Sled prices falling large ?

[Spiderman]

25 minutes ago, crispy said:

What i find odd and surprising is the manufacturers stubborn approach and lack of market innovations. I mentioned the boat market being down as well which it is but look at what these guys are making? I mean a 600hp outboard sure sounds awesome but what size boat does it need to hang on and at what price? How about the fuel consumption I thought the shift to four stroke was some green crap? Boat, motor, trailer for anything thrilling in todays market is well north of a couple hundred grand.

 

  A thundercat turbo starting price at 28k? And you wonder why cat is struggling in a down economy?

  What Im saying about market innovations is sort of what ski-doo offered with the MXZ sport. A simple, paired down, low tech ditch banger or powder version that was say in the sub $10k range would generate a lot of excitement. Some sled/s that really perform not some turd or lookalike wannabe with 60hp 🙄 a real machine. Set that up with some pre canned financing system that was within reach for most. Another huge factor with sleds that annoys the crap out of me is insurance. Its a total scam for what it is imo. Way too high a rate based on a few issues that over generate media attention it seems is what this is cause by. Its high time for a hagerty type insurance system for sleds that was affordable and super cheap for those of us who dont drink or have tickets etc. That too would motivate people to buy machines. Then there is the trail pass which I see both sides of I get it. I spent many hours cutting trails back when i could for the fun of it. Nowadays with all the cost of living issues? Its awful hard to say to the OFSC that it should be 100% volunteer again. Its simply too hard to give up that much time without compensation. But, the insurance the OFSC must be forking out can certainly be improved. Something to get permit prices reasonable enough to bring more into it instead of slowly forcing us old timers out.

 

  Just a few thoughts, theres probably many more ways to get the economic factors lined up better for buyers

 

First bold - EPA regulations have ruined that ability

 

Second bold - not sure what you're paying - but insurance for how it is set-up in Ontario is still relatively cheap. The only way to reduce it would be to move away from the OAP set-up - but then all you are left with is liability and insurance on the unit itself - no first party injury benefits. Everyone here would say "i'm fine with that" - until you're not fine with it. The minute you get injured and realize you need treatment ( which OHIP rarely provides now ), you'll be bitching and moaning about not having that coverage. I see it EVERY single day.

 

Insurance is the necessary evil - you'll pay it and pay it and pay it, and hopefully never need it, but that one time you do - you'll be thankful for it.

 

[stoney]

Has it not been said for years that Canadians are the most insured people?

 

Comment about the "green" movement making the old school affordable stuff obsolete is so sad and so true. 

Could buy old school stuff, but that is not really helping the manufactures survive.

 

This "green" crap sure does cost a lot in so many ways - look at the devastation experienced in AB.....

[VicFish]

On 11/17/2024 at 6:15 PM, stoney said:

Define “cheap”….lol

 

not in the market so haven’t even wondered, but it was said many a time the dealers and sellers that were benefiting a few years ago would see this in the tbd future. 
Not sure if it’s worse than expected though.

in the back of my mind I’m thinking it would be a great time to upgrade though, but I won’t. 

I'll take inexpensive over cheap. Cheap always ends up costing too much. lol.

 

 

[Spiderman]

Cat cut their racing dept now too.

Not good

[95rxl650]

41 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

Cat cut their racing dept now too.

Not good

Makes me wonder if theyre being smart or on their way out of the industry. I hope they survive. I liked the last two cats I owned.

With LOA's becoming such an issue, Ontario sales might tank. It also does little to instil confidence for anyone on the fence for a new sled purchase.

[Spiderman]

2 minutes ago, 95rxl650 said:

Makes me wonder if theyre being smart or on their way out of the industry. I hope they survive. I liked the last two cats I owned.

With LOA's becoming such an issue, Ontario sales might tank. It also does little to instil confidence for anyone on the fence for a new sled purchase.

 

I am going to say its a strategic move ahead of exiting the industry - i.e. if it and other measures do not stop the bleeding - then the towel will get tossed.

 

The industry is not strong - it's passion based at this point

[scottyr]

In conversation with my dealer last night, he is saying that the snow on the ground hasnt done much to pick up sales.    

 

We both agree that this mess will not be sorted out until MY27 at the earliest.   

[snowowl]

1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

Cat cut their racing dept now too.

Not good

Not trying to be difficult but in fact Cat did not cut their racing department.  What they cut was contingency and support money to racers.  The race department provides sleds and parts and it is still operating - on a shoestring budget no doubt.   Cat's top XC racer posted on FB last night stating the above.  He is still going to race Cat.

 

I believe on Wed. Cat made a bunch more layoffs including sales reps.  

 

Nobody knows how long Textron will keep Cat alive but for today they are.  Tomorrow may be a different story.

 

There is going to be a lot more blood spilled before the industry comes out of this.

[Spiderman]

8 minutes ago, snowowl said:

Not trying to be difficult but in fact Cat did not cut their racing department.  What they cut was contingency and support money to racers.  The race department provides sleds and parts and it is still operating - on a shoestring budget no doubt.   Cat's top XC racer posted on FB last night stating the above.  He is still going to race Cat.

 

I believe on Wed. Cat made a bunch more layoffs including sales reps.  

 

Nobody knows how long Textron will keep Cat alive but for today they are.  Tomorrow may be a different story.

 

There is going to be a lot more blood spilled before the industry comes out of this.

 

Thank you for the clarification.

I think after I posted - I did see that post from the XC Racer.

Either way, it's not a good sign of where things are at for the company.

 

And I agree, lots more blood to be spilled.

[stoney]

1 hour ago, scottyr said:

In conversation with my dealer last night, he is saying that the snow on the ground hasnt done much to pick up sales.    

 

We both agree that this mess will not be sorted out until MY27 at the earliest.   

 

Still very early into the mess and possible recovery.......and Cat is not the only one cutting, just under a bigger microscope and maybe more drastic based on their market share.

 

1 hour ago, snowowl said:

Not trying to be difficult but in fact Cat did not cut their racing department.  What they cut was contingency and support money to racers.  The race department provides sleds and parts and it is still operating - on a shoestring budget no doubt.   Cat's top XC racer posted on FB last night stating the above.  He is still going to race Cat.

 

I believe on Wed. Cat made a bunch more layoffs including sales reps.  

 

Nobody knows how long Textron will keep Cat alive but for today they are.  Tomorrow may be a different story.

 

There is going to be a lot more blood spilled before the industry comes out of this.

 

I always assumed anyone could race what they wanted, just depends on what support you get & from who, just like any other racing programs.

The bigger impact is the testing the manufacture does on the track that makes it way to the market for the day to day users.

But all that could return if things turn around.......IF being the big word.

 

Cat under the Textron umbrella is likely the worst thing for them from a large corporate policy standpoint, might have been better for them to be where there were before the purchase......the bigger the corp, the bigger the year to year return in shares are expected by the share holders, cannot do that with a division dealing with a massive lump in the market.....

 

Anyways, wishing the best for all manufactures and people relying on them! 

[scottyr]

Cat did pull out of snow cross.    They didnt even build their 2025 SnoX race sleds.   

 

The XC guys run production units and already have their machines.    

[scottyr]

There was an internal memo sent throughout Yamaha on Wed acknowledging Cats issues.    It basically said that Textron will be putting Cat up for sale and they are hoping to work with the new owner in supporting Cat based Yamaha sleds.   

[stonehaven]

1 hour ago, scottyr said:

There was an internal memo sent throughout Yamaha on Wed acknowledging Cats issues.    It basically said that Textron will be putting Cat up for sale and they are hoping to work with the new owner in supporting Cat based Yamaha sleds.   

Well that's interesting 🤔 

[95rxl650]

hmmmm, China buys Cat and ships them back to us at 2\3 the cost. USA wont see any due to tariffs. lol

[crispy]

On 11/18/2024 at 8:32 AM, Spiderman said:

 

First bold - EPA regulations have ruined that ability

 

Second bold - not sure what you're paying - but insurance for how it is set-up in Ontario is still relatively cheap. The only way to reduce it would be to move away from the OAP set-up - but then all you are left with is liability and insurance on the unit itself - no first party injury benefits. Everyone here would say "i'm fine with that" - until you're not fine with it. The minute you get injured and realize you need treatment ( which OHIP rarely provides now ), you'll be bitching and moaning about not having that coverage. I see it EVERY single day.

 

Insurance is the necessary evil - you'll pay it and pay it and pay it, and hopefully never need it, but that one time you do - you'll be thankful for it.

 

 

 frig the EPA. Sleds do not register on the global pollution scale. A tiny incalculable blip. They killed OMC too back in the day. frig those guys literally they can eat a giant bag of dicks. Hope Trump fires em all

[Baylaker]

I’ve seen a few decent deals out there, but they still need to come down in price a lot more yet imo. Dealer showrooms are still loaded with sleds and likely will be for the foreseeable future.
 

Used market is still in the covid era, and 

dealers are just starting to reduce the prices and offer some incentive to the point it’s on par with the used market pricing wise. So it makes sense for whoever is actually spending money right now just to buy a new sled and get the warranty plus incentives. 
 

Dealers will have no choice but to lower prices if they want to move their products, and by doing so will undercut the used market. It will force the used market to lower prices as well. 

Just what I think might happen..

[Spiderman]

[Oggy]

[tricky]

That was a great sled at a great price at Edge. Craig sold 3 of the 4 identical sleds by the weekend (Nov30). Not sure if he entertained selling for the same price last week. Apparently that was not a Polaris program. Didn't see anything similar with Ski Doo prices at Energy Powersports this past week. There are some good (not great) deals on the private used market, but its hard to pull the trigger when you believe that the prices must fall further before stabilizing. Saw some very interesting reduced prices on some motorcycles today at GP Bikes. Strange times that we are entering!

[Strong Farmer]

On 12/6/2024 at 9:23 AM, scottyr said:

In conversation with my dealer last night, he is saying that the snow on the ground hasnt done much to pick up sales.    

 

We both agree that this mess will not be sorted out until MY27 at the earliest.   

Dropped my sled off at delta power in st Mary's today. The service guy told me earlier in week to just bring it in first come first serve and it should be ready in a few days. So I drop it off today and they asked if I had an appointment and I explained that they wouldn't take any, first come first serve I was told. Then guy tells me he has 40 sleds dropped off at end of the week. About 8 came in while I was there today too. So few days turns into a week or more. 🤣 By weather it isn't a rush anyways rain Monday 🤣. 

[Strong Farmer]

7 hours ago, Spiderman said:

Not bad but first year deprication is close to 4000 now maybe more before tax. 

[Strong Farmer]

Just now, Strong Farmer said:

Not bad but first year deprication is close to 4000 now maybe more before tax. I seen some  new polaris's 2024 knocked down by almost 5k, still sitting. 

 

[95rxl650]

I was soooo close to pulling the trigger on that exact sled this fall. Glad I didnt after todays events. lol

[Puggz]

I think the used/new non-current market will stabilize until the spring and spring pricing will depend on what kind of season we end up with.  The early snow has kept interest in the sport, and therefore, interest in purchasing a new (to you) sled.  The market that really needs a reset is the new market. $25k, or more, out the door for a nice 850 is bonkers.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

A week ago Friday I saw on Marketplace a 2023 Doo Turbo with 2900 km. on it advertised for $13,000.00 in Newmarket. I was tempted but not enough. It was showing sold when I checked early this week. Pretty decent deal and was surprised it stayed as long as it did.