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North Bay Parry Sound Health Unit ordering area OFSC trails closed


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3 minutes ago, stoney said:

So that means the fine would in fact be $65 for trespassing on closed OFSC trails vs $880 as posted. 
Perhaps misunderstanding or a stretch to deter people from doing it as $65 is hardly a deterrent. 

 

Trespassing would mean you ride to the next road, then road run back home or trailer.

That would suck.

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1 minute ago, Spiderman said:

Has anyone looked to confirm that a local PHU has authority to make decisions over Crown Land?

Don't the MNR oversee Crown Land?

 

 

Health units have incredible powers these days. No doubt they can do this and more.

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2 minutes ago, Spiderman said:

Has anyone looked to confirm that a local PHU has authority to make decisions over Crown Land?

Don't the MNR oversee Crown Land?

 

 

Health units have incredible powers these days. No doubt they can do this and more.

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32 minutes ago, andreyboater said:

trails utilizing Crown Land in the health unit district to close:?

yes you are!:crazy:

Still not clear:banghead:

 

if you look up the folloowing website:  https://www.ontario.ca/page/recreational-activities-on-crown-land   you will find the following:                                           

Using snowmobiles

You can snowmobile on Crown land if:

  • the activity is not restricted (e.g. through planning or placement of a sign)
  • you follow any applicable legislation (e.g. Motorized Snow Vehicles Act)
  • you have a valid permit from the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (if one is required to use their trails)

 

     BUT under the order from the health unit, you cannot  ride on OFSC trails that are on crown land in the North Bay Parry Sound Health unit.

 

The above is my personal interpretation of what the rules are at the moment.

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"BUT under the order from the health unit, you cannot  ride on OFSC trails that are on crown land in the North Bay Parry Sound Health unit."

It saying "ride on OFSC trails that are on crown land"

So if I ride on a lake where is no OFSC trail but it still crown land , so it still under the order from the health unit am I right??? 

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https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h07

 

Might be a worthwhile read and perhaps a consult to determine if in fact a PHU has authority to exercise over outdoor Crown land use.

 

Like in every other thing in life, people with authority can say and do a lot things, that does not mean they are correct, have that ability, or that it's lawful.

We have a court system process for a reason.

 

Just something to consider. 

 

 

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"BUT under the order from the health unit, you cannot  ride on OFSC trails that are on crown land in the North Bay Parry Sound Health unit."

It saying "ride on OFSC trails that are on crown land"

So if I ride on a lake where is no OFSC trail but it still crown land , so it still under the order from the health unit am I right??? 

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1 hour ago, stoney said:

So that means the fine would in fact be $65 for trespassing on closed OFSC trails vs $880 as posted. 
Perhaps misunderstanding or a stretch to deter people from doing it as $65 is hardly a deterrent. 

 

I believe North Bay OPP released a statement saying they were already getting complaints about sleds on the trail. If caught it would be a $180 fine for Trespass and $880 for defying a the rules of the COVID -19 Act (or something like that). I’d have to go looking for it.

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21 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I believe North Bay OPP released a statement saying they were already getting complaints about sleds on the trail. If caught it would be a $180 fine for Trespass and $880 for defying a the rules of the COVID -19 Act (or something like that). I’d have to go looking for it.

Okay, so trespass is actually $180.00 and not $65.00......which would be better.

The covid fine could be interesting though and I can see it being fought in court.

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49 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I believe North Bay OPP released a statement saying they were already getting complaints about sleds on the trail. If caught it would be a $180 fine for Trespass and $880 for defying a the rules of the COVID -19 Act (or something like that). I’d have to go looking for it.

I wonder who's complaining?

 

:wtf:

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Just remember these people below that are deciding what goes on with snowmobiling in these areas

 Bottom line is until they close the airports I cant take anything from politicians mouths serious anymore!... Even Doug 

I wish he would come down on the airports like an 800lbs gorilla  

https://www.myhealthunit.ca/en/about-us/board-of-health-members.asp

 

2019-2022

Nipissing district

Central appointees

  • Dave Butti, citizen appointee

  • Nancy Jacko, citizen appointee (Board of Health Chairperson)

  • Stuart Kidd, citizen appointee 

  • Scott Robertson, municipal appointee
  • Tanya Vrebosch, municipal appointee 

Eastern appointee

  • Dean Backer, municipal appointee 

Western appointee

  • Dan Roveda, municipal appointee

Parry Sound district

North east appointee

  • Blair Flowers, municipal appointee

Western appointee

  • Don Brisbane, citizen appointee (Board of Health Vice-Chairperson)

South east appointee

  • Marianne Stickland, municipal appointee

Provincial appointees

  • Gary Guenther, provincial appointee
  • Mike Poeta, provincial appointee 

 

 

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1 hour ago, vooodooo said:

Saw something today on FB (I don't do FB , the toxic Shole it is) that made me almost lose my shuff

Some arse mole thinks we shouldn't be grooming if we aren't open, claims we are only doing it for OFSC cash!! Can't say I know this person, but I'm certain they don't pound a single stake.

Makes me really want to head out in an hour or so to groom, seeing how appreciated it is.

I]m still waiting for this magical ofsc cash, I wouldn't want to know how much volunteering etc costs me every year.

I hate people.

 

This has sure brought out the morons hasn't it. The trails just magically appear and everyone is making a fortune doing it. I've had some crappy seasons and it is what it is. If you're a golfer that pays a membership fee, does the club give you a rebate if the season has lousy weather or you don't get out golfing very much? Mind you I doubt these people our golfers.

 

There's one sledder initials of HA (I'm sure Nunz & Extreme have noticed) has started multiple threads complaining and complaining about the same thing over and over again... STFU

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2 minutes ago, Nickyskidoo said:

Just remember these people below that are deciding what goes on with snowmobiling in these areas

 Bottom line is until they close the airports I cant take anything from politicians mouths serious anymore!... Even Doug 

I wish he would come down on the airports like an 800lbs gorilla  

https://www.myhealthunit.ca/en/about-us/board-of-health-members.asp

 

2019-2022

Nipissing district

Central appointees

  • Dave Butti, citizen appointee

  • Nancy Jacko, citizen appointee (Board of Health Chairperson)

  • Stuart Kidd, citizen appointee 

  • Scott Robertson, municipal appointee
  • Tanya Vrebosch, municipal appointee 

Eastern appointee

  • Dean Backer, municipal appointee 

Western appointee

  • Dan Roveda, municipal appointee

Parry Sound district

North east appointee

  • Blair Flowers, municipal appointee

Western appointee

  • Don Brisbane, citizen appointee (Board of Health Vice-Chairperson)

South east appointee

  • Marianne Stickland, municipal appointee

Provincial appointees

  • Gary Guenther, provincial appointee
  • Mike Poeta, provincial appointee 

 

 

Do any of these people have any experience in public health?

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38 minutes ago, revrnd said:

Do any of these people have any experience in public health?

I would assume all these people are complete morons with no sense of reality... How do you stop skiing, skating, sledding and many more I don't care about. I would like to see them attack the feds and close the airports first then we can get serious about where the problems are. I live in Mississauga and have seen why Brampton is a hot zone and we have been included in Peel lock downs.    

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27 minutes ago, Nickyskidoo said:

I would assume all these people are complete morons with no sense of reality... How do you stop skiing, skating, sledding and many more I don't care about. I would like to see them attack the feds and close the airports first then we can get serious about where the problems are. I live in Mississauga and have seen why Brampton is a hot zone and we have been included in Peel lock downs.    

Brampton....hot zone because a dozen or more people ,(maybe related maybe not ) living in a house is typical ? Working in essential services like Amazon warehouses ?  Can't be, that would be racist thinking. .

.sarcasm off now. 

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5 minutes ago, Panther340 said:

Brampton....hot zone because a dozen or more people ,(maybe related maybe not ) living in a house is typical ? Working in essential services like Amazon warehouses ?  Can't be, that would be racist thinking. .

.sarcasm off now. 

Weddings all summer long at double the allowed limit in a walled tent north of Brampton 7 days a week for starters and know who they are from the really shitty music. I also drive by a this place and clearly see when they have gatherings with the cars parked as far as you can see... Don't know how truckers can even drive down that road during a gathering. Last one was the Friday right before Fords Peel lock down in early Dec 

   

Isl Centre.JPG

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18 hours ago, stoney said:

So there is provisions for that, with some rules or discretion in place. 
 

The cottage access discussion came up years ago when a few cottage owners on an OFSC trail wanted to go to their cottage in the winter on a road that was not maintained but a trail instead and I recall they were allowed with no pass plus they also used there side by side to gain winter access. 

Actually, any trail on a road maintained or not cannot be a prescribed ofsc trail and anyone can ride a sled on it, or their vehicle if they so desire. Unless that trail is on a restricted road, example a provincial park.

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58 minutes ago, zoso said:

Actually, any trail on a road maintained or not cannot be a prescribed ofsc trail and anyone can ride a sled on it, or their vehicle if they so desire. Unless that trail is on a restricted road, example a provincial park.

Makes sense and why these cottage owners would take their side by sides along the trail to their cottages.

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I don't agree with zoso regarding roads can't be designated as OFSC trails but Upon Further Review there is an exemption for the following and similarly if you have a Land Use Permit to occupy Crown Land.

 

7.

Landowners, their tenants and the immediate family members of landowners and of their tenants.

While travelling directly to or from the property owned by the landowner, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the property or is the only safe access route to the property.

Proof of ownership of or title to the property that is a government form, deed, registry or other document of land transfer, or in the case of tenancy, a copy of the lease for the property if one exists or a letter from the landowner prepared within the previous 240 days identifying the property by its municipal description and address and identifying the owner and the tenant by name, address and phone number.

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Just as FYI. OPP were patrolling Kearney today in 2 separate spots. One was a patrol sitting on the road where the D crosses and another with two with their sleds also sitting at a main junction. They are taking it seriously and will enforce the law. :dontgo:

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16 minutes ago, bbakernbay said:

I don't agree with zoso regarding roads can't be designated as OFSC trails but Upon Further Review there is an exemption for the following and similarly if you have a Land Use Permit to occupy Crown Land.

 

7.

Landowners, their tenants and the immediate family members of landowners and of their tenants.

While travelling directly to or from the property owned by the landowner, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the property or is the only safe access route to the property.

Proof of ownership of or title to the property that is a government form, deed, registry or other document of land transfer, or in the case of tenancy, a copy of the lease for the property if one exists or a letter from the landowner prepared within the previous 240 days identifying the property by its municipal description and address and identifying the owner and the tenant by name, address and phone number.

Like I said, the ofsc CANNOT have a prescribed trail on a public road. We researched this issue when we had a problem with vehicles running a groomed trail on a seasonal road. Found out we could not say a thin g about it. Placing prescribed trail signage on these types of trails is done so in error.

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5 hours ago, stoney said:

Okay, so trespass is actually $180.00 and not $65.00......which would be better.

The covid fine could be interesting though and I can see it being fought in

 

Here is a link to the Set Fines for each Act in Ontario. IIRC you would need to add the Victims Surcharge to the fine listed to get to your out of pocket cost. 

 

https://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do-i/set-fines/set-fines-i/

 

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48 minutes ago, zoso said:

Like I said, the ofsc CANNOT have a prescribed trail on a public road. We researched this issue when we had a problem with vehicles running a groomed trail on a seasonal road. Found out we could not say a thin g about it. Placing prescribed trail signage on these types of trails is done so in error.

That reasoning certainly explains why Clubs cannot do anything about other vehicles driving on a roadway which is also designated an OFSC trail.

 

What you stated doesn’t mean that a public road cannot be designated as an OFSC trail with the approval of the roadway authority or a Crown Land Use Permit.

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1 minute ago, bbakernbay said:

That reasoning certainly explains why Clubs cannot do anything about other vehicles driving on a roadway which is also designated an OFSC trail.

 

What you stated doesn’t mean that a public road cannot be designated as an OFSC trail with the approval of the roadway authority or a Crown Land Use Permit.

public roads are just that, public. It is not crown land, and you cannot get an lup on a road. A public roadway even if not maintained is free to access by all at any time. Our govenor at the time was furious, but it is what it is. The road in question at the time is one of the most popular loops in the province. A designated trail is not a prescribed trail, a prescribed trail gives exclusive use to the ofsc except the exemptions as outlined in the msva.  Public roads may not be taken over by anyone for exclusive use.  we have had trails on roads that were seasonal, and a cottage owner decided to plow the groomed trail that was on that road, guess what, the tgrail was relocated because we could not do a thing about it.

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