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The Lunacy Begins


Muskoka Bill

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1 hour ago, manotickmike said:

No enforcement, no consequences, and everyone knows it.

Not a recipe for longevity.

Sorry for the negativity, but as a somewhat new return to sledding, I just can't understand this. 

 

no budgets for opp, or town constables to enforce traffic laws, how are they supposed to enforce recreational travel rules?

 

you think it is bad in the more southern regions? you should see it in the "wild west" of the real true northern Ontario.

 

take Dubreuilville for example. no one, and I mean, no one, follows the speed limits in town for autos, bikes, atv's sleds. all of them ripping around town at all hours of the day/night, way over the limit, brappp cans, loud truck exhaust etc... there is no OPP presence and, the town knows it. with this lack of penalties, people do what they want.

 

trespassing? even if you had pics, and video of the offender, go to their home, the parents say... "that isnt my child". but, here is the proof... " I dont care, I am telling you, that is not my kid". they put up extra stop signs, and even speed bumps when entering/leaving town. with winter, they removed the bumps to ease plowing issues. they replaced the bumps with 2 stop signs... everyone rolls through them, like they did before... cop didnt see it, I didnt do it.  

 

sad really. but, you see with the town basically turning into a large mining camp now, there will be the need for 24 hour OPP, or town constable presence. many dont believe it will come but, you can see the writing on the wall. all it will take is a child, or a senior adult to be killed in the township limits (all under 50kph limits), and then it will become important. Ski

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10 hours ago, Spiderman said:

Can't fix stupid, but we're getting to the point where snow fencing and/or some form of a "block" need to be at  easy trail access locations until they are open.

It's a late start - people are "itching" etc. 

No win - only a lose for everyone

 

I agree but even if you block a trail with a log or snow fencing in south, easy to go around. Not like it is solid bush. Some sections have gates like farmers pastures, so those would be a dead end anyways. 

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1 hour ago, Crow said:

  The above pic shows me that they obviously have no respect for their own property (sleds) so why would they have any respect for someone else’s property or a closed trail for that matter.

  Our club lost a trail that’s been in existence since ‘78, and a long time landowner had enough and there is no route around him, we tried.

  I am curious how many ride right past my 12 Trail Closed signs.

I'm told by a very reliable source that the OFSC doesn't want clubs to use "Trail Closed" signs. They want the ITG to be THE source for trail availability information. It doesn't seem that's working well for them. I still use them on my trail section. I turn them immediately when status changes. My belief is that the Trail Closed signs pretty much do away with the validity of any excuse a closed trail rider may have.

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3 hours ago, skidooboy said:

 

no budgets for opp, or town constables to enforce traffic laws, how are they supposed to enforce recreational travel rules?

 

you think it is bad in the more southern regions? you should see it in the "wild west" of the real true northern Ontario.

 

take Dubreuilville for example. no one, and I mean, no one, follows the speed limits in town for autos, bikes, atv's sleds. all of them ripping around town at all hours of the day/night, way over the limit, brappp cans, loud truck exhaust etc... there is no OPP presence and, the town knows it. with this lack of penalties, people do what they want.

 

trespassing? even if you had pics, and video of the offender, go to their home, the parents say... "that isnt my child". but, here is the proof... " I dont care, I am telling you, that is not my kid". they put up extra stop signs, and even speed bumps when entering/leaving town. with winter, they removed the bumps to ease plowing issues. they replaced the bumps with 2 stop signs... everyone rolls through them, like they did before... cop didnt see it, I didnt do it.  

 

sad really. but, you see with the town basically turning into a large mining camp now, there will be the need for 24 hour OPP, or town constable presence. many dont believe it will come but, you can see the writing on the wall. all it will take is a child, or a senior adult to be killed in the township limits (all under 50kph limits), and then it will become important. Ski

So true, I live in another Northern Ont town serviced by OPP, my wife and I make it a conversation event if we see an OPP cruiser on our long  fairly busy township thru road, and when we do see them it is a Monday or Tuesday  morn , when all the DUI are never around. So expecting OPP on the trails is pie in the sky. 

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4 hours ago, Gadgetman said:

Agree.

Lost this season, or in the past? A D1 trail, and where if you don't mind saying?

thanks.

Gadgetman, yes in D1 lost for this season and probably beyond. It’s a club trail, but I’ll leave it there for now. 

3 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I'm told by a very reliable source that the OFSC doesn't want clubs to use "Trail Closed" signs. They want the ITG to be THE source for trail availability information. It doesn't seem that's working well for them. I still use them on my trail section. I turn them immediately when status changes. My belief is that the Trail Closed signs pretty much do away with the validity of any excuse a closed trail rider may have.

PLC, we don’t use them normally as too much driving around to change them, and Yes, refer to ITG is what we follow.

The TC signs I put up are for the sheep that just know where the trail has always been, even though there are no other trail signs installed this season. I also put them up to show our former landowners that we still care about their property, in hopes of returning someday.

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Not puting a "closed" sign up, and to us the app?

Seriously?

And then fussing b/c someone rode through when it's not posted?

 

We don't all check online guides when we ride.

Heck, some of us don't even have a computor in our pocket. (believe it)

 

If there wasn't a sign, then no-one has any business being upset at someone riding through.

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1 hour ago, Ox said:

Not puting a "closed" sign up, and to us the app?

Seriously?

And then fussing b/c someone rode through when it's not posted?

 

We don't all check online guides when we ride.

Heck, some of us don't even have a computor in our pocket. (believe it)

 

If there wasn't a sign, then no-one has any business being upset at someone riding through.

I think your right,    .....I had to post my 40 acres with 3 inch red dots on white background signs on border trees, to inform all that it is private , no hunting. If I didn't I would not have legal leg to stand on to uphold my land rights. ( or else it would be assumed crown land) Imagine me expecting people to go on the Ontario crown land website to determine it as private. Its too much to expect. 

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5 hours ago, Ox said:

Not puting a "closed" sign up, and to us the app?

Seriously?

And then fussing b/c someone rode through when it's not posted?

 

We don't all check online guides when we ride.

Heck, some of us don't even have a computor in our pocket. (believe it)

 

If there wasn't a sign, then no-one has any business being upset at someone riding through.

You don't have one in your pocket, but you have one at home before you leave obviously, as you are on this website 

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Unfortunately this sport has had such rapid growth and a lot of the newer riders have not grown up being taught about the trail system.

 

And it will only get worse as the self entitled brats of today’s society continue to screw up our society.

 

Its all about instant gratification they can get.  

 

 

 

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I like the idea of the "closed" sign - so at least it's there - in your face - and you can "think about it".

That said, some would blindly ignore it anyway.

 

Using the ITG as the tool - I get it from the one side perspective -that's our system - and that's how we run it - it's one thing - simple and easy - and real time.

 

On the other end - I'm fairly young - but not a gadget or tech person - I have never downloaded any app and it's a tool I simply will not use, so hopefully someone I would be riding with does, otherwise it's an unknown to me and not something I will bother to get familiar with. 

 

 

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Hopefully in future someone can develop a smart app based on cellphone gps.  

 

Riding an area not open open and get a text message.  

 

Do not get out of closed area a fine.

 

Found with phone turned off in a closed area you get a big fine.

 

 

I know lots of reasons this will not work but it would at least increase awareness.  But most of trespass/ closed trails area issues are in areas with cellphone coverage.

 

 

 

 

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As an example of the lack of commonsense in new riders . i have a relative that lives on North Mary Lake near Huntsville that bought his first ever snow machine ( a couple years old 1200cc MX ? Skidoo,) for him and his 14 yr old rookie son to use. He posts how he has been riding private trails in his area. I see from FB that a neighbor informed him the last year sticker on his machine is not valid. So he promised neighbor he would pursue. But unless there is truly a lot of private trails in his area , then he is freeloading probably on closed trails.  . And this is a well educated IT Manager that unfortunately has no common sense . I also suspect the 1200 cc is going to maim him or his son , but that is another story still to be written.

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1 hour ago, Spiderman said:

I have never downloaded any app and it's a tool I simply will not use, so hopefully someone I would be riding with does, otherwise it's an unknown to me and not something I will bother to get familiar with. 

 

 

 

If someone doesn't want to bother with the app, they can still access the basic ITG on the web.

 

Just go to 

 https://ofsc.evtrails.com/

 

It still requires internet access, of course. Sometimes I look at the ITG at home, and grab screen shots to take with me on the trails.

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12 hours ago, Zertrider said:

You don't have one in your pocket, but you have one at home before you leave obviously, as you are on this website 

 

I go for a week ride and what if I don't ever look at my phone?  I know where I have planned to go and actually don't need any mapping device to ride all around Northern Ontario.

 

The trails were closed on me once in the middle of loop, and I had no idea and NO CHOICE other than to ride back.  

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Well I like having it...especially when I get lost as it shows me where I am.

I won't ride with anyone that decides to go thru trail closed sign...no excuse for that

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26 minutes ago, capster59 said:

Well I like having it...especially when I get lost as it shows me where I am.

I won't ride with anyone that decides to go thru trail closed sign...no excuse for that

There was a time I don't think I could ever get lost within 200 mile radius of our place.

Now, I could quite easily :)

 

Ride safe

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If no trail patrol will be provided by those we pay to provide it...

Let's not tolerate the bullshit where they won't allow us to patrol things ourselves.

I cannot imagine asking/expecting people to invest vast quantities of volunteer time into something that has no protection.

That's a sand castle. If you enjoy building something to watch it get washed away have at it. Don't ask me to help.

I volunteer a LOT of time into our single track dirt bike trails. 

Nobody is going to stand in my way of defending them against idiots that contribute nothing except getting us closer to losing our privileges. 

The alternative is to sit home when yet another area gets shut down, and kicking yourself for doing nothing to prevent it. 

 

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2 hours ago, manotickmike said:

If no trail patrol will be provided by those we pay to provide it...

Let's not tolerate the bullshit where they won't allow us to patrol things ourselves.

I cannot imagine asking/expecting people to invest vast quantities of volunteer time into something that has no protection.

That's a sand castle. If you enjoy building something to watch it get washed away have at it. Don't ask me to help.

I volunteer a LOT of time into our single track dirt bike trails. 

Nobody is going to stand in my way of defending them against idiots that contribute nothing except getting us closer to losing our privileges. 

The alternative is to sit home when yet another area gets shut down, and kicking yourself for doing nothing to prevent it. 

 

This is one of the reasons I stepped back, it is total bs, and just watching freeloaders.

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16 hours ago, manotickmike said:

If no trail patrol will be provided by those we pay to provide it...

Let's not tolerate the bullshit where they won't allow us to patrol things ourselves.

I cannot imagine asking/expecting people to invest vast quantities of volunteer time into something that has no protection.

That's a sand castle. If you enjoy building something to watch it get washed away have at it. Don't ask me to help.

I volunteer a LOT of time into our single track dirt bike trails. 

Nobody is going to stand in my way of defending them against idiots that contribute nothing except getting us closer to losing our privileges. 

The alternative is to sit home when yet another area gets shut down, and kicking yourself for doing nothing to prevent it. 

 

its the same damn argument every year and whats being done about it? Nothing. 

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2 hours ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

its the same damn argument every year and whats being done about it? Nothing. 

 

And it never will. this is recreational travel. yes, it puts money into the economy but, the govt gets a free ride on all the taxes we pay, to give them the economy boost, without any exposure themselves. why would they want to expose themselves, to more budget costs, to a sport that most could care less if it dies or thrives?

 

at some point, this will all be taken away, and we will all be back, bushwhacking our own trails. Ski

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1 hour ago, skidooboy said:

 

And it never will. this is recreational travel. yes, it puts money into the economy but, the govt gets a free ride on all the taxes we pay, to give them the economy boost, without any exposure themselves. why would they want to expose themselves, to more budget costs, to a sport that most could care less if it dies or thrives?

 

at some point, this will all be taken away, and we will all be back, bushwhacking our own trails. Ski

agreed But I was really referring to the inadequacy of the OFSC and the hanging on by a thread policy they use to run this system.

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same song, different verse... again, they collect our trail permit money, rely on volunteers, except for the main administration office staff, and reap the monetary benefit without the overhead. it is not sustainable. Ski

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2 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

same song, different verse... again, they collect our trail permit money, rely on volunteers, except for the main administration office staff, and reap the monetary benefit without the overhead. it is not sustainable. Ski

I have said this for years, “it’s not sustainable” as it is currently …make the sled lic a trail permit and every sled in the province would have a permit. Need for enforcement would drop significantly. But this answer is too easy…let the bashing begin. 

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personally, I would like to see it go to a license the driver, not the sled. then if you have more than one sled, you can ride whichever one you like. permit the rider/driver, like hunting and fishing licenses. Ski

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