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AGM ideas


signfan

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2 hours ago, J Feces said:

Some interesting thoughts…As I’ve said before..I’ll say it again. Make the snowmobile license the trail permit. Every licensed machine in the province has a valid trail pass. Can’t get insurance without lic/permit. More funds to go into trail maintenance and grooming. 
  Ya ya I know…people north of French river don’t buy licenses…too bad. Change it. Yes I also know not every licensed snowmobile rides on groomed trails..too bad…Same argument made for auto license.  If I don’t travel 400 series highway can I get a discount tag?. No it doesn’t work that way. 
  Enforcement? It’s been non existent last few yrs…this model would make what little enforcement their is easier. 
  Trails in the Deep South ..get rid of them. Unless our weather patterns change I see no value in mapping, staking, insuring some of these trails. Waste of time and money. I will admit I own several farms some w trails on them. Where I live just go back to what it was in the 70s..if it snows go to the bush and have a fire. Go see the neighbours…

  When I see newer groomers sitting in the south and more northern regions forced to use much older higher houred units to maintain trails that have ample snow still and will for a few weeks yet I question the logic. All those permit buyers in the south are going north to ride. The few that will be lost because they don’t have a local trail are already gone. 
  You asked for thoughts..I’ve shared mine. Not looking for an argument. 

 

You own several farms? have a deer or coyote problem? Looking for a place to hunt my elusive 140"+ buck, I have not shot yet. that is my bucket list item. :D Ski 

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12 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

 

You own several farms? have a deer or coyote problem? Looking for a place to hunt my elusive 140"+ buck, I have not shot yet. that is my bucket list item. :D Ski 

Yup..but my best buck was a 154 inch 10 point w a broken drop tine that was shot off crown land at our hunt camp in the north. Sometimes see 8-10 deer a day when in field…Coyotes? Lots of em…nuisance is all they are. 

DCF5DB56-8A8F-4B96-9CD2-A7391BB9BFCA.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Panther340 said:

Considering sadly that snowmachines might be around only one or two more generations after us.....trail change talk might be moot !! ......heck we are already seeing younger generations no longer interested in the " car culture" ......forced on us electric self driving cars 20 yrs from now !! .........boy they will need to pry my gas engine cars, boats, snowmachine and Atv  , etc from my dead hands ! ! 

New electrics are pretty nice. The features that are on them are outstanding. I understand where you live it isn’t best option either. For us folks in south it makes 100 percent sense. New nissian gets 490 km to a charge that costs less then 10 bucks to do overnight . 
I buy one tomorrow if wife car dies. She doesn’t want another gas vehicle. 

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3 hours ago, Panther340 said:

Here is a link to build Ont map of crown land, ( you have to accept terms and then wait for it to load, the colours aren't as vibrant as they should be to help see..) but even north of Sault and east of 17 between the Indian Reserves and Private Land and Parks , see how the leftover crownland is many times deep in bush . ( barely any crownland in Southern Ont) Now add in complex logging rights on crown land, constantly changing hands every few years .......you have a moving target for OFSC to try to make the trails permanent on lands they cannot ever afford to buy , and the existing insurance liabilities to "lease" like now on private. And also not set precedences for permanent use of crown land that other groups would want. ......just being devils advocate of tricky balance act OFSC must do now.       https://www.ontario.ca/page/crown-land-use-policy-atlas

 

Michigan bought permanent leases on public, private, indian reserves to make their system complete. it can be done, there is just the cost. with the ofsc, mto, mnr and the gubment involved, there should be a way to claim eminent domain, to put trails in place to favor economic impact. but, again... just throwing ideas out there. Ski

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Just now, J Feces said:

Yup..but my best buck was a 154 inch 10 point w a broken drop tine that was shot off crown land at our hunt camp in the north. Sometimes see 8-10 deer a day when in field…Coyotes? Lots of em…nuisance is all they are. 

DCF5DB56-8A8F-4B96-9CD2-A7391BB9BFCA.jpeg

 

I have an electronic predator caller, and guns. LOL! wanna lease some land to a dreamer? LOL! I really want a big buck but, cant do it here, at our place. thinking about going through an outfitter for big Saskatchewan white tails.  Ski

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8 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

 

I have an electronic predator caller, and guns. LOL! wanna lease some land to a dreamer? LOL! I really want a big buck but, cant do it here, at our place. thinking about going through an outfitter for big Saskatchewan white tails.  Ski

Truthfully if you want to shoot a big buck w limited time..go through a reputable outfitter. Sask Man or even NW Ont has lots of options. When you go on what is essentially public land being crown or even private farm land it’s about time spent and patterns of travel and patience. As you likely know you can spend several seasons waiting for that one trophy to come by. 
 That’s a nice little 142 in 8 point just to tease you a little 😀

26FA2798-89D7-4EEE-9A55-03F57B3406CF.jpeg

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14 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

 

Michigan bought permanent leases on public, private, indian reserves to make their system complete. it can be done, there is just the cost. with the ofsc, mto, mnr and the gubment involved, there should be a way to claim eminent domain, to put trails in place to favor economic impact. but, again... just throwing ideas out there. Ski

Our government doesn’t appreciate power sports that much here in Ontario. That’s most of problem to get something like that approved and in place. They can’t even find funding to build some of highways they promised over a decade or two ago. 🤣

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9 hours ago, Strong Farmer said:

Our government doesn’t appreciate power sports that much here in Ontario. That’s most of problem to get something like that approved and in place. They can’t even find funding to build some of highways they promised over a decade or two ago. 🤣

No they dont. And unless we ramp up with lobbyists that cost a lot of money nothing will ever happen

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6 minutes ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

No they dont. And unless we ramp up with lobbyists that cost a lot of money nothing will ever happen

I bet they ban snowmobiles, atv’s etc from towns in future too. Taking about a gas chain saw, weed whacker and blower bans. Noise, emissions will drive that to happen. 

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Regional permits would never work in my opinion. Just look at the top 3 districts who sell the most permits for the year.  This would have a negative effect on the Provincial trail system.

 

Some good ideas here, and thats how change can happen..

 

 

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How about the ITG.....who thought a yellow marked trail on a pale yellow background was a great idea?

 

Change the background to black....cant be that hard to do

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26 minutes ago, Yukon said:

Regional permits would never work in my opinion. Just look at the top 3 districts who sell the most permits for the year.  This would have a negative effect on the Provincial trail system.

 

Some good ideas here, and thats how change can happen..

 

 

Which districts are they?  Do we think those riders only ride in those southern districts and don't travel?  I live in district 3 and almost never ride here.  Sledding involves a truck and trailer 95% of the time. I'd buy the provincial permit still like many on here would.  This is part of the argument keeping permit prices low though I believe.  The need to cater to the folks that get a short season.  But seems the entire system is short changing itself over a few southern areas.  Would be interesting to see the information OFSC has on this.  Am I missing part of the equation?

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11 minutes ago, signfan said:

Which districts are they?  Do we think those riders only ride in those southern districts and don't travel?  I live in district 3 and almost never ride here.  Sledding involves a truck and trailer 95% of the time. I'd buy the provincial permit still like many on here would.  This is part of the argument keeping permit prices low though I believe.  The need to cater to the folks that get a short season.  But seems the entire system is short changing itself over a few southern areas.  Would be interesting to see the information OFSC has on this.  Am I missing part of the equation?

Districts 1,5,8 followed closely by 6,7,9.

If you want to know the numbers sold, your local club can get you that information..

 

Back when there was talk of regional permits, it was well thought out. In the end it was decided it wouldn't work. Just for shits and giggles,.myself and a few friends that are Provincial thinkers, tried to come up with regions that would still benefit all. In the end we kept coming back to the Provincial funding model and realised, ourselves that it wouldnt work. Some of our best thoughts while brainstorming came from a shop, with a woodstove and a bbq and a computer.

 

I encourage people like yourself, to keep thinking outside the box.

 

If you aren't with a club now, please consider joining a club meeting and get engaged..

 

 

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46 minutes ago, signfan said:

Which districts are they?  Do we think those riders only ride in those southern districts and don't travel?  I live in district 3 and almost never ride here.  Sledding involves a truck and trailer 95% of the time. I'd buy the provincial permit still like many on here would.  This is part of the argument keeping permit prices low though I believe.  The need to cater to the folks that get a short season.  But seems the entire system is short changing itself over a few southern areas.  Would be interesting to see the information OFSC has on this.  Am I missing part of the equation?

 

1 hour ago, Yukon said:

Regional permits would never work in my opinion. Just look at the top 3 districts who sell the most permits for the year.  This would have a negative effect on the Provincial trail system.

 

Some good ideas here, and thats how change can happen..

 

 

 

If an assumption is made that because permit x is bought in district y (southern'ish region), and now you are going to a regional system that may cause negative affects in district y, I would also be surprised to hear that a large majority of the people in district y are not already traveling/trailering to where the snow / open trails are year after year, now more so than ever before.....or they have left the sport or on the verge of it, as already mentioned. Those still in the game will buy the provincial permit to access areas they can usually count on and consider their back yard a bonus to ride when and if they can.

 

1 - Ottawa/Kingston area: Still gets higher percentage of snow fall in the northern portion of the region, not sure what Kingston/Cornwall has experienced as of late

5 - Kitchener/London area: Has been a loss for winter or if it shows, it quickly goes and I am sure many riders are already trailering elsewhere

8 - Barrie area: Winters have been poor as of late, but still can get good snow from GB lake effect that tends to stick around longer, also I am sure many riders are already trailering elsewhere

 

6 , 7 & 9 - All areas that still see winter, albeit shorter and spottier than ever before and I am sure many riders are already trailering elsewhere as well and many from south of here are trailering to these areas to ride

 

 

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Retired from the OFSC until the kids get older.  Spent too much time at it in my 20's.   I'm sure I'll get back involved down the road once the kids are old enough to participate.  Hopefully someone will take some of my ideas forward for further review.  

 

Interesting to see that the idea of regional permits has been flushed through.  Still question the thought of keeping the prices where they are which has been the case for some time now.  Something has to give eventually.  It shouldn't be trail quality I'm my opinion.

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1 hour ago, signfan said:

Retired from the OFSC until the kids get older.  Spent too much time at it in my 20's.   I'm sure I'll get back involved down the road once the kids are old enough to participate.  Hopefully someone will take some of my ideas forward for further review.  

 

Interesting to see that the idea of regional permits has been flushed through.  Still question the thought of keeping the prices where they are which has been the case for some time now.  Something has to give eventually.  It shouldn't be trail quality I'm my opinion.

It all comes back to seems to be a price point where sales sharply decline. If prices are raised above the threshold then sales suffer. It’s time to raise prices and come out with a family permit like Haliburton forest. Give a discount for second and third machine per family, would help. Maybe make family discount would apply to early season sales too. Worth exploring something like that I think. 

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Yeah that ideas been tossed around before.  It has some merit.  I think the issue is how do you police it.  I believe New Brunswick does that, but they are selling their permits through a government portal where the household address is tracked and can be enforced.

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19 hours ago, signfan said:

Yeah that ideas been tossed around before.  It has some merit.  I think the issue is how do you police it.  I believe New Brunswick does that, but they are selling their permits through a government portal where the household address is tracked and can be enforced.

No reason Ontario can’t do it too. Ski packages have family rates and no reason we can’t do it to grow sport abit. Lots of second and third snowmobiles no permits on them for various reasons. A family rate would convince more to permit them I think. Would be a win, win for everyone and these sleds aren’t doing big mileages either. It’s a way to bring in more people to help with trail system too. This is only thing that hasn’t been tried and love to see it happen on trail based for next few years. 

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like fishing, hunting, drivers licenses... license the rider, permit the rider. done deal. Ski

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After paying the $400 for a full season Quebec permit and seeing what that gets you, I am struggling to see any reason to buy an OFSC permit next season.    The $400 is actually a pretty good value when you see how well the trails are signed and groomed.

 

I think that the OFSC needs to have a serious discussion on shutting down some southern clubs.   Clubs like Tillsonburg, Strathroy, Forest etc.... should not exist if they have averaged 3-4 days of open trail per season in the last 10 years.   I live in Mitchell and rode 2 days locally in 2011 and maybe 2 days in 2018 if I go through my photo albums.      

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When a permit to ride trails on a provincial level cost less than my son's hockey stick - anyone complaining about the cost seriously needs to take a step back and understand the value they are getting for that permit and realize what an idiot they are being questioning it.

 

It's insane really.

 

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16 hours ago, Spiderman said:

When a permit to ride trails on a provincial level cost less than my son's hockey stick - anyone complaining about the cost seriously needs to take a step back and understand the value they are getting for that permit and realize what an idiot they are being questioning it.

 

It's insane really.

 

The OFSC can keep its head in the sand if it wants but if it doesn't evolve into a proper organization with the funds, the political backing and the elevation of structural changes we will all be going to quebec and riding lakes only.  

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On 3/16/2023 at 3:01 PM, Spiderman said:

When a permit to ride trails on a provincial level cost less than my son's hockey stick - anyone complaining about the cost seriously needs to take a step back and understand the value they are getting for that permit and realize what an idiot they are being questioning it.

 

It's insane really.

 

Exactly. We rode 5 days this year. I would happily pay 300 for that. Skiing is well over 100 per day per person. Fuel in truck to get to our destination was same cost as 2 permits, 1 trip, air bnb was 5 permits, food and beverages, 5 permits.

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