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gobills

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March '08 (I think) me, my boy, and a chum were planning to make a huge ride from Hearst up to Moosonee, and if all was fine at that point, I wanted to run up the shoreline and bring the Albany back on return. Marc said that the Albany part wasn't worth the bother as there was nothing to see, but still, would be cool to doo it once eh?

 

We had sleighs all in tow, all set to camp out at night. Enough spare gas to git 2 strokes from Albany all the way back to Hearst. We did leave the kitchen sink t'home, but I did have heat (if needed for whatever) many spare bearings and such, cots, dbl -30 sleeping bags for everybody. (From my experience, at least one of my -30's was cool at +20F sleeping on the snow, so)

 

I put new (2 ring) pistons in my boys sled before we left as the compression was not what it could have been, and I'd had a 2st ATV die on a trip recently - and all I can figger is that the compression was just too low to start. Didn't want that to happen!

 

All this prep werk, and not too far outta town, we had burnt down 2 of the 3 sleds already. (My boy's sled being the only one alive) Those flatslides are known to have a lean spot, and with the sleighs in tow, we were steady on the gas and just hitting that lean spot in the carb.

 

We loaded back up and headed south. I decided that I wouldn't try that run again until I had a 4 stroke. 

 

I have ridden with a few 4 stroke sleds in the mountains. The heavy nose makes descending a big hill a bigger deal as the front end wants to settle into the snow that much more, making the descent seem even that much more steep. And when (not if) you git stuck, they are just that much heavier. Now with the 3" paddles, we don't git stuck NEAR like we did just one generation of sled before, but still. 

 

The 4 strokes that I have rode with were all turbo's. Sure, the OEM M11's that I posted recently, but also an RX1ton that the dealer in Gunnison had back in the day. That thing was amazing! We were at a big hill - Napoleon Pass I think. The snow had a slight crust on it that my ski's kept wanting to break through and try to fall over.... and under that was sugar. I think I had a 151 x 2 Challenger on at that time? I made it 1/3 of the way up the hill was all. My chum made it 1/2 way?

 

Along comes What's-His-Name with the RX1 with a 165, and not only did he make the top, but he cought a lot of air up there as well! I'm sure he'd been over the top of that many times in his day, so he knew what was up there, but being an outsider, I would never hit the top like that, so that was REALLY amazing!

 

Then another guy that I ride with - that makes the sled jacks - he had a 4str Phazer that he had a turbo put on. That was impressive for what it was, but I didn't expect him to have it next year. He blew a belt on "our" hill, and I went to help him with it, and with it laying over on the side (turning it back down the hill) he was dripping oil down onto the pipe. Not good....

 

2 weeks later he rolled it down a hill and lodged it into a tree, and he was riding alone, and it caught farr and burnt to the ground. Not sure if I have a pic of that or not. I might - somewhere....

 

So, for my application - I have decided that maybe 4 strokes aren't for everyone. While I think I might like one for on trail use, I think I will stick to the 2 strokes, and the 850 seems to be built much stronger than traditional, and with fuel infection - that lean spot should be gone. So I may give that another shot one day. Although I am sure that a 4 stroke would be fine for the river run.

BillsPhazerBurnt.jpg

Edited by Ox
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3 hours ago, signfan said:

900 ace blizzard is the best sled I've owned.  My wife's has 25,000 km on hers and still going strong.  Mine is pushing 16,000 km.  I'd love to get a new pair, but truth is I'll probably push mine past 20,000 km and hers closer to 30,000 km before dealing.  They start everytime and handle just fine. Handle better than my 05 500ss rev 2 stroke.  Quiet, comfortable and fun machines to ride.  I've come up with a rule in our house.  Only 2 stroke engines I'll own is a Stihl weed eater and a Stihl chainsaw. 

I was surprised by the handling w/ the extra weight consider the 4 strokes I had ridden in the past. Well I waited long enough w/ my REV before a sled came along that I liked ;)

2 hours ago, tricky said:

Agreed! But Skidoo continues to $hit in their own nest by not offering a 900 ace sled with a 129 skid. Crazy. I put over 20K km on my Blizzard and was lucky enough to find a low km TNT for the next couple of years, but I sure would like to buy a new one and I am not alone. Maybe Polaris will have something?

Can someone explain to me what is the rationale for the Freeride model is? To my uneducated eye, I really can't see any difference between it & the multiple Summit & Backcountry models.

 

How difficult is it to mate the 129" MXZ tunnel to the 4 stroke 'front end'? I'm sure it can be done depending on how much re-engineering you want to do. Or is it just something simple as riveting a shorter tunnel to the front? Anyone have a couple of donor sleds for some prototype work? 

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I'm not an authority on the Freerides, but I think:

 

A) They have a shorter tunnel now'days?

Meaning that the 165 will have a 151 tunnel and no snow flap.

It will overheat on the packed trail,  but if you are jumping/dropping these, if you come down on the back end, you are less likely to damage the tunnel.

Also - snowflaps are a big drag in deep snow, and especially if you think that you want [try] to back up in deep snow. 

I will bungie my flap up when I want to back up.

 

B] I believe that these have stiffer suspensions - as they are designed for those clowns that like to jump off cliffs, cornices, and build ramps.

 

C) They may have a shorter running board, but I'm not sure.

When you are trenching in 4' deep, floating on the boards is a problem.

 

 

.

 

 

Edited by Ox
big drag
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1 hour ago, revrnd said:

I was surprised by the handling w/ the extra weight consider the 4 strokes I had ridden in the past. Well I waited long enough w/ my REV before a sled came along that I liked ;)

Can someone explain to me what is the rationale for the Freeride model is? To my uneducated eye, I really can't see any difference between it & the multiple Summit & Backcountry models.

 

How difficult is it to mate the 129" MXZ tunnel to the 4 stroke 'front end'? I'm sure it can be done depending on how much re-engineering you want to do. Or is it just something simple as riveting a shorter tunnel to the front? Anyone have a couple of donor sleds for some prototype work? 

Free ride is closer to a summit. Backcountry is more of true crossover from trail. I agree seems to be a lot of model overlap. Keep in mind we are a small market segment here in Ontario. I took my 146 backcountry to Golden BC for month of March last year. When you spend time in the west you can see how much more application there is for these models. Shared a couple pics..just because. 

9567B6DB-4EF5-488C-A84D-31437BB0BAA7.jpeg

1E501D29-C85D-4521-9202-6050ED205B61.jpeg

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On 2/17/2021 at 1:52 PM, Turbo Doo said:

My new 2022 Sled ArcticJC. Im ordering one...

Don’t linger I was at my Dealer this morning picking up a belt ski doo is only giving him 60 sleds he thinks they will all be sold out soon . Wasn’t planning on spring ordering today but thought I better if I wanted one

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6 hours ago, tricky said:

Agreed! But Skidoo continues to $hit in their own nest by not offering a 900 ace sled with a 129 skid. Crazy. I put over 20K km on my Blizzard and was lucky enough to find a low km TNT for the next couple of years, but I sure would like to buy a new one and I am not alone. Maybe Polaris will have something?

X 100, tricky. The 900 NA in the 129 Blizzard is a near perfect trail sled, especially in the tight-and-twisties. Well-equipped, great handling, nice ride, and lots of corner-to-corner torque.

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22 minutes ago, irREVerent said:

X 100, tricky. The 900 NA in the 129 Blizzard is a near perfect trail sled, especially in the tight-and-twisties. Well-equipped, great handling, nice ride, and lots of corner-to-corner torque.

I have never been happier with my 2016 900 blizzard,  I am amazed at the torque the sled has at a low rpm , there is no need  to crank up the rpm to climb steep hills

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My 129 got me into the woodlot today. I wouldn't want to break trail all day w/ it, but it can be done.

 

@tricky @signfan @irREVerent @Muskoka Bill As the corporate types would say, "You're not looking at the big picture". Some of us were probably changing fouled plugs on sleds before these 'experts' were born.

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7 minutes ago, revrnd said:

My 129 got me into the woodlot today. I wouldn't want to break trail all day w/ it, but it can be done.

 

@tricky @signfan @irREVerent @Muskoka Bill As the corporate types would say, "You're not looking at the big picture". Some of us were probably changing fouled plugs on sleds before these 'experts' were born.

Yes I hear you. I have 50+ yrs behind the handlebars myself. The demographic is changing...wether we like it or not. 

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10 hours ago, J Feces said:

I haven’t looked that close on the new offerings...but I’m not sure I understand. The 900 is only offered in renegade 137 in skid? Vs 129 in skid? Why is that such a big problem? I don’t think I’ll ever buy shorter skid again myself. I was looking for 900 turbo in 146-154 backcountry but will have to stick with 850 if that’s the chassis for me. Thanks for clarifying. 

Its all about the right tool for the job. The snowmobiling that I most enjoy is on groomed twisty trails as found in Muskoka, Kawartha and Haliburton. I want the sled to turn "right now" when I say so, and stay on my side of the trail. I am not a boon docker at all, so I don't need the 137 or longer track, and believe it or not, a 137 won't turn like a 129, all other things being equal. That doesn't matter if you aren't riding nine tenths pace or more, but sometimes I want to push the handling envelope. This season I have only ridden in D4,5 and 9, and a 129 skid is no(or little) advantage there. The 137 skid would help the suspension bridge the moguls that develop on the wide open fields. If I always, or mostly rode the field trails of south western Ontario and the power corridors of the far north, then I would want more power and a 137. Since you admit to looking on the dark side at turbo power and powder length chassis, your chosen riding is different than mine (I hope). Your tool should be different from mine. I tried a 2006 Renegade 600 SDI, and a 2015 Renegade 600 ETEC. I liked both sleds and will admit that they gave up very little turning ability once set up absolutely for turning accuracy, but the extra trail breaking ability that they offered, I never used. Hence my preference for the shorty. Also I like the practicality of the 129. Takes up less room in the crowded toy garage, in the trailer and in the back of my truck. Obviously Skidoo feels that there aren't a lot of people feel as strongly as I do about this. I might quit sledding not because of a pandemic, or global warming or politics, but because my sled choice became obsolete. 

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2 hours ago, tricky said:

Its all about the right tool for the job. The snowmobiling that I most enjoy is on groomed twisty trails as found in Muskoka, Kawartha and Haliburton. I want the sled to turn "right now" when I say so, and stay on my side of the trail. I am not a boon docker at all, so I don't need the 137 or longer track, and believe it or not, a 137 won't turn like a 129, all other things being equal. That doesn't matter if you aren't riding nine tenths pace or more, but sometimes I want to push the handling envelope. This season I have only ridden in D4,5 and 9, and a 129 skid is no(or little) advantage there. The 137 skid would help the suspension bridge the moguls that develop on the wide open fields. If I always, or mostly rode the field trails of south western Ontario and the power corridors of the far north, then I would want more power and a 137. Since you admit to looking on the dark side at turbo power and powder length chassis, your chosen riding is different than mine (I hope). Your tool should be different from mine. I tried a 2006 Renegade 600 SDI, and a 2015 Renegade 600 ETEC. I liked both sleds and will admit that they gave up very little turning ability once set up absolutely for turning accuracy, but the extra trail breaking ability that they offered, I never used. Hence my preference for the shorty. Also I like the practicality of the 129. Takes up less room in the crowded toy garage, in the trailer and in the back of my truck. Obviously Skidoo feels that there aren't a lot of people feel as strongly as I do about this. I might quit sledding not because of a pandemic, or global warming or politics, but because my sled choice became obsolete. 

I hear you. Would seem crazy to give up/lose a member of the fraternity because the sled he wants to ride is only available 4-5 in longer than was previously available.... Hope you keep riding. Cheers 

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14 hours ago, snowchopper said:

Pretty sure Brp quit making 129 4 strokes to reduce the number of models they were producing for 4 strokes. All about cutting costs probably.:wtf:

Sled builders will always try to cut costs where they can as any well magaged company normally does although some cut quality to accomplish the goal.

I think Ski Doo has dropped those 129's for 2 reasons. Firstly there seems to be more demand for 137's.

Secondly, while I'm not familiar with the exact specs for the 129 Doo chassis vs. the 137, on my Yamaha the only difference is about 6 inches of aluminum tail on the tunnel, longer slide rails and a longer track. Not a lot of total additional cost involved but if they can get an extra $1200 to $1,500. at point of sale then they will make more money. 

 

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All this talk aboot the new Mach Zed, but I don't think that anyone has mentioned the new Lynx?

I know that most of y'all are more aboot fast trails than boondocking, but Shirley there's a boondocker on here - somewhere.... Other than SDB, as he rides those green things....

 

Not a week or so ago I was reading in Snowtech why you won't see a Lynx model sold west of the Atlantic.

Then my chum texts me aboot maybe buying a Lynx.

 

What?

 

I can see him buying a Lynx to have for heading North. (Algoma)

He likes to have  the new tech. We picked up a factory demo sled from Fast in Eveluth, Minnisnowta once back around 2003? A mountain sled called the "Blade". Has an 800 Poo in it. No chaincase? Or running backwards? .. something odd aboot it anyway...

 

He said that he just sold his 600 Summit that he kept around for going north, so maybe?

 

Or he will bring an 800 165 Summit that he keeps in Colorado - like a 2015 maybe? That last I knew was almost through "break-in" (He found 174 soon after, and has ridden that exclusively since) and bring it back home for North, and buy a Turbo for out there. He just found out that they have been selling OEM turbo's. LOL! He hasn't bought a new sled in maybe 5 years or so. Has to be an all time record for him! 

 

Same guy showed up at my shop one day - aboot 15 yrs ago, and says "I'm thinking aboot buying sumpthing". 

But he wasn't sure, new bike? (he did buy an ATK) Sled? ATV? He wasn't sure what, but wanted to buy a new toy of some flavour....

 

First world problems I guess eh?

 

 

Fast Blade in the rear.

I think that he still has it?

 

 

.

DanBillCrestedButte.jpg

Edited by Ox
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14 hours ago, J Feces said:

I hear you. Would seem crazy to give up/lose a member of the fraternity because the sled he wants to ride is only available 4-5 in longer than was previously available.... Hope you keep riding. Cheers 

I wouldn't give up sledding only because I couldn't get a 129 skid, but that in combination with other factors, including my physical conditioning, could prompt my exit. My current sled is good for at least two more years. If I can get three more out of it, it might be time to wind it down - take up hockey or X-country skiing.:wink:

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9 hours ago, Ox said:

All this talk aboot the new Mach Zed, but I don't think that anyone has mentioned the new Lynx?

I know that most of y'all are more aboot fast trails than boondocking, but Shirley there's a boondocker on here - somewhere.... Other than SDB, as he rides those green things....

 

Not a week or so ago I was reading in Snowtech why you won't see a Lynx model sold west of the Atlantic.

Then my chum texts me aboot maybe buying a Lynx.

 

What?

 

I can see him buying a Lynx to have for heading North. (Algoma)

He likes to have  the new tech. We picked up a factory demo sled from Fast in Eveluth, Minnisnowta once back around 2003? A mountain sled called the "Blade". Has an 800 Poo in it. No chaincase? Or running backwards? .. something odd aboot it anyway...

 

He said that he just sold his 600 Summit that he kept around for going north, so maybe?

 

Or he will bring an 800 165 Summit that he keeps in Colorado - like a 2015 maybe? That last I knew was almost through "break-in" (He found 174 soon after, and has ridden that exclusively since) and bring it back home for North, and buy a Turbo for out there. He just found out that they have been selling OEM turbo's. LOL! He hasn't bought a new sled in maybe 5 years or so. Has to be an all time record for him! 

 

Same guy showed up at my shop one day - aboot 15 yrs ago, and says "I'm thinking aboot buying sumpthing". 

But he wasn't sure, new bike? (he did buy an ATK) Sled? ATV? He wasn't sure what, but wanted to buy a new toy of some flavour....

 

First world problems I guess eh?

 

 

Fast Blade in the rear.

I think that he still has it?

 

 

.

DanBillCrestedButte.jpg

Funny you should mention the lack of chatter about the Lynx coming here! I think there are two problems here. 

The impression they are only for off trail and the recent Turbo/HP wars that are taking place. Here's a little bit of insight on the new to us Lynx Rave RE.

I received a phone call yesterday asking if Teener and I would like to check out this sled!! I agreed and we were to head over today. We rode over to the sled's location and when we pulled up it stood out like a (good) sore thumb. This thing just oozes cool!! I am not going to get into a technical report, but one thing needs to be said this is not a Ski-Doo. We were fortunate to be able to get some seat time on a good mix of trails, B112 (bush trail) B103 (rail trail) HCSA 7 (bush trail) and a couple of short lake runs. The differences other than the 850 engine and a few other items are mind blowing!! I would need some more seat time to see if this sled is right for 300 plus km's of Central Ontario trail riding but I wouldn't call this an off-trail sled. I was just so excited about being able to ride this sled I had to share. 

You High HP guys and gals really need to check this sled out.

 

Livin'

 

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I remember 1 season when a Finn (Pauli Pippola?) came to North America to race a Lynx. The sled wasn't really all that impressive. Not sure what year it was, but it was before Toni Haikonen made the trek over in '94 or '95 (racing an F chassis MXZx 440).

 

Over the years their they've pretty much had free rein to design their own suspensions.

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2 hours ago, livin' on the b103 said:

Funny you should mention the lack of chatter about the Lynx coming here! I think there are two problems here. 

The impression they are only for off trail and the recent Turbo/HP wars that are taking place. Here's a little bit of insight on the new to us Lynx Rave RE.

I received a phone call yesterday asking if Teener and I would like to check out this sled!! I agreed and we were to head over today. We rode over to the sled's location and when we pulled up it stood out like a (good) sore thumb. This thing just oozes cool!! I am not going to get into a technical report, but one thing needs to be said this is not a Ski-Doo. We were fortunate to be able to get some seat time on a good mix of trails, B112 (bush trail) B103 (rail trail) HCSA 7 (bush trail) and a couple of short lake runs. The differences other than the 850 engine and a few other items are mind blowing!! I would need some more seat time to see if this sled is right for 300 plus km's of Central Ontario trail riding but I wouldn't call this an off-trail sled. I was just so excited about being able to ride this sled I had to share. 

You High HP guys and gals really need to check this sled out.

 

Livin'

 

Will these be only available at select locations?... as in BRP or????

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8 hours ago, T bird said:

Will these be only available at select locations?... as in BRP or????

I have no idea how these will get to market. A current Ski-Doo dealer should know as they have been publicly announced by BRP. I'll be talking with my dealer today, I'll see what they know. I do believe they will be like the Mach Z, limited edition and pricey!!

 

Livin'

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3 hours ago, livin' on the b103 said:

I have no idea how these will get to market. A current Ski-Doo dealer should know as they have been publicly announced by BRP. I'll be talking with my dealer today, I'll see what they know. I do believe they will be like the Mach Z, limited edition and pricey!!

 

Livin'

Spring order only at any BRP dealer.

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Talked to a dealer today - said he can't keep ink in his pen since the release of the new line-up - order after order coming in - going to be a good year for dealers - which is nice to see.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Turbo Doo said:

By the sounds of it, dont wait until March 31st to spring order.  Doo has a number they want to see, and its closing in. From my sources, they know what they want to build,  can get built etc.

If it's anything like in the past the dealers put in their orders @ the winter dealer meetings & thats that.

 

I snowchecked sleds in '94, '00 & '03. When I was on the fence about getting the 440 for '95, the dealer said I'd better make up my mind as he was only getting 3 & 2 had deposits against them. I said well the snow check promotion wasn't over yet, so what was the rush? He explained that they see the sleds, put in their orders & the new model info is released to the public. Then the customers put their deposits down on what's available.

 

"Isn't that kind of backwards?" He just shrugged his shoulders & said that's the way it is". I guess I was thinking too logically?

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