2025 OFSC permit now available for Order

[signfan]

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

 Our entire preferred riding area is private land - other than the lake trail and the road trail!

 

We need landowners generosity or we're dead in the water.

And no, I don't think the government should be able to just "take" or "designate" anything from anyone's bought and paid for property for anything other than what those who paid for it desire it to be used for.

 

Expropriation for recreational trails would be a tough sell.  Would be nice to have a system where easements could be bought over time though through willing parties with a fund and process setup to allow it to occur.  In the long run that could make a big difference.  Work away at it piece by piece.  MTO and local governments could be a lot more co-operative too.  Some fundamental changes to their legal exposure of hosting a trail would be very beneficial and some direction from gov't that co-operating to put trails on secure land is not optional would also go along way.

[yamadan700]

20 hours ago, stoney said:

 

 

Who owns all the ATV trails in the province that are shared between the two sports now?

I thought it was crown land, maybe some is private - if private, you bring up government trying to control that, say bye bye to that land use.....that was a huge issue a few years ago when we saw all those sign about "hands off our land".

 

For crown land, I know this has been mentioned a number of times, but if a sled trail runs on that, can anyone technically use it without needing to follow the OFSC guidelines during the sledding season or once OFSC gets approval for use of that land during the season, they become the caretaker/owner of it for the sledding season and the OFSC rules need to be followed/enforced?

In my area, we share some of our trails with the ATV and OF4WD clubs. Most of it is Crown land but there is some private land mixed in there. We have a good relationship with both clubs and the landowners.

 

Crown Land that allows motorized vehicles.

Snowmobiles have to follow the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act(MSVA). If you are snowmobiling on a OFSC Prescribed Trail on Crown Land, you need to follow the Act and the OFSC rules, ie trail permit, etc. However, you can run your recreational bulldozer, ATV, truck, skid steer, electric scooter, PWC, etc on a OFSC Prescribed Trail on Crown Land as they don't have to follow the MSVA rules. They don't have any "Acts" to follow. The OPP can charge them with mischief if they are destroying the trail, ie doing donuts, trenching, etc,  but that's about it.

It's a huge PITA for many clubs across the province every year, especially when we are trying to establish a base.

Edited November 2, 2024 by yamadan700
clarification

[Strong Farmer]

9 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

So it's OK with you if the government takes some of your farmland for this purpose.

I gladly give permission for an ofsc trail if one existed in my area. Permanent easement that hikers, dog walkers etc going to use all year no thank-you.  

[Yukon]

18 hours ago, Spiderman said:

Yeah, I recall the number being quite large - not sure what it was.

That said, its the same old anyway, we can beat that drum all we want - the "government" does not care.

 

We had a discussion yesterday about some of this stuff.

 

The one person made a good point - that federally - there isn't much we can do - or try to do - to hold anyone federally accountable to anything that will bring meaningful change to our lives.

 

Where we need to focus the energy is provincially and locally - because that is where anything that will better your actual life will get done or could be done.

 

It makes sense to me

 

anyways, back on topic.

 

$1 million dollars for the OFSC is a slap in the face

6 Billion dollars in economic impact for Ontario!

[Panther340]

11 hours ago, Strong Farmer said:

I gladly give permission for an ofsc trail if one existed in my area. Permanent easement that hikers, dog walkers etc going to use all year no thank-you.  

And that is why shared trails with other users eg ATVs causes pause for private land owners,  summer use is assumed by non paying characters.  

[stoney]

1 hour ago, Yukon said:

6 Billion dollars in economic impact for Ontario!

Lol, I knew it was a large number that until you bring it to light, it’s not taken as seriously as it should be. 
I mentioned this before, but making this number more easily publicly accessible/visible and a breakdown where the numbers come from would shed a massive positive light on this sport!

[Strong Farmer]

2 hours ago, Yukon said:

6 Billion dollars in economic impact for Ontario!

Defiantly not last winter. Ford a snowmobiler  too and seen a picture of him on a sled in musoka some where. Can't remember if it was him or his brother Rob at time. 

[Blackstar]

On 11/1/2024 at 9:09 AM, signfan said:

Your numbers are way off.  Under $1 million per year.

 

I believe that money comes with a bunch of restrictions on how it can be spent as well.

[Yukon]

10 hours ago, stoney said:

Lol, I knew it was a large number that until you bring it to light, it’s not taken as seriously as it should be. 
I mentioned this before, but making this number more easily publicly accessible/visible and a breakdown where the numbers come from would shed a massive positive light on this sport!

This is where I would expect to find the info???

 

Publicly accessible?

 

https://www.ofsc.on.ca/2023/11/09/snowmobile-trails-in-ontario-can-generate-annual-economic-impact-up-to-6b/

[Strong Farmer]

On 11/1/2024 at 5:02 PM, signfan said:

Expropriation for recreational trails would be a tough sell.  Would be nice to have a system where easements could be bought over time though through willing parties with a fund and process setup to allow it to occur.  In the long run that could make a big difference.  Work away at it piece by piece.  MTO and local governments could be a lot more co-operative too.  Some fundamental changes to their legal exposure of hosting a trail would be very beneficial and some direction from gov't that co-operating to put trails on secure land is not optional would also go along way.

Ofsc has very good liability insurance. My friend has trails on his property they have not many issues with snowmobilers. They are thrilled to get a few pairs of leather work gloves from local club.

If it's going to help keep trails open,  I be all for raising permit prices and ofsc coming up with some sort of gift for every land owner. I know they don't want to go there. Land owner dinners seem to be popular here too and it's a chance to get neighbour's together and have a good time for an evening, seems to go a long way too. 
Obviously some of these things won't work when  investors  own the land.  That's really our worst enemy for most part. 

[Spiderman]

16 hours ago, Yukon said:

This is where I would expect to find the info???

 

Publicly accessible?

 

https://www.ofsc.on.ca/2023/11/09/snowmobile-trails-in-ontario-can-generate-annual-economic-impact-up-to-6b/

Thanks for the link.

No doubt there is a connection between sledding and it providing necessary dollars into areas where it is depended upon. There is a lot to take away from that detail - but "can" is an important one. There is a big difference between "can" and "does".

 

Obviously, both are important when lobbying - but that is all with a grain of salt when you're on the handing out end of things.

 

I when I think of my current contribution to sledding as of today, it rests with the purchase of a permit, a few parts here and there ( retailer ) maybe some food that day ( restaurant/retail ) and some gas tax collected on my consumption. Its small.

 

My insurance bill goes straight to the ins. co and does nothing overall for the activity or stimulation of the Ontario economy.

[Strong Farmer]

4 hours ago, Spiderman said:

Thanks for the link.

No doubt there is a connection between sledding and it providing necessary dollars into areas where it is depended upon. There is a lot to take away from that detail - but "can" is an important one. There is a big difference between "can" and "does".

 

Obviously, both are important when lobbying - but that is all with a grain of salt when you're on the handing out end of things.

 

I when I think of my current contribution to sledding as of today, it rests with the purchase of a permit, a few parts here and there ( retailer ) maybe some food that day ( restaurant/retail ) and some gas tax collected on my consumption. Its small.

 

My insurance bill goes straight to the ins. co and does nothing overall for the activity or stimulation of the Ontario economy.

Government always take advantage of something until it's gone. They didn't save manufacturing sector, why are they going to save sledding.
Talking about approving high speed rail line from Toronto to Montreal. Be a quick way to get to Quebec to do some riding 🤡

[stoney]

23 hours ago, Yukon said:

This is where I would expect to find the info???

 

Publicly accessible?

 

https://www.ofsc.on.ca/2023/11/09/snowmobile-trails-in-ontario-can-generate-annual-economic-impact-up-to-6b/

Awesome - thanks, Paul!

 

I went to the website to see where it was or could be found vs. your link and I see it’s an embedded link under another article, “in the news”.

Do you happen to know if this is something they include on radio or other forms of advertizing to get info out there to the people who wouldn’t navigate the OFSC site to find or locate these details?

 

Pretty big gap in financial impacts that it has, 3 to 6 billion - that is surprising there is that large a delta year over year. 

 

 

[Strong Farmer]

Got my permit like always. Great value and can't wait to get out there once weather and trails are open. Looking forward to a great winter once artic air arrives 😎

[skidooboy]

Ordered our permits the 25th, received the email confirming the order but, have not received the email that they were shipped. We havent been to the house in Dub to check the mailbox since ordering. Did anyone get their permits, with no shipping confirmation email? Thanks in advance. Ski

[Domino]

14 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

Ordered our permits the 25th, received the email confirming the order but, have not received the email that they were shipped. We havent been to the house in Dub to check the mailbox since ordering. Did anyone get their permits, with no shipping confirmation email? Thanks in advance. Ski

I also ordered on the 25th.   No notice of shipping, No permits as of yet.

[Yukon]

14 hours ago, stoney said:

Awesome - thanks, Paul!

 

I went to the website to see where it was or could be found vs. your link and I see it’s an embedded link under another article, “in the news”.

Do you happen to know if this is something they include on radio or other forms of advertizing to get info out there to the people who wouldn’t navigate the OFSC site to find or locate these details?

 

Pretty big gap in financial impacts that it has, 3 to 6 billion - that is surprising there is that large a delta year over year. 

 

 

This was studied a year ago and reevaluated to 6 billion.

 

I am not sure if this is included in public marketing. However it is widely used from club, District and Provincial levels as a marketing tool towards public,  private stakeholders and landowner relations. 

 

There was a media release for it!

[Strong Farmer]

40 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

Ordered our permits the 25th, received the email confirming the order but, have not received the email that they were shipped. We havent been to the house in Dub to check the mailbox since ordering. Did anyone get their permits, with no shipping confirmation email? Thanks in advance. Ski

Same for me I ordered later then you but still before deadline. Nothing yet. I am guessing flood of orders at last week has delayed processing and shipping.  Could be a few more weeks before email of it being shipped is sent is my guess.  Last few years email of it being sent has been accurate, so no worries. 

[stoney]

1 hour ago, skidooboy said:

Ordered our permits the 25th, received the email confirming the order but, have not received the email that they were shipped. We havent been to the house in Dub to check the mailbox since ordering. Did anyone get their permits, with no shipping confirmation email? Thanks in advance. Ski

 

1 hour ago, Domino said:

I also ordered on the 25th.   No notice of shipping, No permits as of yet.

For me I ordered on the 31st and other than a confirmation email, nothing else yet......but that was just 2 business days ago.

[stoney]

1 hour ago, Yukon said:

This was studied a year ago and reevaluated to 6 billion.

 

I am not sure if this is included in public marketing. However it is widely used from club, District and Provincial levels as a marketing tool towards public,  private stakeholders and landowner relations. 

 

There was a media release for it!

Ya, I saw the dates and quickly looked at the report from 2023.

https://www.ofsc.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/2023-Economic-Impact-of-Snowmobile-Trails-in-Ontario-Web-5.pdf

 

Internally shared is great, plus being able to point people to the study is a great tool as well. 

 

2022-2023 At A Glance

• Snowmobiling-related Economic Activity for Ontario: $3B – $6B Annually
• Expenditures by OFSC Snowmobile Trail Riders: $1.48 Billion
• Full Time Jobs Supported by OFSC Snowmobile Trails: 9,307
• Taxes Generated by OFSC Snowmobile Trails: $538 Million

(Barrie, ON. November 9, 2023) – The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) has released a new study, “The Economic Impact of Snowmobile Trails in Ontario”, based on expenditure data from the 2022-2023 season. This 2023 report clearly shows that the provincial network of over 30,000 kilometres of OFSC Prescribed Snowmobile Trails is Ontario’s most valuable recreational trail network and a key pillar of our winter tourism economy. As a volunteer-led, not-for-profit association with 181 member organizations, the OFSC manages these premier snowmobile trails, which connect snowbelt communities while providing safe, enjoyable, and environmentally sustainable riding experiences for Ontarians.

 

The new study found that in the 2022-2023 season, expenditures by snowmobilers riding OFSC snowmobile trails increased to $1.48 billion, up from $843 million in 2019. In turn, these 2022-2023 expenditures resulted in an estimated $3 billion of snowmobiling-related economic activity for Ontario. Meanwhile, snowmobile trails directly supported 9,307 full time jobs in 2022-2023, while generating $538 million in taxes across three levels of government: $239 million in federal taxes, $258 million in provincial taxes, and $41 million in municipal taxes.

Despite low snow conditions in some locations last winter, the $3 billion of 2022-2023 economic activity is almost double that reported in two previous studies: $1.6 billion in 2019 and $1.7 billion in 2014. Therefore, the new study estimates that OFSC snowmobile trails have the potential to generate a total annual economic impact of between $3 billion and $6 billion in any given season, dependent on factors such as weather. For the first time, the study also assessed the total monetary value that OFSC snowmobile club volunteers contribute to Ontario’s economy as more than $16.4 million annually.

“This study reaffirms our position that Ontario’s winter tourism economy runs on snowmobiling,” said Ryan Eickmeier, OFSC CEO. “The economic impact of our snowmobile trails is especially important to rural and northern Ontario, and the contributions our volunteers make each and every year is truly remarkable. ”

The OFSC retained Harry Cummings & Associates (HCA) Ltd to assess the impact of snowmobile trails during the winter of 2022-23, using the Ontario Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Sport’s Tourism Regional Economic Impact Model (TREIM). This study is an update to others conducted by HCA in 2014 and 2019, and also includes a breakdown of economic impact numbers for each of the OFSC’s 16 districts.

A copy of the new report can be found here: 2022-2023 Economic Impact Study

 

[skidooboy]

Received my shipping confirmation yesterday. Should have it the next time we are in town. Ski

[Strong Farmer]

50 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

Received my shipping confirmation yesterday. Should have it the next time we are in town. Ski

It ship faster then that usually get it in a few buisness days but might take abit longer to go to dub. 

[ontariof7]

On 11/4/2024 at 9:21 AM, Domino said:

I also ordered on the 25th.   No notice of shipping, No permits as of yet.

No permits for you! Said the permit nazi... ; ) 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

I ordered one permit on the 20th and received it quickly. I ordered a second permit on the evening of the 30th and have received shipping confirmation.

The difference in the permit #'s indicate they processed 20,418 between my 2 orders and that they had sold more than 31,000 permits before the end of the early order period.

[Strong Farmer]

3 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I ordered one permit on the 20th and received it quickly. I ordered a second permit on the evening of the 30th and have received shipping confirmation.

The difference in the permit #'s indicate they processed 20,418 between my 2 orders and that they had sold more than 31,000 permits before the end of the early order period.

Nice I ordered on Nov 1 no email yet. No rush at moment hopefully that number ends up at closer to 50k 😎