Jump to content

Pre Season Maintenance


Puggz

Recommended Posts

First time tearing apart a sled for me. I have 6,000km on my '17 ZR6000 RS edition so it was about time.  here's the list

 

  • Removed side panels and front.  Removed Muffler, lost/dropped 2 springs but they were recovered, sigh ;)
  • Removed chaincase cover, cleaned and inspected. No signs of wear and the chain tensioning pad was nice and smooth.  I was going to install a new gasket but the donkey's at Aberfoyle sold me the wrong one. The original looked good and after a wipe it went back in.  Lots of work to this but always better than being stranded with a breakdown. Poured in a bottle of new gear oil so its good to go.  My new 1/4 drive torque wrench got a workout :) 108 in/lbs for the chaincase bolts
  • Set the gap (.029") and replaced spark plugs
  • Removed the primary clutch, partially disassembled it and gave it a good cleaning. Not sure when the smell of brake cleaner is gonna ever leave my garage but it sure does the job.  Everything looked good, ran some scotchbrite over the sheeves for good measure and back on it went, torqued to 51 ft/lbs.  Didn't take apart the driven clutch, gave the sheeves the scotchbrite treatment.  I'll take this one apart next year
  • Brake fluid flush.  Easy peasy. Old fluid looked nasty as this is wayyy over due.
  • Coolant level was good.
  • Checked the track alignment and tension, they looked good as they were adjusted last season.
  • Forgot to grease my suspension points but there's still time.

 

So OCers, what did I forget?

 

Cheers!

 

P.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Puggz said:

First time tearing apart a sled for me. I have 6,000km on my '17 ZR6000 RS edition so it was about time.  here's the list

 

  • Removed side panels and front.  Removed Muffler, lost/dropped 2 springs but they were recovered, sigh ;)
  • Removed chaincase cover, cleaned and inspected. No signs of wear and the chain tensioning pad was nice and smooth.  I was going to install a new gasket but the donkey's at Aberfoyle sold me the wrong one. The original looked good and after a wipe it went back in.  Lots of work to this but always better than being stranded with a breakdown. Poured in a bottle of new gear oil so its good to go.  My new 1/4 drive torque wrench got a workout :) 108 in/lbs for the chaincase bolts
  • Set the gap (.029") and replaced spark plugs
  • Removed the primary clutch, partially disassembled it and gave it a good cleaning. Not sure when the smell of brake cleaner is gonna ever leave my garage but it sure does the job.  Everything looked good, ran some scotchbrite over the sheeves for good measure and back on it went, torqued to 51 ft/lbs.  Didn't take apart the driven clutch, gave the sheeves the scotchbrite treatment.  I'll take this one apart next year
  • Brake fluid flush.  Easy peasy. Old fluid looked nasty as this is wayyy over due.
  • Coolant level was good.
  • Checked the track alignment and tension, they looked good as they were adjusted last season.
  • Forgot to grease my suspension points but there's still time.

 

So OCers, what did I forget?

 

Cheers!

 

P.

Sounds like you got most of it. How about checking the idler wheels for rough rolling bearings and checking the sliders for wear. Front runners should be checked for condition and missing carbide when you have it lifted up to grease the kingpins and ski pin bushings. Check operation of all lights. Check shock pistons for rust spots. Charge battery if not on tender.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should really, really take the brake caliper apart, and remove the rotor and check that the bearing inner race has not spun on the drive shaft.  The bearing needs to have the seal removed, washed out and re-greased.  This bearing is a slip fit on the shaft and WILL SPIN and destroy your driveshaft.  That will require shaft assy. replacement or spray welding and machining the area back to a tight fit.  My bearing was actually seized after being stored.  I checked it and fixed it before my shaft was destroyed.

 

I have developed a way to stop the bearing spinning.  Grind a keyway in the edge of the inner race with a dremel tool and a 1/8" round end tungsten carbide rotary file.

 

20210410_224900.thumb.jpg.5ffe942590dc7e8fb7e0266a7c87ca10.jpg

 

TIG weld a small tab on the side of the rotor hub to insert in the keyway on the edge of the bearing.

20210926_114244.thumb.jpg.83e650cdba14c9949212cb64084559ff.jpg

 

20210926_114010.thumb.jpg.c0c70fcddfb48d67ef1aab6cd7449c1c.jpg

 

Here is the bearing assembled in the caliper and on the shaft.  The tab on the rotor needs to be filed until it fits in the keyway with the hub flat against the bearing.

20210926_113837.thumb.jpg.2940186bafb419ea9a7d87994bde74f1.jpg

 

I also welded a 1" long plug in the hollow shaft.  It is center drilled and tapped for a M10 bolt.  Machined a cap to hold the rotor tight against the bearing, and the bearing against the inside circlip to stop radial sliding on the shaft.  I can't find my picture of the cap assembled on the outside of the rotor.  The outside snap ring is a pretty loose fit and allows the shaft to slide in and out which adds to the wear and tear.

 

The guy who designed this needs his a$$ kicked all around the engineering office.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The right hand drive shafy bearing will also spin.  I have a very similar fix with the tab key welded on the shaft shoulder and the keyway in the bearing facing in against the shoulder.  Shim washers made to go between the sprocket and bearing to hold the bearing tight to the shoulder.

 

All I ever do is re-design the mistakes of others.  The sled is super reliable now.  Pictures if you want them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Puggz said:

First time tearing apart a sled for me. I have 6,000km on my '17 ZR6000 RS edition so it was about time.  here's the list

 

  • Removed side panels and front.  Removed Muffler, lost/dropped 2 springs but they were recovered, sigh ;)
  • Removed chaincase cover, cleaned and inspected. No signs of wear and the chain tensioning pad was nice and smooth.  I was going to install a new gasket but the donkey's at Aberfoyle sold me the wrong one. The original looked good and after a wipe it went back in.  Lots of work to this but always better than being stranded with a breakdown. Poured in a bottle of new gear oil so its good to go.  My new 1/4 drive torque wrench got a workout :) 108 in/lbs for the chaincase bolts
  • Set the gap (.029") and replaced spark plugs
  • Removed the primary clutch, partially disassembled it and gave it a good cleaning. Not sure when the smell of brake cleaner is gonna ever leave my garage but it sure does the job.  Everything looked good, ran some scotchbrite over the sheeves for good measure and back on it went, torqued to 51 ft/lbs.  Didn't take apart the driven clutch, gave the sheeves the scotchbrite treatment.  I'll take this one apart next year
  • Brake fluid flush.  Easy peasy. Old fluid looked nasty as this is wayyy over due.
  • Coolant level was good.
  • Checked the track alignment and tension, they looked good as they were adjusted last season.
  • Forgot to grease my suspension points but there's still time.

 

So OCers, what did I forget?

 

Cheers!

 

P.

 

There is no mention of how many beers it took for this.....3 or 4 beer job :)

 

I was going to mention inspection of the skid & drive bearings, idler wheels and sliders.....but already noted.

I would consider shock rebuild if not done yet as well.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/12/2021 at 8:01 PM, Big Pussy said:

You should really, really take the brake caliper apart, and remove the rotor and check that the bearing inner race has not spun on the drive shaft.  The bearing needs to have the seal removed, washed out and re-greased.  This bearing is a slip fit on the shaft and WILL SPIN and destroy your driveshaft.  That will require shaft assy. replacement or spray welding and machining the area back to a tight fit.  My bearing was actually seized after being stored.  I checked it and fixed it before my shaft was destroyed.

 

I have developed a way to stop the bearing spinning.  Grind a keyway in the edge of the inner race with a dremel tool and a 1/8" round end tungsten carbide rotary file.

 

20210410_224900.thumb.jpg.5ffe942590dc7e8fb7e0266a7c87ca10.jpg

 

TIG weld a small tab on the side of the rotor hub to insert in the keyway on the edge of the bearing.

20210926_114244.thumb.jpg.83e650cdba14c9949212cb64084559ff.jpg

 

20210926_114010.thumb.jpg.c0c70fcddfb48d67ef1aab6cd7449c1c.jpg

 

Here is the bearing assembled in the caliper and on the shaft.  The tab on the rotor needs to be filed until it fits in the keyway with the hub flat against the bearing.

20210926_113837.thumb.jpg.2940186bafb419ea9a7d87994bde74f1.jpg

 

I also welded a 1" long plug in the hollow shaft.  It is center drilled and tapped for a M10 bolt.  Machined a cap to hold the rotor tight against the bearing, and the bearing against the inside circlip to stop radial sliding on the shaft.  I can't find my picture of the cap assembled on the outside of the rotor.  The outside snap ring is a pretty loose fit and allows the shaft to slide in and out which adds to the wear and tear.

 

The guy who designed this needs his a$$ kicked all around the engineering office.

 

https://www.barnofparts.com/apps/webstore/products/show/8034395?siteId=134334799&locale=en-US

 

RT Performance (Rob) hooked me up with this expander idea from the "Barn of Parts"

This Barn of Parts expander is out there to expand the slip fit enough to stop the race from slipping.  (BP has figured out a way to do it, but many don't have the tools or patience he seems to posses.)  The bearing still needs to be greased as I have always done since the failure I had on my 2018 Cat XF-8000.  I have found that grease is the key and these China bearings don't last without re-greasing every year.  I do all the bearings not getting some oil from the chain case.  Taking off the secondary clutch lets you easily re-grease the jackshaft bearing with a fine grease needle inserted under the inside seal lip.

 

Never lost another China bearing since.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/15/2021 at 11:03 AM, AC+YA said:

https://www.barnofparts.com/apps/webstore/products/show/8034395?siteId=134334799&locale=en-US

 

RT Performance (Rob) hooked me up with this expander idea from the "Barn of Parts"

This Barn of Parts expander is out there to expand the slip fit enough to stop the race from slipping.  (BP has figured out a way to do it, but many don't have the tools or patience he seems to posses.)  The bearing still needs to be greased as I have always done since the failure I had on my 2018 Cat XF-8000.  I have found that grease is the key and these China bearings don't last without re-greasing every year.  I do all the bearings not getting some oil from the chain case.  Taking off the secondary clutch lets you easily re-grease the jackshaft bearing with a fine grease needle inserted under the inside seal lip.

 

Never lost another China bearing since.

 

Wow, I had no idea.  I'll look into this for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/12/2021 at 8:01 PM, Big Pussy said:

You should really, really take the brake caliper apart, and remove the rotor and check that the bearing inner race has not spun on the drive shaft.  The bearing needs to have the seal removed, washed out and re-greased.  This bearing is a slip fit on the shaft and WILL SPIN and destroy your driveshaft.  That will require shaft assy. replacement or spray welding and machining the area back to a tight fit.  My bearing was actually seized after being stored.  I checked it and fixed it before my shaft was destroyed.

 

I have developed a way to stop the bearing spinning.  Grind a keyway in the edge of the inner race with a dremel tool and a 1/8" round end tungsten carbide rotary file.

 

20210410_224900.thumb.jpg.5ffe942590dc7e8fb7e0266a7c87ca10.jpg

 

TIG weld a small tab on the side of the rotor hub to insert in the keyway on the edge of the bearing.

20210926_114244.thumb.jpg.83e650cdba14c9949212cb64084559ff.jpg

 

20210926_114010.thumb.jpg.c0c70fcddfb48d67ef1aab6cd7449c1c.jpg

 

Here is the bearing assembled in the caliper and on the shaft.  The tab on the rotor needs to be filed until it fits in the keyway with the hub flat against the bearing.

20210926_113837.thumb.jpg.2940186bafb419ea9a7d87994bde74f1.jpg

 

I also welded a 1" long plug in the hollow shaft.  It is center drilled and tapped for a M10 bolt.  Machined a cap to hold the rotor tight against the bearing, and the bearing against the inside circlip to stop radial sliding on the shaft.  I can't find my picture of the cap assembled on the outside of the rotor.  The outside snap ring is a pretty loose fit and allows the shaft to slide in and out which adds to the wear and tear.

 

The guy who designed this needs his a$$ kicked all around the engineering office.

 

 

Is this what you're talking about??

 

 

Bearing.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Puggz said:

 

Is this what you're talking about??

 

 

Bearing.JPG

 

0DDF9F09-B0B5-478B-B1F7-DB3850235292.jpeg

09834DF2-1244-4B57-A9F5-0AF5C817FDE4.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Puggz said:

 

Is this what you're talking about??

 

 

Bearing.JPG

 

Yes.  That is the bearing I lost the first time out in the second season of riding my 2018 XF-8000.  I also grease the jackshaft bearing behind the secondary.  I have not had issues with the bearings on the chain case side as they get some oil.  I don't feel the ID race of the bearing in the caliper wants to slip until the bearing runs out of grease and and corrodes.  With plenty of grease they seem to hold up.  the seals and amount of grease from China don't seem to be right.  I just fill behind the ID lip and get the bearing lubricated to keep it from rusting and keep it running properly.  The expansion plug would better make sure that the shaft stays good even if the bearing goes. 

 

I take the secondary off and the outside half of the caliper so that the rotor can be slid off the spline for access to the caliper bearing.  You need to be handy with a way to get it up in the air and know how to bleed the brakes afterwards.  While up in the air, I drop the skid out and go through every bearing in the skid, replace sliders, and tighten the hub bolts of the original back wheels.  I don't replace bearings unless I feel a catch in them as they rotate.  I use a thin grease needle and add grease to all bearings unless I replace them.  I seem to replace more of the bearings on the top return wheels in the Cat skids,  I use a special tool I have made and welded to an air chisel to knock the old press fit bearings off the axle.  To get the bearing into and out of the aluminum caliper/bearing housing,  I use temperature extremes to expand and shrink the aluminum which changes must faster than the steel.     

 

In total quite a process, but no dealers I know of will do a real complete job of this.  They just replace after something goes out, but not other things which are next.  When replacing bearings, I try to use better bearings and have found some SkiDoo part numbers which directly cross reference and are actually made in the USA.

 

 

 

The cost to have it done 100% would be extreme.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. Wonder if I should get this driveshaft saver for my 18 600. I've only heard of issues on the yami versions although I suppose it would make sense to have issues on both since they are the same chassis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

Interesting. Wonder if I should get this driveshaft saver for my 18 600. I've only heard of issues on the yami versions although I suppose it would make sense to have issues on both since they are the same chassis.

Grease is the answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Interesting. Wonder if I should get this driveshaft saver for my 18 600. I've only heard of issues on the yami versions although I suppose it would make sense to have issues on both since they are the same chassis.

That saver unit is trying to expand the shaft.  It is actually deforming it into a triangular shape.  I think it will eventually work loose and slde out of end of the driveshaft.

 

That is why I used the key and keyway method.  My shaft had some spinning happen. There were score marks on both ends.  It took about 100 small hits with a center punch in rows to raise the metal all around the shaft.  A new shaft and track drivers are over $700 for a 7000 with extrovert drivers.  Enough that I did not want it to be destroyed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This was how badly the shaft was worn after the caliper bearing failed due to the lack of grease and then the corrosion which locked the bearing race and ground the shaft down. 

AA962BB0-0DCE-4E81-A03D-471C6B1B965B.jpeg

EC32D3EB-3A4D-4B75-96CB-E067C73A92EF.jpeg

88952346-395B-41CB-B919-7855BA92456C.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Interesting. Wonder if I should get this driveshaft saver for my 18 600. I've only heard of issues on the yami versions although I suppose it would make sense to have issues on both since they are the same chassis.

Cat's fail as much or more than the yamaha's. either keyway/pin the bearing, or use the expander, and add grease. Ski 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The odd thing is, not all seem to have the issue.....but I guess could.

It seems to be a more common issue on the turbo with big HP.

Never touched mine, when I was getting up in miles., I considered inspecting, but never did.....and never had an issue, sold now of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/19/2021 at 6:41 PM, stoney said:

The odd thing is, not all seem to have the issue.....but I guess could.

It seems to be a more common issue on the turbo with big HP.

Never touched mine, when I was getting up in miles., I considered inspecting, but never did.....and never had an issue, sold now of course.

 

Before I lost mine, I had a 2014 run for 15,000 miles before i sold it and never had an issue.  Guess you never know how good the bearing seal is or how much grease was put into that bearing?  Most will probably go a long way.  At least long enough for warranty.  My 2018 didn't make it past warranty.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/19/2021 at 5:52 PM, skidooboy said:

Cat's fail as much or more than the yamaha's. either keyway/pin the bearing, or use the expander, and add grease. Ski 

Is it because there are more Cat's built than Yamaha's ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AC+YA said:

 

Before I lost mine, I had a 2014 run for 15,000 miles before i sold it and never had an issue.  Guess you never know how good the bearing seal is or how much grease was put into that bearing?  Most will probably go a long way.  At least long enough for warranty.  My 2018 didn't make it past warranty.

 

 

15k with no issues - always a good thing :)

 

I only had one sled actually have a driveline bearing go on a local ride around Baysville - Wife was riding it, tells me there is a squeaking noise that randomly happened......

For good measure on one of my other past sleds with I think around 6000 miles on it, I figured I'd replace for good measure - of course bearing was still in good shape, not dry, etc.....

Last sled, as mentioned above, I thought about it, but never did it.

You just never know when you will have ones of those bad days on the trails!

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...