Throw'em a bone

[stoney]

23 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I read about one a couple of months ago for  northern club trailupgredes that was I believe $550,000+ but I'm like you and not in the know.  I really think the permit price has to go up and permit enforcement has to get tough.

I agree the permit needs to be more, not trying to suggest the grants are to offset the under valued permit, but considering what the industry brings into the bucket, a little more should come out for various things. 

[Strong Farmer]

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

I do think you are right in questioning what people who complain about the cost of a permit actually do with their spare time. I honestly can’t think of anything cheaper.

 

My mens league hockey costs $625.00 for winter, $525 for summer. Thats a once a week outlet. 
 

my kids single hockey stick is $425.00. He went through 9 this season, 4 were warranty replacements, but I paid for 5. 
 

I get the OFSC needing to keep it as low as possible, but people need to be realistic with what they are getting and have a better understanding of where that money goes.

 

I always thought if they raised permits and offered a monthly payment plan start in September end in January maybe that would help sales. 300 dollar permit could be 60 a month.  I be willing to start in May and end in October if that would work better for financials 👌.

[95rxl650]

11 hours ago, Spiderman said:

 

my kids single hockey stick is $425.00. He went through 9 this season, 4 were warranty replacements, but I paid for 5. 
 

 

 

Holy freakin crap. 9 sticks today cost what a loaded 68 Dodge Charger cost when I started playing hockey. I was outfitted head to toe for less than the cost of one stick now. lol

I'm looking at an old Hespeler on the wall right now. A chunk of lumber.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

17 hours ago, Strong Farmer said:

How many riders are cheating I don't think it's a large percentage but hard to verify now

There is no easy way of telling. With on phone and printed multi days it physically looks like a lot of sleds don't have permits. To my knowledge, the club checks by "trail ambassadors" has no enforcement power behind it so anyone who wants to can drive on. 

14 hours ago, Spiderman said:

Is OPP sled patrol part of their paid duty?

I believe it is paid duty but for the number of trail km's. it is very sparce.

 

15 hours ago, Spiderman said:

does the oFSC see any of the trespass ticket revenue? Or does that go to the same place HTA violation fines go?

I bet you could count total yearly province wide trespass convictions on your fingers or add your toes at most. I've never heard of any of that money going to the OFSC.

[Spiderman]

20 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

There is no easy way of telling. With on phone and printed multi days it physically looks like a lot of sleds don't have permits. To my knowledge, the club checks by "trail ambassadors" has no enforcement power behind it so anyone who wants to can drive on. 

I believe it is paid duty but for the number of trail km's. it is very sparce.

 

I bet you could count total yearly province wide trespass convictions on your fingers or add your toes at most. I've never heard of any of that money going to the OFSC.

 

So the good news is - the OFSC are not paying for enforcement - it's already being done.

The bad news is - enforcement is primarily related to other offences - and not really permit related, and if permit related, the OFSC and member clubs don't see a dime of any fine levied for a permit infraction.

 

 

[Sksman]

The issue OFSC has for permit sales is not how to get the 5,000 - 10,000 die hard sledders to buy a $350 dollar permit but to get the occasional 3-5 time a year convenient I buy a pass for the year because I might ride guy to keep buying.   There are a lot of those guys!  
 

Where does the supply price vs demand curve cross on the charts?   
 

My area last year had no club.  How will that impact next years sales?   Down 1 permit possibly in my garage because I permitted 2 sleds last season and might not buy 2 this season if trail access not restored.

 

I know another guy that bought 2 and never rode the trails because of no connection.   So OFSC could be down 2-3 permits because of poor management decisions!   And there are a few others.

 

It’s a tough game they are playing!

[Spiderman]

43 minutes ago, Sksman said:

The issue OFSC has for permit sales is not how to get the 5,000 - 10,000 die hard sledders to buy a $350 dollar permit but to get the occasional 3-5 time a year convenient I buy a pass for the year because I might ride guy to keep buying.   There are a lot of those guys!  
 

Where does the supply price vs demand curve cross on the charts?   
 

My area last year had no club.  How will that impact next years sales?   Down 1 permit possibly in my garage because I permitted 2 sleds last season and might not buy 2 this season if trail access not restored.

 

I know another guy that bought 2 and never rode the trails because of no connection.   So OFSC could be down 2-3 permits because of poor management decisions!   And there are a few others.

 

It’s a tough game they are playing!

 

So when you're primary source of revenue is permit generated, and that number continues to decline, while operating expenses go up, it stands to reason why there is nothing left to dole out to clubs in need, and more precisely, when in need...... 

 

This particular club needs funds now - it may not exist. 

OFSC have funds when permits are purchased - i.e. fall/winter.

Money is spent

 

No easy answer here other than to try and grow the membership, while trying to lower/shed expenses.

all easier said than done, while following along with whatever other rules and restrictions are in place for the OFSC based on their operations.

 

 

 

[Strong Farmer]

44 minutes ago, Sksman said:

The issue OFSC has for permit sales is not how to get the 5,000 - 10,000 die hard sledders to buy a $350 dollar permit but to get the occasional 3-5 time a year convenient I buy a pass for the year because I might ride guy to keep buying.   There are a lot of those guys!  
 

Where does the supply price vs demand curve cross on the charts?   
 

My area last year had no club.  How will that impact next years sales?   Down 1 permit possibly in my garage because I permitted 2 sleds last season and might not buy 2 this season if trail access not restored.

 

I know another guy that bought 2 and never rode the trails because of no connection.   So OFSC could be down 2-3 permits because of poor management decisions!   And there are a few others.

 

It’s a tough game they are playing!

I lost my trail access too a number of years ago. I still buy permits and find legal places to park. I found we can ride different areas now to switch it up. I didn't trailer anymore then about 30 mins from house this year. I rode a wider variety of trails with my son that wouldn't be possible without trailer.  Trail access is a privilege and unless you get involved and do some of leg work it is impossible to count on it year after year. 

[Spiderman]

35 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

I lost my trail access too a number of years ago. I still buy permits and find legal places to park. I found we can ride different areas now to switch it up. I didn't trailer anymore then about 30 mins from house this year. I rode a wider variety of trails with my son that wouldn't be possible without trailer.  Trail access is a privilege and unless you get involved and do some of leg work it is impossible to count on it year after year. 

 

yes, but the point being, not everyone is like you or willing to do what needs to be done to go riding, its easier to say screw it than put a little effort into it.

 

You have to LOVE sledding to be in it and stay in it these days, liking it isn't enough anymore.

 

As soon as you complicate things, there are a lot of people that will just say forget it.

[signfan]

19 hours ago, Strong Farmer said:

I always thought if they raised permits and offered a monthly payment plan start in September end in January maybe that would help sales. 300 dollar permit could be 60 a month.  I be willing to start in May and end in October if that would work better for financials 👌.

This idea has merit.  July through October payment plan.

[Strong Farmer]

54 minutes ago, signfan said:

This idea has merit.  July through October payment plan.

 

56 minutes ago, signfan said:

This idea has merit.  July through October payment plan.

That way it be expense we could cross off list before Xmas, too. Ofsc could get some cash flow thru the summer to get ahead start on season prep. Also permit could be fully paid in time for November shipping so no one cancel last payment etc 👌. 

[Strong Farmer]

23 hours ago, Spiderman said:

 

So when you're primary source of revenue is permit generated, and that number continues to decline, while operating expenses go up, it stands to reason why there is nothing left to dole out to clubs in need, and more precisely, when in need...... 

 

This particular club needs funds now - it may not exist. 

OFSC have funds when permits are purchased - i.e. fall/winter.

Money is spent

 

No easy answer here other than to try and grow the membership, while trying to lower/shed expenses.

all easier said than done, while following along with whatever other rules and restrictions are in place for the OFSC based on their operations.

 

 

 

Maybe it's time family permit is tried. Give families with more then one sled a break on second and third permit like Haliburton forest does. I know they looked at it before but maybe it's a way to grow revenue by getting more sleds permitted, that are only used occasionally. 

[Strong Farmer]

On 5/26/2025 at 10:21 AM, Spiderman said:

 

So when you're primary source of revenue is permit generated, and that number continues to decline, while operating expenses go up, it stands to reason why there is nothing left to dole out to clubs in need, and more precisely, when in need...... 

 

This particular club needs funds now - it may not exist. 

OFSC have funds when permits are purchased - i.e. fall/winter.

Money is spent

 

No easy answer here other than to try and grow the membership, while trying to lower/shed expenses.

all easier said than done, while following along with whatever other rules and restrictions are in place for the OFSC based on their operations.

 

 

 

They must have some reserves and Apparantly ofsc never said no and we were told to not comment on it.
This just sounds like they wanted to be squeaky wheel without going thru whole process to get some funding/help equipment. 
We did have some bad winters were permit sales were still strong especially during Covid. Surely some got put into reserves I would hope. Reserves should be maintained at a certain level and if permits need to go up to maintain reserves that's what has to happen. 
imagine sales will be up this fall. Dealer told me all their used sleds moved well at end of March early April. My used one was one of last ones available to grab. That's a great sign too. Still had some new non currents but these people that traded were buying new ones. 👌

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

10 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

we were told to not comment on it.

That was from a District 9 Manager speaking to District 9 club directors.

 

"This just sounds like they wanted to be squeaky wheel without going thru whole process to get some funding/help equipment. "

 

There is a process the clubs are supposed to follow to receive funds for any expenses. The first step is to approach your District office for the funds as the District pays for all applicable approved club and grooming expenses within the District.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

Here's the 3 proposals for 2025-2026 Permit pricing in Quebec. The top price is early permit price:

 

 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

In all the above proposals the day permit prices are at the bottom. Their 5 day prices are more than our early annual permits.

[Mach Z]

$400 dollars who can afford that. I'm never snowmobiling again.  I'm going to sell my $20,000 snowmobiles, my $10,000 dollar trailer and I won't have to spend $150.00 a weekend on gas and $200 on food. Never mind the $1000.00 I spend on maintenance on each sled per year..............and think how much I save on the $350.00 belts

 

$400..................way too much money to spend.

[stoney]

26 minutes ago, mach Z said:

$400 dollars who can afford that. I'm never snowmobiling again.  I'm going to sell my $20,000 snowmobiles, my $10,000 dollar trailer and I won't have to spend $150.00 a weekend on gas and $200 on food. Never mind the $1000.00 I spend on maintenance on each sled per year..............and think how much I save on the $350.00 belts

 

$400..................way too much money to spend.

Yep, agreed….shut Er down. 

[Strong Farmer]

5 hours ago, mach Z said:

$400 dollars who can afford that. I'm never snowmobiling again.  I'm going to sell my $20,000 snowmobiles, my $10,000 dollar trailer and I won't have to spend $150.00 a weekend on gas and $200 on food. Never mind the $1000.00 I spend on maintenance on each sled per year..............and think how much I save on the $350.00 belts

 

$400..................way too much money to spend.

Just ride with 900 dolllars in your pocket. 😆 you don't have to spend 400 then 😆

wonder why Ontario don't have that option 😆

[Sksman]

On 5/29/2025 at 8:56 AM, mach Z said:

$400 dollars who can afford that. I'm never snowmobiling again.  I'm going to sell my $20,000 snowmobiles, my $10,000 dollar trailer and I won't have to spend $150.00 a weekend on gas and $200 on food. Never mind the $1000.00 I spend on maintenance on each sled per year..............and think how much I save on the $350.00 belts

 

$400..................way too much money to spend.

Unfortunately not all trail permit buyers are snowmobile fanatics who read snowmobile forums 12 months of the year and will pay anything to ride.  Or buy $25,000 snowmobiles every couple years.

 

There has to be a balance in order to get the local when convenient to ride from home sledders to buy when they might ride the trails a few times a year.  For them maybe there is a monetary tipping point.  
 

Last thing anyone on here should do is post up negative comments and make judgement on another person based on financial decisions to buy a permit.  
 

Maybe it is a big decision in a retired guys life to buy a trail permit when he can ride 10 year old sled down a road allowance to the lake and fish and he can be happy with that.  Not everyone is as financially secure as most of the guys reading and commenting on this forum.
 

Part of the problem with this sport is the cost and making it an affordable package to attract the new and hold the old riders  
 

In my mind to survive the trail system needs the revenues from the on the fence to buy permit riders buying also.

 

 

[stoney]

4 hours ago, Sksman said:

Unfortunately not all trail permit buyers are snowmobile fanatics who read snowmobile forums 12 months of the year and will pay anything to ride.  Or buy $25,000 snowmobiles every couple years.

 

There has to be a balance in order to get the local when convenient to ride from home sledders to buy when they might ride the trails a few times a year.  For them maybe there is a monetary tipping point.  
 

Last thing anyone on here should do is post up negative comments and make judgement on another person based on financial decisions to buy a permit.  
 

Maybe it is a big decision in a retired guys life to buy a trail permit when he can ride 10 year old sled down a road allowance to the lake and fish and he can be happy with that.  Not everyone is as financially secure as most of the guys reading and commenting on this forum.
 

Part of the problem with this sport is the cost and making it an affordable package to attract the new and hold the old riders  
 

In my mind to survive the trail system needs the revenues from the on the fence to buy permit riders buying also.

 

 

The OFSC has tried to make it appealing and affordable, I’m afraid it hasn’t worked for reasons they cannot control. 
The reality that most can agree on is the sport is expensive, permit being one of the cheapest today is the point, that’s not changing, so come to terms with that and move on. 
stop trying to pretend it should be an inclusive sport, it no longer is. 
sorry, but that’s the reality IMO. 

[95rxl650]

11 hours ago, stoney said:

The OFSC has tried to make it appealing and affordable, I’m afraid it hasn’t worked for reasons they cannot control. 
The reality that most can agree on is the sport is expensive, permit being one of the cheapest today is the point, that’s not changing, so come to terms with that and move on. 
stop trying to pretend it should be an inclusive sport, it no longer is. 
sorry, but that’s the reality IMO. 

I agree sledding has priced itself into the "exclusive" sport category. Gear and accessories alone can add up quickly. 

However, we have a few sleds that run around private farm lands  and ditches and got used alot this year by friends and family that have never taken an interest in the sport previously. They got rolled over and stuck all winter and the riders had a ball. Three of them now have newer used sleds from those experiences. The heavy snowfall this year made it possible for them to have some fun they didnt know they were missing. The sleds are older but not eligible for classic passes so none were registered or insured for trail riding. As ofsc trails cross some of these properties I can neither confirm or deny that they may have seen abit of trail running in the hands of a couple folks, but either way, it brought them into the sport as legitimate riders. 

I think that if classic permits were based on 15 year old sleds again, we might see more people riding something more affordable just to have the experience. Once on the trails, there's the natural progression that comes with that experience. No different than fast cars or boats. It's addictive. Not all of us, but alot of us became addicts the first time we had the experience. The opportunity just had to present itself. 

Just the opinion of a hopeless addict with a tolerant wife. 😁 

[stoney]

1 hour ago, 95rxl650 said:

I agree sledding has priced itself into the "exclusive" sport category. Gear and accessories alone can add up quickly. 

However, we have a few sleds that run around private farm lands  and ditches and got used alot this year by friends and family that have never taken an interest in the sport previously. They got rolled over and stuck all winter and the riders had a ball. Three of them now have newer used sleds from those experiences. The heavy snowfall this year made it possible for them to have some fun they didnt know they were missing. The sleds are older but not eligible for classic passes so none were registered or insured for trail riding. As ofsc trails cross some of these properties I can neither confirm or deny that they may have seen abit of trail running in the hands of a couple folks, but either way, it brought them into the sport as legitimate riders. 

I think that if classic permits were based on 15 year old sleds again, we might see more people riding something more affordable just to have the experience. Once on the trails, there's the natural progression that comes with that experience. No different than fast cars or boats. It's addictive. Not all of us, but alot of us became addicts the first time we had the experience. The opportunity just had to present itself. 

Just the opinion of a hopeless addict with a tolerant wife. 😁 

I was thinking the same thing about people having the opportunity to go on a lake, field, etc…to have a chance to be exposed, or best case friend or family that has spare sled to try it out. 
For me it was a family that let me try his sled, that turned into a weekend rental trip and then my own purchase. 

But that does not change the permit price or change who will come, IMO - if they decide at that point they enjoy it, thoughts turn to many of the other expenses in order to dive in, that will not become cheaper in this day and age that no one can influence. 
 

Set permit price at what it needs to be (the cheapest part of the sport) and enforce the use of the trails by the means required. 
For anyone using the permit as a reason not to stay in the sport, are already done with it or looking for reasons to be, and are just complaining about nothing. 
 

The permit I bought this year, I am not even sure made it into my sled, I know for sure I did not ride any OFSC trails…which I think makes that two years in a row for me…lol!

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

1 hour ago, stoney said:

Set permit price at what it needs to be (the cheapest part of the sport) and enforce the use of the trails by the means required. 

YES!

[Spiderman]

The OFSC hand clubs have done absolutely everything they can to drive new ridership.

 

overall costs and lousy weather are working against it.

 
I have taken 10 plus friends sledding for the 1st time.

not oneof them has bought a sled, and isn’t because they didn’t enjoy it.

 

cost and time are the factors