path to a slow death no doubt.

 

 

My 2 cents. Don't cut trails. The permit is too cheap. Raise the damn price 25% and let's see what happens.

 

 

And why is this discussion happening all hush, hush on forums and Facebook? Why doesn't the OFSC speak to its permit buyers with the problems it's facing and offer possible solutions? They got all our email addresses. 

Maybe we could start a go fund me page to cover 5 million deficit.  I be willing to pay surcharge of 100 bucks if it helps to prevent trail cuts. You know saying once we loose them, they are gone for good.  Only solution is more money. 

[Strong Farmer]

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

You guys have lost your collective minds 🙂

Riding on frozen wood chips with a cooling pond every 5 miles. Not a bad idea really. 

[skidooboy]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

And why is this discussion happening all hush, hush on forums and Facebook? Why doesn't the OFSC speak to its permit buyers with the problems it's facing and offer possible solutions? They got all our email addresses. 

 

The OFSC heads dont want the subscribers to know the change ahead of time, for permit sales. Early early permit sale isnt far off. If they can keep it quiet, then spring it on the permit purchaser after the fact, they have the money already, not much the subscriber can do. Our district(s) went through the, "only top trails will be serviced" a long time ago. If they cut much more, I will be considering getting out, for the most part. Ski 

[T bird]

12 hours ago, scottyr said:

 

If you take an average of grooming hours over the last 10 years, sadly, this actually makes sense.    We have too much trail for the amount of days they actually get used.     

 

I have heard that the OFSC is considering just TOP trails in Southern Ontario.

 

That being said they permit is too cheap.    I will be ordering my Quebec permits on Oct 1 for $425 and feel that I get good value for that price.  

 

It may be time to consider to folding up some Southern clubs to save money?     Even with the best year that we have had in the last 10 years, how many days did Tillsonburg club open for example?    One could make a case to shut down everything south of Mitchell or Exeter.

 

 

 

 

 

Totally understand your theory. … but…. I for one, love having the availability being able to trailer to Mitchell to access the greatness of D5/D9…. Take that all away from me….i become a trespasser… our Glencoe club is on the verge of this exact same issue! Already lost our groomer and 70% of our trail system… down to a staring point trail that doesn’t loop anywhere