2021 trail permits sold

[zoso]

1 minute ago, Spiderman said:

I think you would need to file a request officially through their Freedom of Information Office and my suspicion is that it would be declined, but one could always try.

Sales numbers are nothing. They have been published multiple times in the past. No way they went through all that to do it.

[Spiderman]

9 minutes ago, zoso said:

Sales numbers are nothing. They have been published multiple times in the past. No way they went through all that to do it.

Ah, I didn't know.

This should be easy then based on what you are saying for those that feel the need to know.

[1049]

I was told by someone high up in the OFSC last December that pre season sales were up 60 percent over the previous year 

Edited May 6, 2021 by 1049

[signfan]

7 hours ago, AC+YA said:

 

I have talked a bit with a couple clubs where I ride often and have been warmly received over the past 20 years.  These clubs over the years have naturally had lots of cross border riders from the USA.  The Alouettes and the Trailblazers once had many trail passes sold to people from the states.  I know that since the 9-11 attack the world has changed.  Passports, exchange rates, the loss of local permit sales, no more try our trails free weekend, no more 1-day passes, and now border closings due to covid all have come into play. I think at one time after the close of the wood mill in Dub, US permits helped maintain the minimums of permit sales needed to remain a club.    

 

It is much harder for me to get riders to visit Ontario with me for a weekend.  There was a time when the guys would decide to go across the border for a quick ride and just grab a day pass at the party store or ski hill in Searchmont and run up to Halfway and back.  It's no longer easy.  Canadian's don't understand that the majority of people in the US don't have a passport, just as my 4th passport has expired and I am in no hurry to get a new one.  I live in Michigan where an enhanced drivers license which I do have also works.  Many states don't offer such.  Some haven't paid attention to the new "on line" pick your club where you ride most either.  I spent some time trying to pick my clubs when I got Quebec Permits and it was not easy to get where I wanted it to go since language is another barrier. 

 

It is an expensive well planned process now and the numbers touring have also dropped.  When I ask do you have a DUI, insurance, passport or enhanced DL, the trip plans end and they say,  "let's just go to the UP".  

 

If the D trail is closed, I might invest in a deep snow sled and see if I can make it up the old D trail to Chapleau from Searchmont.  Maybe ox and ski can come and show me how it's done?      

It was 911 and mainly US department of homeland security rules that got us to a point where passports are needed.  Once covid ends I suspect you will see a big push from OFSC to market state side.  It was in the plans before Covid hit.  That said the rules at the border will not change to allow more touring snowmobilers to enter with less hassle.  Just the world we are in.  Add needing proof of immunization to the list of needed docs that will be coming.  I personally welcome the US sledders.  That said the system here will survive with or without them.  

[signfan]

7 hours ago, Nutter said:

 

As the old saying goes, if one has enough concern over such numbers then they should have enough concern to be involved with their local club at some capacity, where they will be able to see all those numbers. 

True enough.  Still it's no secret.  Should be published by ofsc once a year to all permit holders.

[Hoosier]

57 minutes ago, signfan said:

It was 911 and mainly US department of homeland security rules that got us to a point where passports are needed.  Once covid ends I suspect you will see a big push from OFSC to market state side.  It was in the plans before Covid hit.  That said the rules at the border will not change to allow more touring snowmobilers to enter with less hassle.  Just the world we are in.  Add needing proof of immunization to the list of needed docs that will be coming.  I personally welcome the US sledders.  That said the system here will survive with or without them.  

I sure hope we can back up there next winter. Rode the UP for the first time in about 6 seasons last year. Enjoyed it but Northern Ontario is where it's at for me.

[Turbo Doo]

8 hours ago, signfan said:

True enough.  Still it's no secret.  Should be published by ofsc once a year to all permit holders.

X2

[Sksman]

The regular permit buyer should clearly be informed.  It’s no wonder the rumours fly around about who gets paid to groom or free sleds for people.  Or whatever.

 

https://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-statistics-and-facts.html

 

Snowmobiling is a big business and the revenues generated by permit sales should be clearly explained to the permit purchasers.

 

How many of the 43,000sleds sold in 2020 were in Ontario?

 

How many new sleds sold in 2021?

 

How many ordered in Ontario in 2022?

[stoney]

1 hour ago, Sksman said:

The regular permit buyer should clearly be informed.  It’s no wonder the rumours fly around about who gets paid to groom or free sleds for people.  Or whatever.

 

https://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-statistics-and-facts.html

 

Snowmobiling is a big business and the revenues generated by permit sales should be clearly explained to the permit purchasers.

 

How many of the 43,000sleds sold in 2020 were in Ontario?

 

How many new sleds sold in 2021?

 

How many ordered in Ontario in 2022?

What a great link!

 Thank you 

[02Sled]

1 hour ago, Sksman said:

The regular permit buyer should clearly be informed.  It’s no wonder the rumours fly around about who gets paid to groom or free sleds for people.  Or whatever.

 

https://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-statistics-and-facts.html

 

Snowmobiling is a big business and the revenues generated by permit sales should be clearly explained to the permit purchasers.

 

How many of the 43,000sleds sold in 2020 were in Ontario?

 

How many new sleds sold in 2021?

 

How many ordered in Ontario in 2022?

Those numbers would be from the manufacturers and the dealers. 

[stoney]

9 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

Those numbers would be from the manufacturers and the dealers. 

Recheck the link, more info there than what dealers and manufacturers would have. 

[02Sled]

10 minutes ago, stoney said:

Recheck the link, more info there than what dealers and manufacturers would have. 

My response was to the questions he asked in his post... 

 

How many of the 43,000sleds sold in 2020 were in Ontario?

 

How many new sleds sold in 2021?

 

How many ordered in Ontario in 2022?

[Sksman]

1 hour ago, stoney said:

What a great link!

 Thank you 

43000 sleds sold in Canada is a lot of new sleds year after year.

 

But also shows how small the industry really is.

 

[stoney]

15 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

My response was to the questions he asked in his post... 

 

How many of the 43,000sleds sold in 2020 were in Ontario?

 

How many new sleds sold in 2021?

 

How many ordered in Ontario in 2022?

Gotcha.....assumed it was a statement about what was in the link.....

[stoney]

12 minutes ago, Sksman said:

43000 sleds sold in Canada is a lot of new sleds year after year.

 

But also shows how small the industry really is.

 

I was surprised what the smaller delta was on sleds sold in US vs. Cdn......but the much bigger delta on registered sleds & revenue generated in each of the countries.

[revrnd]

14 hours ago, signfan said:

True enough.  Still it's no secret.  Should be published by ofsc once a year to all permit holders.

I do recall in the mags a few years ago it was all very vague. All they published were percentages.

[Turbo Doo]

Publish it. Pretty easy and should have no excuses. 

[tricky]

3 hours ago, Turbo Doo said:

Publish it. Pretty easy and should have no excuses. 

X2. What's the big secret or non-secret, depending on whether or not you are an active club member, or otherwise in the communications loop?  

[Strong Farmer]

All I can say if numbers were sky high like some riders think they are ofsc would publish numbers.  They did just that first year we had early early permits put into place.  
If you go to Costco and buy a membership, do they tell how many memberships were sold that year? 
 

[signfan]

8 hours ago, stoney said:

Recheck the link, more info there than what dealers and manufacturers would have. 

Snowmobiling.org is ran by the international snowmobilers association (ISMA).  It's an organization owned and operated by the 4 sled manufacturers.  

 

From the site

 

We are an organization representing the four snowmobile manufacturers. We coordinate committees within the industry to handle concerns such as snowmobile safety, the promotion of the lifestyle activity of snowmobiling, keeping accurate statistics, reporting the growth of the industry and the positive economic impact snowmobiling has throughout the world. There are four major manufacturers that build snowmobiles:

 

If you think about it who has a higher interest in knowing all of those stats.  They typically have a presence at major snowmobiling events (OFSC convention, etc)

Edited May 7, 2021 by signfan

[revrnd]

I think the peak permit sales that I recall seeing was 120,000 (in the 90s?). I think in recent years it's hovered around 90,000.

[zoso]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:24 PM, Strong Farmer said:

All I can say if numbers were sky high like some riders think they are ofsc would publish numbers.  They did just that first year we had early early permits put into place.  
If you go to Costco and buy a membership, do they tell how many memberships were sold that year? 
 

Costco publishes those numbers.

[burndog]

nunya like the OLG