2024 Snowcrest Agm

[stoney]

2 hours ago, Spiderman said:

 

Well, the rider won't see the trail on the map - so presumably should not be on it to begin with?

 

I don't use the ITG or gps or any of that stuff, so we'll see how things go out there lol

 

That is correct, based on leaving the entire trail off the ITG as suggested that may have a section not yet "approved".....reduces the potential problems surrounding showing a partial trail.

Kind of sucks, but understand the rational of it should this situation occur.

 

As for not using the intended apps to check the status, that is another discussion that causes another situation....lol, but that is also a reality. 

[Spiderman]

40 minutes ago, stoney said:

That is correct, based on leaving the entire trail off the ITG as suggested that may have a section not yet "approved".....reduces the potential problems surrounding showing a partial trail.

Kind of sucks, but understand the rational of it should this situation occur.

 

As for not using the intended apps to check the status, that is another discussion that causes another situation....lol, but that is also a reality. 

Say Trail 1 ( # example ) is on the ITG - rider checks on-line- its "open" and they decide to ride it that day.

Eventually it is going to come to/intersect a trail NOT on the ITG ( LUP issue as an example ). 

Once one track goes down there - we all know where that leads to 

The clubs or Property owners are going to need something like a sign - saying "closed" - and some caution tape or some form of a barrier closing that section off.

Leaving it off the ITG alone is not going to be enough when you have perfectly good open trails leading right on up to it.

 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

15 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

Say Trail 1 ( # example ) is on the ITG - rider checks on-line- its "open" and they decide to ride it that day.

Eventually it is going to come to/intersect a trail NOT on the ITG ( LUP issue as an example ). 

Once one track goes down there - we all know where that leads to 

The clubs or Property owners are going to need something like a sign - saying "closed" - and some caution tape or some form of a barrier closing that section off.

Leaving it off the ITG alone is not going to be enough when you have perfectly good open trails leading right on up to it.

 

Unfortunately Trail Closed signs and caution tape do not work for many riders of an age that should know better let alone the stand up crowd. They know that the police are the only ones that can hold them accountable and they are unfortunately few and far between.

[Spiderman]

3 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Unfortunately Trail Closed signs and caution tape do not work for many riders of an age that should know better let alone the stand up crowd. They know that the police are the only ones that can hold them accountable and they are unfortunately few and far between.

100% - will not stop them - idiots will always be idiots.

Doing nothing is not a good defence once the claim comes across you're table

All the police can do is issue them a trespassing ticket - whoopee

 

[95rxl650]

So my crystal ball showed me a sneek peek of a new breed of rider that has yet to invade our beloved hobby due to a climate adjustment period. Any guesses on who and how that is going to effect things?? 

I can see the drop spots turning into the wild west like a couple launch ramps I've been to. 

[stoney]

48 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

Say Trail 1 ( # example ) is on the ITG - rider checks on-line- its "open" and they decide to ride it that day.

Eventually it is going to come to/intersect a trail NOT on the ITG ( LUP issue as an example ). 

Once one track goes down there - we all know where that leads to 

The clubs or Property owners are going to need something like a sign - saying "closed" - and some caution tape or some form of a barrier closing that section off.

Leaving it off the ITG alone is not going to be enough when you have perfectly good open trails leading right on up to it.

 

Yep, 100% accurate.

 

Which leads to next possible scenario, trail #2 that intersect with trail #1 has a stretch that has signatures but 50 miles down that trail there is another property owner with no signatures - does club A continue to maintain the first 50 miles of trail but put a trail closed sign up, because they are expecting the signature any week or day and they want to get a head start on what they can when help is available, plus we all know packing the snow that is possibly there just helps that trails last longer as the season goes on, trim fallen trees, etc.....

 

[topnotch]

The trails on the ITG will be removed back to the nearest intersecting trail with a land use agreement. So a club won't have the option to have a trail lead to a property without a land use agreement. 

 

It'll definitely be a mess to start to the season, and we don't know what the logistics will look like because you can't cross a property with a groomer if no land use agreement,  even if there's property on the other side of it. Floating equipment that won't be viable, so clubs with more than 1 groomer might not be able to utilize them. Which results is less paid grooming hours which effects the budget.

 

Our volunteers are working hard at

getting these land use agreements and I know other clubs are as well. It just takes time. 

[Spiderman]

2 hours ago, topnotch said:

The trails on the ITG will be removed back to the nearest intersecting trail with a land use agreement. So a club won't have the option to have a trail lead to a property without a land use agreement. 

 

It'll definitely be a mess to start to the season, and we don't know what the logistics will look like because you can't cross a property with a groomer if no land use agreement,  even if there's property on the other side of it. Floating equipment that won't be viable, so clubs with more than 1 groomer might not be able to utilize them. Which results is less paid grooming hours which effects the budget.

 

Our volunteers are working hard at

getting these land use agreements and I know other clubs are as well. It just takes time. 

 On the bold - I have little to no doubt they are.

The work carried out by the few dedicated passionate people is never in question from my perspective

[grover_yyz]

On 9/17/2024 at 6:02 AM, 95rxl650 said:

 

I believe we will see alot more road running in the future for central and southern Ontario

road running is becoming more difficult as well. We are still negotiating with Kawartha lakes and Durham Region for signed access to the ditches on the sides of roads. Finally received our agreement for a small section that the MTO controls near Beaverton.

Our government who is all in favour and support snowmobiling could step up and help with land access on their roadways and help with Hydro One access.

[Steve F6]

I was working and missed HGR meeting saturday but i was told the town of Huntsville wont sign. 

[T bird]

5 hours ago, Steve F6 said:

I was working and missed HGR meeting saturday but i was told the town of Huntsville wont sign. 

In my 25 years of sledding… I learned quickly in my first trip “North” that Huntsville is completely anti sledding! We were not well perceived in any way and since then have had zero desire to spend my money there  

[Spiderman]

8 hours ago, T bird said:

In my 25 years of sledding… I learned quickly in my first trip “North” that Huntsville is completely anti sledding! We were not well perceived in any way and since then have had zero desire to spend my money there  

Sadly has always felt that way, and thought to be that way - which is insane when you consider the former President of the OFSC lived/worked there!

 

[04nightfire]

If it isn't something to do with hiking, biking, snowshoeing or granola eating, Huntsville doesn't like it.

[volunteer2]

How are things going with getting trail  permissions signed off ?  Any difficulties getting shared use trails signed   from municipalities  ?  

[stoney]

Just came across this article regarding dist #7 from a couple days ago. 

 

https://southmuskoka.doppleronline.ca/district-councillors-concerned-over-snowmobile-trail-access/#close_banner
 

[Spiderman]

25 minutes ago, stoney said:

Just came across this article regarding dist #7 from a couple days ago. 

 

https://southmuskoka.doppleronline.ca/district-councillors-concerned-over-snowmobile-trail-access/#close_banner
 

Spells out what we thought.

Snowmobiling needs more Mr. Harding's - and needs them on the inside of these municipalities to survive

[stoney]

From those that I know that have gone into politics in some shape or form, or that have tried too, is they have an agenda or invested interest that if they are placed in that position they are in a better position to control that want.....good, bad or what some are against, their or family/friends other business adventure, etc.....

Considering the losses expected, you would have to assume the local businesses that will be potentially affected by this, should be voicing their thoughts to their local counselors and the importance that the town addresses this matter with a huge sense of urgency. 

[Spiderman]

31 minutes ago, stoney said:

From those that I know that have gone into politics in some shape or form, or that have tried too, is they have an agenda or invested interest that if they are placed in that position they are in a better position to control that want.....good, bad or what some are against, their or family/friends other business adventure, etc.....

Considering the losses expected, you would have to assume the local businesses that will be potentially affected by this, should be voicing their thoughts to their local counselors and the importance that the town addresses this matter with a huge sense of urgency. 

 

 

I'm jaded and don't believe anyone cares anymore.

Does the local councilor really care if "tina's coffee shop" survives or doesn't? for every Tina's - a John's opens up anyway - the cycle continues

My own jaded view of course.

 

I've rattled the cage of my local counsellor on a few items and it's the same old story every time, it isn't worth my time anymore

 

[stoney]

29 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

 

 

I'm jaded and don't believe anyone cares anymore.

Does the local councilor really care if "tina's coffee shop" survives or doesn't? for every Tina's - a John's opens up anyway - the cycle continues

My own jaded view of course.

 

I've rattled the cage of my local counsellor on a few items and it's the same old story every time, it isn't worth my time anymore

 

 

Do the local counselors really care, likely hit or miss based on personalities, but it is their job to care about the local business/community and if they continue to show no care or not align with the public needs, they will no longer be in a position to try and influence their agenda, business, etc.....in that position.

You as an individual voicing concerns will not mean much, I agree, now a group with the same concerns is a different ball of wax.

 

I agree though, one can be very jaded given what you see go on around us, more specifically what has continued to go on.

 

[Nunz]

On 11/14/2024 at 12:41 PM, volunteer2 said:

How are things going with getting trail  permissions signed off ?  Any difficulties getting shared use trails signed   from municipalities  ?  

It’s been a real struggle for some 

[grover_yyz]

maybe we need to go back to the old ways and just let everyone ride where ever they want. Police can't catch us all. The mass chaos should wake up municipalities that riders will still ride whether there is a managed trail or not. A managed trail system will keep most (almost all) on the proper trails.

I can't blame municipalities for all our issues, it more likely the lawyers and insurance companies.

 

As for LUP getting signed, the municipalities are the most difficult. For example, one town will sign if they are added to the insurance policy. OFSC won't add them to the policy until they sign the LUP.

I had another township sign with no issues at all. Don't get me started on the larger "numbered" companies ...

 

Its not as simple as presenting a piece of paper and say just sign it. They want to know every road crossing, every ditch and road we ride on and how long it is. They want it presented in a nice document with a map. This all takes time. Once you have it it all needs to be entered into the database.

 

It appears I may be ranting and I apologize, I just hope its worth it and we get enough snow.

 

Jerry

[Spiderman]

2 hours ago, grover_yyz said:

maybe we need to go back to the old ways and just let everyone ride where ever they want. Police can't catch us all. The mass chaos should wake up municipalities that riders will still ride whether there is a managed trail or not. A managed trail system will keep most (almost all) on the proper trails.

I can't blame municipalities for all our issues, it more likely the lawyers and insurance companies.

 

As for LUP getting signed, the municipalities are the most difficult. For example, one town will sign if they are added to the insurance policy. OFSC won't add them to the policy until they sign the LUP.

I had another township sign with no issues at all. Don't get me started on the larger "numbered" companies ...

 

Its not as simple as presenting a piece of paper and say just sign it. They want to know every road crossing, every ditch and road we ride on and how long it is. They want it presented in a nice document with a map. This all takes time. Once you have it it all needs to be entered into the database.

 

It appears I may be ranting and I apologize, I just hope its worth it and we get enough snow.

 

Jerry

No, it sure isn't. And believing this could be done on a provincial basis in a span of 6 or so months is not easy.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

2 hours ago, Spiderman said:

They want to know every road crossing, every ditch and road we ride on and how long it is.

The OFSC already has that information. They have been tracking groomers for some time now. Those groomer tracs are what they used on the online map that shows all the land parcels and owners for this project. The only tracs they might not have are this year's new trails or reroutes.

We have a municipality  in our area that won't sign the MOU so obviously aren't concerned about free liability coverage for $15 million that it includes.

I know its a lot of work that volunteers don't need hanging over them  BUT the clubs were made aware that the insurer wanted this to happen 4 years ago.

[Spiderman]

1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

The OFSC already has that information. They have been tracking groomers for some time now. Those groomer tracs are what they used on the online map that shows all the land parcels and owners for this project. The only tracs they might not have are this year's new trails or reroutes.

We have a municipality  in our area that won't sign the MOU so obviously aren't concerned about free liability coverage for $15 million that it includes.

I know its a lot of work that volunteers don't need hanging over them  BUT the clubs were made aware that the insurer wanted this to happen 4 years ago.

 

So weird it quoted me for that - it wasn't me - it was Grover that said that.

 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

3 hours ago, Spiderman said:

 

So weird it quoted me for that - it wasn't me - it was Grover that said that.

 

Not sure how it did that.