Throw'em a bone

[2strokemerc]

You'd think the OFSC could throw a little money at the ODSC, what do they do with all that money?

 

https://www.barrietoday.com/local-news/real-trouble-snowmobile-club-forced-to-navigate-costly-trail-cleanup-crisis-on-its-own-10690729

[signfan]

Convention is coming.  The club also has a governor sitting on the provincial board.

[Strong Farmer]

27 minutes ago, 2strokemerc said:

You'd think the OFSC could throw a little money at the ODSC, what do they do with all that money?

 

https://www.barrietoday.com/local-news/real-trouble-snowmobile-club-forced-to-navigate-costly-trail-cleanup-crisis-on-its-own-10690729

Big grooming year so I am guessing it was used up grooming trails this winter. Big costs per km of trail. I heard it costs around 500 a km to just do normal activities like grooming, signage, equipment repairs pay operators (if they accept it) insurance for trails is super pricey too. 

[Dave K]

From our district manager.

 

Hi Club Executive,

I wanted to bring to your attention an article published yesterday in Orillia Today regarding the lack of OFSC funding for ice damage on snowmobile trails in the Orillia area.

After reaching out directly to the OFSC, I have confirmed that this article was not fact-checked prior to publication, and the OFSC was not given a reasonable opportunity to respond. They are currently determining the next appropriate course of action.

This type of misrepresentation is damaging to our clubs, undermines permit sales, and could negatively impact our relationships with the MTO. It also stands in direct violation of the OFSC Code of Conduct. 

In the meantime, all District 9 clubs are asked to:

• Not share this article on their Facebook pages.
• Remove it immediately if it has already been posted.
• Refrain from commenting on or liking the article if encountered on other pages.

Thank you for your attention to this matter and for helping to protect the integrity of our organization

[yamadan700]

Permit revenue is down approx 10% over the last 5 years. Expenses are up over the revenue received. Groomers and their expenses aren't cheap. There's not much left in the OFSC pot. Changes will be happening. 

 

The ODSC should be going through their District first to see what's available instead of going to the OFSC. Don't know their situation. Just reading the article.

There could also be grants available through the Government of Ontario that they/district/OFSC may be able to be access.

 

We rented a 4wd backhoe last year for a few days to go through as much of our trails as feasible. It was a good investment as the backhoe can clear many of the downed trees quickly, fill in low spots and help drain the water holes etc.. It wasn't a huge investment but we do have a very skilled operator/volunteer that ran it for the rental period. It probably saved us weeks of work to do manually. I would imagine that ODSC could do the same and it may fall within their budget or the district's budget. Again, don't know. Just speculation.

[2strokemerc]

Must be an issue or there wouldn't be a news story.

Like everything, there's this side and that side. Truth is somewhere in the middle.

Perhaps ODSC needs to be more patient.

I'd imagine that the other clubs in the area have the same problem due to ice storm.

[Strong Farmer]

1 hour ago, 2strokemerc said:

Must be an issue or there wouldn't be a news story.

Like everything, there's this side and that side. Truth is somewhere in the middle.

Perhaps ODSC needs to be more patient.

I'd imagine that the other clubs in the area have the same problem due to ice storm.

Haliburton was hit hard too. They seem to be handling it well but they defiantly have some great volunteers too. I see pics of rail trail there it's a mess too. Kudos to everyone helping out.  

[mach Z]

Maybe raise permit prices to a necessary level....................

[Spiderman]

Tough, but I can see both sides of this, common ground will surface at some point.

[signfan]

Have to take it back to the OFSC's core mission.

 

Its core mission is to provide leadership and resources to member clubs, ensuring exceptional trails and riding experiences across the province. 

 

This club is highlighting a resource issue.  Maybe going public isn't preferred, but some press highlighting issues the provincial organization and this particular club is facing isn't necessarily a terrible thing.  I rode their trails this past winter and they we're doing a great job.  Hopefully OFSC management views this as an opportunity to improve.  Also an opportunity to find new sources of emergency funding.  A state of emergency was declared in Orillia during the ice storm.  That brings access to funding from senior levels of government.  Why wouldn't repairing trail infrastructure qualify for help.

[yamadan700]

Our area is a complete mess as well.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

We will all get there but it will take time.

 

OFSC.

When your outgo exceeds your income, then your upkeep becomes your downfall. Funds are tight FWIW.

 

ODSC

They should also reach out to the city, township and county to see if they have any funds available. They may be surprised.

Snowmobiling is a economic benefit to their region so they may receive financial assistance from their local governments. A few thousand $$$ here and there can go a long way.

 

[Strong Farmer]

3 hours ago, yamadan700 said:

Our area is a complete mess as well.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

We will all get there but it will take time.

 

OFSC.

When your outgo exceeds your income, then your upkeep becomes your downfall. Funds are tight FWIW.

 

ODSC

They should also reach out to the city, township and county to see if they have any funds available. They may be surprised.

Snowmobiling is a economic benefit to their region so they may receive financial assistance from their local governments. A few thousand $$$ here and there can go a long way.

 

I pay a surcharge on my permit this fall if I knew it would go towards helping to clean up the trails and take some burden off volunteers.  

[stoney]

Gas tax on vehicles maintains our roads, and many other things. 
Gas tax on sleds should help maintain the trails.

It really should not be a hard argument to win or justify, and if not in place annually already, why not. 

Same argument can be used for boats, if not already for locks, etc…

[Strong Farmer]

9 minutes ago, stoney said:

Gas tax on vehicles maintains our roads, and many other things. 
Gas tax on sleds should help maintain the trails.

It really should not be a hard argument to win or justify, and if not in place annually already, why not. 

Same argument can be used for boats, if not already for locks, etc…

Municipalities complain about road damage at trail crossings too. Our gas tax should be more than enough to cover those minor repairs.   They never give us gas tax back to maintain trails even though mto is in control of permits. You have  great point.
I be ok with a sur charge if it was used to maintain trails in these kinds of circumstances and put aside in years not needed in reserves. Something has to be done to make things easier for volunteers then run around there are no funds available 💩.  

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

I believe the grants the OFSC get from the Ontario Government directly or indirectly come partly from fuel and licensing fees.

[stoney]

10 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I believe the grants the OFSC get from the Ontario Government directly or indirectly come partly from fuel and licensing fees.

But I seem to hear those grants are not consistent or not that much, but I’m not in the know. 
Sticker amount would be what, $15 x XX number of sleds, I’d think 100k as an easy number. 
Add the financial impact shedders have for all other things and that’s another big number. 
so you have:

- gas tax

- license fee

- Major economy booster 

 

 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

I read about one a couple of months ago for  northern club trailupgredes that was I believe $550,000+ but I'm like you and not in the know.  I really think the permit price has to go up and permit enforcement has to get tough.

[Strong Farmer]

9 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I read about one a couple of months ago for  northern club trailupgredes that was I believe $550,000+ but I'm like you and not in the know.  I really think the permit price has to go up and permit enforcement has to get tough.

We use to get almost 5 million then it was clawed back to 3, i believe. Now ofsc is lucky to get 1.5, I  think  Not sure if this grant is part of usual 1.5 or is it additional money? I figure gas tax alone is worth 3 to 4 million on sleds  depending on how you calculate it.  Sleds have become more efficient. This winter I put  approx  5 tanks of fuel thru my sled. 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

I do not believe we will see big dollar funding from the provincial governmant any time in the future. They don't seem to have enough money to keep our roads in decent condition and that should be a much higher priority than sled trails. It's time for us to pay a more realistic amount for permits if this sport is to continue to support the trails we have in Ontario. I'm sure there are a lot of riders who spent more in 24 hours this past winter snowmobiling than what their permit cost.

[Spiderman]

12 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I read about one a couple of months ago for  northern club trailupgredes that was I believe $550,000+ but I'm like you and not in the know.  I really think the permit price has to go up and permit enforcement has to get tough.

We all “know” it has to go up.

Common sense would tell you that.

 

On the flip side though, put yourself in the OFSC shoes. The #1 complaint ( for reasons I can’t understand ) is the cost of the permit.

 
it is impossible for them to put the permit price to where it should be, and keep people sledding. They can’t win in any facet.

 

All they can do is look to reduce expenditures if they are not going to increase permit costs, all the while trying to increase ridership and permit sales.

 

there is only so much $$$ to go around.

 

 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

If they really want to increase income they need to really increase permit enforcement. The way it currently is there is very minimal enforcement. Riders can ride with paperwork or phone proof so it is very hard to tell if passing sleds actually have a permit and that affords the freeloaders even more opportunity to ride unchecked. 

Permits are getting placed on sleds wherever the rider desires (we saw 2 Doo's near Mattawa this winter with the permits on back side of the left side A arm plastic tunnel cutouts). 

You see very few sleds without permits in Quebec because they have exceptional enforcement and stiff fines. 

[Strong Farmer]

31 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

If they really want to increase income they need to really increase permit enforcement. The way it currently is there is very minimal enforcement. Riders can ride with paperwork or phone proof so it is very hard to tell if passing sleds actually have a permit and that affords the freeloaders even more opportunity to ride unchecked. 

Permits are getting placed on sleds wherever the rider desires (we saw 2 Doo's near Mattawa this winter with the permits on back side of the left side A arm plastic tunnel cutouts). 

You see very few sleds without permits in Quebec because they have exceptional enforcement and stiff fines. 

Duffern county (shelburne Dundalk area) really checks. They are out often in that area. Never seen any enforcement south of highway 86 anymore maybe I am just missing them 🤷🏽‍♂️.  Listowel checks often too usually on trail coming into town. 
We need to raise permits for sure. How many riders are cheating I don't think it's a large percentage but hard to verify now. Some could be riding with multi day permits too. Conestoga lake area club said they seen sleds often with no permits too (maybe just not placed in visible obvious area's) 

 

[Spiderman]

3 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

If they really want to increase income they need to really increase permit enforcement. The way it currently is there is very minimal enforcement. Riders can ride with paperwork or phone proof so it is very hard to tell if passing sleds actually have a permit and that affords the freeloaders even more opportunity to ride unchecked. 

Permits are getting placed on sleds wherever the rider desires (we saw 2 Doo's near Mattawa this winter with the permits on back side of the left side A arm plastic tunnel cutouts). 

You see very few sleds without permits in Quebec because they have exceptional enforcement and stiff fines. 

Is OPP sled patrol part of their paid duty? Or considered “extra”?

 

Also, does the oFSC see any of the trespass ticket revenue? Or does that go to the same place HTA violation fines go?

[95rxl650]

6 hours ago, Spiderman said:

We all “know” it has to go up.

Common sense would tell you that.

 

On the flip side though, put yourself in the OFSC shoes. The #1 complaint ( for reasons I can’t understand ) is the cost of the permit.

 
it is impossible for them to put the permit price to where it should be, and keep people sledding. They can’t win in any facet.

 

All they can do is look to reduce expenditures if they are not going to increase permit costs, all the while trying to increase ridership and permit sales.

 

there is only so much $$$ to go around.

 

 

People that whine about permit costs obviously have no other outlet for fun and ride without a permit anyway. It's a small drop in the expense bucket. It cost me more to respool a few reels just for early spring fishing not to mention the rest of the years seasonal fishing. 

Whats a couple Starbucks a day cost? Or going to a concert or even taking the family out for a decent meal. 

People need to realize the cost of entertainment is always costly. A trail permit is about as cheap as it gets. Volunteers wont be there forever if they cant get an assist when Shyte goes south. It's alot of physical output to clean up messes like we've had and guys with time on their hands are usually older. I'm sure a rowboat a beer and a bobber to stare at seems more appealing on a hot summer day.

[Spiderman]

1 hour ago, 95rxl650 said:

People that whine about permit costs obviously have no other outlet for fun and ride without a permit anyway. It's a small drop in the expense bucket. It cost me more to respool a few reels just for early spring fishing not to mention the rest of the years seasonal fishing. 

Whats a couple Starbucks a day cost? Or going to a concert or even taking the family out for a decent meal. 

People need to realize the cost of entertainment is always costly. A trail permit is about as cheap as it gets. Volunteers wont be there forever if they cant get an assist when Shyte goes south. It's alot of physical output to clean up messes like we've had and guys with time on their hands are usually older. I'm sure a rowboat a beer and a bobber to stare at seems more appealing on a hot summer day.

I do think you are right in questioning what people who complain about the cost of a permit actually do with their spare time. I honestly can’t think of anything cheaper.

 

My mens league hockey costs $625.00 for winter, $525 for summer. Thats a once a week outlet. 
 

my kids single hockey stick is $425.00. He went through 9 this season, 4 were warranty replacements, but I paid for 5. 
 

I get the OFSC needing to keep it as low as possible, but people need to be realistic with what they are getting and have a better understanding of where that money goes.