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Ski-Doo / 4-Stroke Must Haves


stoney

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Figured I would add some sledding related inquires and I was going to ask these questions at some point before the season starts anyways.

 

  • I believe I have read on a few occasions about fuse and/or relay issues on the Ski-Doo's and carrying spares is a must
  • Are there "better" fuses or relays to use/carry vs. the stock replacements
  • Do most with a 4-stroke carry with them a booster pack should you run into a dead or weak battery
  • anything else.....
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  • Obviously there are a slew of other standard things as well that most sledders carry or are considered must haves i.e. spare belt, ice scratchers, tools, tape, etc.....but I am more inclined to know what Doo or 4-stroke owners tend to carry that is specific to these two topics seeing as I am new to both a Doo as a sled and a 4-stroke engine
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I've had one frozen relay after running up the highway one morning with the sled in the back of the truck.  Threw the relay on the dash heater in the truck for 5 mins and then popped it back in and away we went.  I don't carry any spare fuses or relays (a good idea, but haven't bothered).  No booster pack either.  Do carry booster cables and a standard emergency kit (tow rope, first aid kit, candle, axe, brush saw, etc.  I have stratchers that come on some trips.  These sleds are more reliable than anything else, not less.  

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I carried a ratchet strap as a come along/tow strap and had to use it once when I got stuck alone. Not 4 stroke specific but I think needed with the heavier machines. 

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30 minutes ago, signfan said:

I've had one frozen relay after running up the highway one morning with the sled in the back of the truck.  Threw the relay on the dash heater in the truck for 5 mins and then popped it back in and away we went.  I don't carry any spare fuses or relays (a good idea, but haven't bothered).  No booster pack either.  Do carry booster cables and a standard emergency kit (tow rope, first aid kit, candle, axe, brush saw, etc.  I have stratchers that come on some trips.  These sleds are more reliable than anything else, not less.  

 

30 minutes ago, 04nightfire said:

I'd carry relays and a battery booster.  

And maybe a spare Doo sled based on your experience with the 900T...:rotflmao:

 

 

Thanks.....I thought I saw something about there being a better relay that had less issues in the cold, I am sure someone will chime in if what I am thinking is correct.

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1 minute ago, Poo Man said:

I carried a ratchet strap as a come along/tow strap and had to use it once when I got stuck alone. Not 4 stroke specific but I think needed with the heavier machines. 

Great idea ...... that is exactly what we saw a QC touring group use for some heavy touring machines that ended up in the rhubarb one year.

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Where do you expect to be riding ?

 

In the tropics of North Bay and warmer, or in the manly cold of the NCDN and parts east and west of that ? (-30C territory)

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55 minutes ago, stoney said:

 

And maybe a spare Doo sled based on your experience with the 900T...:rotflmao:

 

 

Thanks.....I thought I saw something about there being a better relay that had less issues in the cold, I am sure someone will chime in if what I am thinking is correct.

Lol.  I was going to say something but didn't.  I was also going to mention a sledge hammer to free up the frozen steering as well

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9 minutes ago, Big Pussy said:

Where do you expect to be riding ?

 

In the tropics of North Bay and warmer, or in the manly cold of the NCDN and parts east and west of that ? (-30C territory)

I ride in a variety of places, every year is different for me from parts of QC, Northern ON, Dorset area, sometimes Ghurst & North.......and I have rode Barrie to Wasaga many times years ago when they had an awesome year.

So on your "manly scale", I have rode & will ride anywhere from around freezing temps to -35/40.....like to avoid the -35/40 days, but when on a trip, that is not really an option! 

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12 minutes ago, stoney said:

I ride in a variety of places, every year is different for me from parts of QC, Northern ON, Dorset area, sometimes Ghurst & North.......and I have rode Barrie to Wasaga many times years ago when they had an awesome year.

So on your "manly scale", I have rode & will ride anywhere from around freezing temps to -35/40.....like to avoid the -35/40 days, but when on a trip, that is not really an option! 

The only time I had the dead issue and frozen steering with my 900T was in those temps.

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I have a sure fire way to guarantee the engine will start without the usual tearing off of panels and using hair driers but it includes you having to dig down into the engine bay far enough to get to the bottom of the oil sump pan or the front or back side of the engine block.  Most everyone on here would not do that.  But they would rather piss away the time outside the hotel with hair driers, space heaters, boost boxes, and maybe even lighting a fire.  They also say they have never had a problem either.  I have witnessed a few.  Even 800 2-strokes that they could not crank/pull.  I learned a lot riding a 2001 Thundercat in the far north.  If you are interested, let me know.

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To be honest here, carry what 'you ' think you'll need. Based on my riding,  I carry tow straps, and a few sled related basic tools. Since we ride the NCDN and Quebec mainly, i carry a foldable hand held saw. ( i will take a pic and post after). I have never ever experienced any issues with starting our sleds, all the way down to -45, 1200's, 850's and 900 T's. I've never had any fuse related issues either, ever, but I carry a few extra. We also carry new Oxygen helmet cords, that's one thing we've had issues with. I also run Dupont sliders and BRP carbide tipped ice scratchers.  Since running duponts,  I've never had to use the scratchers,  but they are there for those times.  That's it,  ride on.. For us,  it works.  Rode in any and all conditions and temps during the seasons. 

Edited by Turbo Doo
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2 minutes ago, Big Pussy said:

I have a sure fire way to guarantee the engine will start without the usual tearing off of panels and using hair driers but it includes you having to dig down into the engine bay far enough to get to the bottom of the oil sump pan or the front or back side of the engine block.  Most everyone on here would not do that.  But they would rather piss away the time outside the hotel with hair driers, space heaters, boost boxes, and maybe even lighting a fire.  They also say they have never had a problem either.  I have witnessed a few.  Even 800 2-strokes that they could not crank/pull.  I learned a lot riding a 2001 Thundercat in the far north.  If you are interested, let me know.

I am pretty sure I have seen or read some of your tips, which look very helpful BTW and I "think" newer sleds do not fall victim to this as much as they used too.

I have witnessed more dead batteries on newish 4-strokes causing no start, usually that is it.....but of course not always, I recall some older Yammies (before Yami-Cat) having a hard time starting some cold mornings.

If I were to have repeat issues in the cold, I would likely than look to re-engineer what the manufactures clearly could not do on a product actually intended to be used in the cold :headbang:, like you have or look at a different sled without these repeat issues.

 

Any 2-stroke Cats that I have rode or rode with, always started in the extreme cold, even the older Cat 1000......but needed a strong arm and make sure the pull rope was good, just start with slow easy pulls and work your way up......

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Turbo Doo said:

To be honest here, carry what 'you ' think you'll need. Based on my riding,  I carry tow straps, and a few sled related basic tools. Since we ride the NCDN and Quebec mainly, i carry a foldable hand held saw. ( i will take a pic and post after). I have never ever experienced any issues with starting our sleds, all the way down to -45. I've never had any fuse related issues either, ever. I also run Dupont sliders and BRP carbide tipped ice scratchers.  Since running duponts,  I've never had to use the scratchers,  but they are there for those times.  That's it,  ride on.. For us,  it works.  Rode in any and all conditions and temps during the seasons. 

Is the relay issue an old thing perhaps, I know I have read about this issue on more than one occasion and if I am not mistaken it seemed to be a Doo thing, with an easy fix, but you have to have the spare on hand or you are screwed.......maybe more of an issue for those that choose to thaw their sled in a heated garage between rides.....which I do myself.

 

I have carried a small folding saw as well many other things for years, but I was more looking or talking about the other not so common things you might need for a Doo or a 4-stroke specific to these two points.

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Just now, stoney said:

Is the relay issue an old thing perhaps, I know I have read about this issue on more than one occasion and if I am not mistaken it seemed to be a Doo thing, with an easy fix, but you have to have the spare on hand or you are screwed.......maybe more of an issue for those that choose to thaw their sled in a heated garage between rides.....which I do myself.

 

I have carried a small folding saw as well many other things for years, but I was more looking or talking about the other not so common things you might need for a Doo or a 4-stroke specific to these two points.

Rode 1200's and 900 T's for a while now, I have never had any issues with fuses etc. I doo maintain my stuff exceptionally well, and thaw out and dry and clean and go over everything after each trip. IIRC, the relays were freezing. Again, I've never experienced that.

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An in-line coolant heater worked great on my Apex. In-line didn't work great on a Vector, (apparently measure engine temp in different location).

Doo has a block heater as an option, which I will have installed by the dealer on my new Doo 900 ACE, and I see that Doo has a kit to retrofit older ACE motors. I'd say consider the block heater and chances are you are covered; especially since it is cheaper than that dam spare belt which is $229 (I use to make fun of Artic Cat for $200 belts.)  

Feb 2020, -38c Cochrane, almost nothing started, 4 or 2 stroke. Block heater would most likely have avoided the start issue. I do carry a battery boast pack, for use in a variety of situations.  

(I (we) carry a 1 inch 20ft tow strap, and either a big C clamp, or a sled tow strap, lets us all get on the strap (on the trail) and pull the ditched sled up onto the trail, or hook up to another sled.)

(We don't use the tow strap for our group anymore, since my older brother stopped sledding with us. :-) Use it to help other sleds a few times per season.)

Block Heater.JPG

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The power back that I've carried and fortunately haven't had to use yet.

20210608_002733.thumb.jpg.0cd67717dd9b57e04f21515f1c94abf6.jpg

 

I have a few of the micro relays packed as well. I havent heard of issues w/ them, but I think the larger relays BRP used started to crap out after 3 seasons.

 

BTDT (actually witnessed) an Apex that needed the 'hair dryer treatment' back in 2010. I don't know if the owner ever took any steps to rectify the cold weather starting issues. He still has the sled (40th Anniversary Edition) but for all intents is out of sledding.

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2 hours ago, revrnd said:

The power back that I've carried and fortunately haven't had to use yet.

20210608_002733.thumb.jpg.0cd67717dd9b57e04f21515f1c94abf6.jpg

 

I have a few of the micro relays packed as well. I havent heard of issues w/ them, but I think the larger relays BRP used started to crap out after 3 seasons.

 

BTDT (actually witnessed) an Apex that needed the 'hair dryer treatment' back in 2010. I don't know if the owner ever took any steps to rectify the cold weather starting issues. He still has the sled (40th Anniversary Edition) but for all intents is out of sledding.

I have a similar one. One day SJ called me stranded at the Pefferlaw post office in his Miata. The pack got it going! We were very pleasantly surprised. I have had to use it for my riding lawnmower on more then one occasion. I throw this into my luggage when sledding. Figure I may only need it at the motel on first start up, never have. But, simple peace of mind. RE-leaf and I both needed the hairdryer treatment when staying at Speckle Lake year ago, was minus 37 that morning. Executed perfectly and off we went for the day. Next morning we head to breakfast, hairdryer and extension cord is waiting at our table. 😔. I changed to the red relay that year. I do carry a couple of 3 and 5 amps fuses with me. I have blown the visor outlet a few times. 

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16 hours ago, Big Pussy said:

I have a sure fire way to guarantee the engine will start without the usual tearing off of panels and using hair driers but it includes you having to dig down into the engine bay far enough to get to the bottom of the oil sump pan or the front or back side of the engine block.  Most everyone on here would not do that.  But they would rather piss away the time outside the hotel with hair driers, space heaters, boost boxes, and maybe even lighting a fire.  They also say they have never had a problem either.  I have witnessed a few.  Even 800 2-strokes that they could not crank/pull.  I learned a lot riding a 2001 Thundercat in the far north.  If you are interested, let me know.

Very little waste of time on many Yammie models 9-10 years ago at Lac Faillon (southeast of Senneterre). As soon as the 1st guy came in to the lodge to get a hair dryer, the owner told him to go back outside and he would be there in a minute. The owner got a small pail of hot water, went out and pulled the lower right rear panel (above right footwell) back a bit and poured the water in. Waited about 5 seconds and the sled started.

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Boy that is a good way to fill the bottom of the belly pan with ice and maybe even freeze up the steering linkage. I did that once with my 1975 Dodge Coronet and froze the thottle open.

 

Again all these last minute cures can be eliminated if some time and very little money is invested.  Like I said above, very few people will do this.  Most new sled buyers spend an extra $1000 on a real windshield, spare belt, saddle bags, glove boxes, power outlets, etc and never deal with the simple fix to ensure the engine will start and not drain the battery trying.  In the end, you mostly need an outlet anyway.

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9 hours ago, revrnd said:

The power back that I've carried and fortunately haven't had to use yet.

20210608_002733.thumb.jpg.0cd67717dd9b57e04f21515f1c94abf6.jpg

 

I have a few of the micro relays packed as well. I havent heard of issues w/ them, but I think the larger relays BRP used started to crap out after 3 seasons.

 

BTDT (actually witnessed) an Apex that needed the 'hair dryer treatment' back in 2010. I don't know if the owner ever took any steps to rectify the cold weather starting issues. He still has the sled (40th Anniversary Edition) but for all intents is out of sledding.

X 2 on carrying the power pack, a few extra relays, and some spare fuses. I don't bother with booster cables anymore, since the power pack does the job, and is much smaller and lighter. It came in very handy one morning in Gowganda, after a -32 overnight low. I was lucky, as my sled was the only one that started...had to boost the other 3 in the group, using the power pack, and it did the job. As I recall, the emblem on the front of the other 3 sleds resembled tuning forks...;-)

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1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Very little waste of time on many Yammie models 9-10 years ago at Lac Faillon (southeast of Senneterre). As soon as the 1st guy came in to the lodge to get a hair dryer, the owner told him to go back outside and he would be there in a minute. The owner got a small pail of hot water, went out and pulled the lower right rear panel (above right footwell) back a bit and poured the water in. Waited about 5 seconds and the sled started.

We ran 6 Yamahas, Vectors and Apexs and Ventures, since 2010, all of us went to the SS solenoid, and never had the cold start problem (because of the solenoid) again. The Apex had an in-line heater, so even Cochrane cold, no problems. The Vector, no in-line and a 4 year old battery, no go -38c; hair dryer and many boost attempts, and as mentioned, most sleds in the entire Westway parking lot didn't started that morning. (I also severed my  subscapularis on the right arm, the day before the trip on that 700 Formula, trying to pull start it in the cold, years ago. Sledding that week was 80% left arm and 20% right arm until I came back. (Good entertainment at the bar when you can rotate your arm behind you and extra 90 degrees.))

So, in 10 years of 4 strokes, two, maybe 3 cold start issues over the years, I'm ok with that. Pretty confident that the block heater will minimize any issues on the new Doo. Battery booster pack will cover any other situation. I would hope that Doo has SS solenoids, compared to that 2004 GSX.

On my Vector, using warm water wouldn't be my first choice, and opening the side panels with that one rubber grommet on stud is high risk for panel breakage to me in the real cold.

Over the years, we all generally ended up on the same sled Manufacture, which enabled a broader depth of knowledge, and an alternate sled to compare to. Now, I'm the only Doo, the other Doo (from our Vectors) guy flipped to a Polaris SC, 2 2020 Vipers, 1 2014 Viper and 1 2012 Venture.

And ya, I'm close to $1K in items for the new Doo. 

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9 hours ago, revrnd said:

The power back that I've carried and fortunately haven't had to use yet.

20210608_002733.thumb.jpg.0cd67717dd9b57e04f21515f1c94abf6.jpg

 

I have a few of the micro relays packed as well. I havent heard of issues w/ them, but I think the larger relays BRP used started to crap out after 3 seasons.

 

BTDT (actually witnessed) an Apex that needed the 'hair dryer treatment' back in 2010. I don't know if the owner ever took any steps to rectify the cold weather starting issues. He still has the sled (40th Anniversary Edition) but for all intents is out of sledding.

What do the cards do?

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1 hour ago, Big Pussy said:

Boy that is a good way to fill the bottom of the belly pan with ice and maybe even freeze up the steering linkage. I did that once with my 1975 Dodge Coronet and froze the thottle open.

 

Again all these last minute cures can be eliminated if some time and very little money is invested.  Like I said above, very few people will do this.  Most new sled buyers spend an extra $1000 on a real windshield, spare belt, saddle bags, glove boxes, power outlets, etc and never deal with the simple fix to ensure the engine will start and not drain the battery trying.  In the end, you mostly need an outlet anyway.

You are 100% correct on what most new sled buyers put $ into.  I have already done it for my new on-order Doo and already planned to add the block heater suggested by Gadgetman.  It should add the assurance on the -40° nights that when able to be plugged in, that the following morning will not be a bad one. 

 

I have always been able to slowly put heat into my two-stroke motors and eventually get them started on the Cats.  My electric start Cat 800's have always started with just the key or button.  My Yamacat's have failed me a few times just because the battery's could not crank them enough at those temps.  Your fix would have done it as all those times I had access to plugs which powered hair dyers under the hood for 15 minutes.  I hated asking for use of hair dryers and now returning to the 4-stroke I want to basically take care of the issue before hand much as you have done.  Hoping I have great success with the new ACE 900 Turbo much the same as many others have.  I wanted to get back to a 4-stroke for my retirement years and long miles I want to run.  My Cat's with 2-strokes (even the new made in USA motors) have done great for longevity, but I try not to go over 20K miles before selling them.  I have one which is getting close.

 

You do a fantastic amount of work to keep and even improve your sleds which is great.  I just want them to keep running and I want to lazy with no exhaust valves to clean.  I still keep grease in all bearings unless oil lubed.  Thanks for all the great ideas I have taken away from your posts.

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