yamadan700 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Nunz. Suggestion. Maybe your ambassadors can take pics of the violators' sleds(if they stop..lol) with their registration number. That may help with the deterring future infractions. Can also start a "Tool of The Day" pinned thread on snowmobile social media sites with the pics of the sleds. However that may backfire as they may look at that as a badge of honour or a "trophy" as Nutter says. Wish you well with it. Look forward to the updates! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Nutter said: It's been pushed extremely hard since the inception of Bill 101 back in the late 90's early 00's making the permit an instrument of the province (MTO), making trail and MSVA related offences provincial offences. We have to be realistic in our expectations of enforcement for a basically 30,000+km private pay per use trail system used by approx 80 to100,000 permit buyers. Ontario currently has a population of 15 million people, it's pretty likely that 14,000,800 give or take don't even know snowmobile trails exist, let alone have an enforcement issue, or give a rats ass about it. Sad but that's what we truly are dealing with, police have much much bigger enforcement issue to deal with in the grand scheme of things. As said before, sledding is in desperate need of a culture change, we need the 95% of the 80 to 100,000 permit buyers to help set that culture change. Which is tough when your dealing outright disrespectful self entitled people that only care about themselves. Like I said the other day, everyone got a trophy and here we are ......... This is good to hear that it is in fact being pushed at the OFSC level. Agree about the percentages as well & many people would rather see the resources fighting far worse things vs. us lowly sledders - but this is the agreement that was made, so I wonder what that two way discussion looks like & the rational for not using harsher fines. Even if the enforcement/presence is not increased, what is the rational of not making the fines for those caught breaking the rules A LOT more harsh - that can be used a much better tool to deter people from doing it. Did the MTO not just adopt the rules & fines set by the OFSC beforehand, if so, I would think changing/updating them now could be possible with the pressure coming from the OFSC based on submitting reasons that justify the change? Like anything else, change needs to start from within no doubt.....more that buy in, will make an impact. But the fine or penalty needs to match the infraction - right now it does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, stoney said: This is good to hear that it is in fact being pushed at the OFSC level. Agree about the percentages as well & many people would rather see the resources fighting far worse things vs. us lowly sledders - but this is the agreement that was made, so I wonder what that two way discussion looks like & the rational for not using harsher fines. Even if the enforcement/presence is not increased, what is the rational of not making the fines for those caught breaking the rules A LOT more harsh - that can be used a much better tool to deter people from doing it. Did the MTO not just adopt the rules & fines set by the OFSC beforehand, if so, I would think changing/updating them now could be possible with the pressure coming from the OFSC based on submitting reasons that justify the change? Like anything else, change needs to start from within no doubt.....more that buy in, will make an impact. But the fine or penalty needs to match the infraction - right now it does not. No doubt we need a separate offence written into law. That being trespass on ofsc trail. 500 minimum fine would be good. Then we need stop back to be out there handing out tickets. There is no excuse not to buy a pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, yamadan700 said: Can also start a "Tool of The Day" pinned thread on snowmobile social media sites with the pics of the sleds. Good idea but it will be hard to beat Custom John as the "tool of the day" 🤪 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, LuvMyViper said: Good idea but it will be hard to beat Custom John as the "tool of the day" 🤪 Jesus, that made me laugh so hard I freaked the dog out Rick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 56 minutes ago, zoso said: No doubt we need a separate offence written into law. That being trespass on ofsc trail. 500 minimum fine would be good. Then we need stop back to be out there handing out tickets. There is no excuse not to buy a pass. Watched the Save unit working the Hali area last season double bang non permitted sleds, fail to display evidence of permit and trespassing, I think it came to north of $400 bones with the victim surcharge. They were also zero tolerance with cans, val tag and insurance, so a few were really banged hard. Was told they have added MSVA offences to the easy access data base, get a second hit with a can or any of the other offences, its a summons to court for them to explain to a judge why they felt it was ok to reoffend. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, yamadan700 said: Nunz. Suggestion. Maybe your ambassadors can take pics of the violators' sleds(if they stop..lol) with their registration number. That may help with the deterring future infractions. Can also start a "Tool of The Day" pinned thread on snowmobile social media sites with the pics of the sleds. However that may backfire as they may look at that as a badge of honour or a "trophy" as Nutter says. Wish you well with it. Look forward to the updates! Take the picture and identify the rider. Have landowner provide affidavit he did not give written permission for said person to be on the property. Have ticket issued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderman Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Oh, and for Nutter and the other OFSC people on here -the on-line driver training course - although very long and let's face it, CAN NOT replace in-person, is done well. I have my complaints - but it has some very good material in it for youngsters. My son is finishing up and is learning quite a bit - my hope is he does not turn into an asshat. cheers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, Nutter said: Watched the Save unit working the Hali area last season double bang non permitted sleds, fail to display evidence of permit and trespassing, I think it came to north of $400 bones with the victim surcharge. They were also zero tolerance with cans, val tag and insurance, so a few were really banged hard. Was told they have added MSVA offences to the easy access data base, get a second hit with a can or any of the other offences, its a summons to court for them to explain to a judge why they felt it was ok to reoffend. Good. should have double amount that though 👍. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 37 minutes ago, Nutter said: Watched the Save unit working the Hali area last season double bang non permitted sleds, fail to display evidence of permit and trespassing, I think it came to north of $400 bones with the victim surcharge. They were also zero tolerance with cans, val tag and insurance, so a few were really banged hard. Was told they have added MSVA offences to the easy access data base, get a second hit with a can or any of the other offences, its a summons to court for them to explain to a judge why they felt it was ok to reoffend. Good news. Let's hope they keep it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, Spiderman said: Take the picture and identify the rider. Have landowner provide affidavit he did not give written permission for said person to be on the property. Have ticket issued Driver doesn't even have to be identified Quote Owner may be convicted 24 The owner of a motorized snow vehicle may be charged with and convicted of an offence under this Act or the regulations or any municipal by-law regulating, governing or prohibiting the operation of motorized snow vehicles, for which the driver of the motorized snow vehicle is subject to be charged unless, at the time of the offence, the motorized snow vehicle was in the possession of a person other than the owner without the owner’s consent and on conviction the owner is liable to the penalty prescribed for the offence. R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 24. Lots of good reading here, based on my own interactions the SAVE unit guys are well versed in the act, but not so much with most other snow patrol units. https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90m44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 38 minutes ago, Spiderman said: Oh, and for Nutter and the other OFSC people on here -the on-line driver training course - although very long and let's face it, CAN NOT replace in-person, is done well. I have my complaints - but it has some very good material in it for youngsters. My son is finishing up and is learning quite a bit - my hope is he does not turn into an asshat. cheers Most feel the same way including me, but I get it, it's not always convenient for people living in remote areas to get there kids to a class. Our clubs in class program didn't see a dent in our usual attendance #s after it was implemented, so it shows no need to scrap the in class program, both serve their purpose. The other problem was that the boat license people were pitching it successfully to the province, the OFSC either did it and take control or they would of had it. Though, thank god it was made available online, or covid would of kept 7000+ kids parked the last 2 seasons. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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