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Snowmobile Trail Closures and Problems


Turbo Doo

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9 hours ago, Turbo Doo said:

Seen this picture posted on Kap snow rovers Facebook page,  with no comment. :headbang:

Screenshot_20210102-205812_Samsung Internet.jpg

Looks like the pull start cord got stuck on a mighty start attempt and the machine was flung into the woods. Did it myself a few times until current sleds had electric start. And that was on a lumbering jackass of an Arctic Cat touring sled ....:smashpc: Ox probably has a few similar stories.

 

 

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That photo has been around for a few years now, still makes you wonder how it actually happened though.

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2 hours ago, slomo said:

Looks like the pull start cord got stuck on a mighty start attempt and the machine was flung into the woods. Did it myself a few times until current sleds had electric start. And that was on a lumbering jackass of an Arctic Cat touring sled ....:smashpc: Ox probably has a few similar stories.

 

 

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It can happen and it looks just like that, skis hooked opposite of each other around the tree. I had a misshap north of Latchford years ago on my t cat, didnt damage the hood but made a mess of the bracing behind the front bumper and knocked all three pipes out of the couplers on the engine. Not an easy task of getting it out, plus mine was a good 6 to 7 feet off the ground

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16 hours ago, Turbo Doo said:

I am sure Quebec has their issues also. To what extent,  :wtf:.....

Interesting question, look forward to seeing some informed replies.

My background is lengthy conversation with Temiscaming QC Voyageurs President.

 

They have a very strong Trail Patrol system with a schedule of day and night patrols.

They have full authority to prepare info for ticket, including mechanical issues, etc. and they deliver the paperwork to QPP for processing.

They can sell Permits in field at a substantial markup but fine is waived.

Their fines are significant to deter freeloaders.

QPP are very active on trail enforcement including no Permit.

 

QC beats ON on all counts.  Do they have a problem with Freeloaders compared to Ontario, hopefully someone with experience chimes in.

 

Ontario needs to stop babying everyone!

 

 

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8 minutes ago, bbakernbay said:

Interesting question, look forward to seeing some informed replies.

My background is lengthy conversation with Temiscaming QC Voyageurs President.

 

They have a very strong Trail Patrol system with a schedule of day and night patrols.

They have full authority to prepare info for ticket, including mechanical issues, etc. and they deliver the paperwork to QPP for processing.

They can sell Permits in field at a substantial markup but fine is waived.

Their fines are significant to deter freeloaders.

QPP are very active on trail enforcement including no Permit.

 

QC beats ON on all counts.  Do they have a problem with Freeloaders compared to Ontario, hopefully someone with experience chimes in.

 

Ontario needs to stop babying everyone!

 

 

I blame mto. They have taken over everything but decreased enforcement. Do you think it was police forces didn’t want wannabe trail patrol officers doing thier job, so those stop programs were ended? Now we just have police presence mostly in cars at various locations around the province. 

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17 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

I blame mto. They have taken over everything but decreased enforcement. Do you think it was police forces didn’t want wannabe trail patrol officers doing thier job, so those stop programs were ended? Now we just have police presence mostly in cars at various locations around the province. 

Quite the contrary I believe. The police didn't want anyone else doing their job so STOP was disbanded. As for the decimation of trail patrol, I don't know if the MTO had a part in pressuring the OFSC to gut it or if it was a board decision at the OFSC. Whichever it was, that decision was a very bad one for the future of this sport in Ontario. JMHO

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40 minutes ago, bbakernbay said:

Interesting question, look forward to seeing some informed replies.

My background is lengthy conversation with Temiscaming QC Voyageurs President.

 

They have a very strong Trail Patrol system with a schedule of day and night patrols.

They have full authority to prepare info for ticket, including mechanical issues, etc. and they deliver the paperwork to QPP for processing.

They can sell Permits in field at a substantial markup but fine is waived.

Their fines are significant to deter freeloaders.

QPP are very active on trail enforcement including no Permit.

 

QC beats ON on all counts.  Do they have a problem with Freeloaders compared to Ontario, hopefully someone with experience chimes in.

 

Ontario needs to stop babying everyone!

 

 

We were witness to the strong trail patrol one Friday afternoon on the railbed north of Tem. We were coming south on the last day of a trip and were stopped along the trail by a 40 something lady with 2 teenage boys. The boys quickly walked the sleds and made sure to check the dates on our 7 day permits. The lady was quite friendly and said it was their turn to do permit checks. They made the stop a good experience for us.

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Quebec enforcement is SO strong, it's a powerful deterrent even when you don't see a patrol for days.

I have been stopped at several excellent locations, where there is no option to turn and run. 

Staffed by as many as 6 officers. 

Also stopped by club officials at intersections and checked for all paperwork.  

Nobody is running annoying aftermarket exhaust.

I have seen sleds on tow trucks.

They take things seriously in Quebec. It's BIG business. For every $ the government invests, it's repaid several times over.

Here, MTO takes our $, tax is paid on insurance, and we get no viable enforcement. 

And we're prevented for self policing. 

Anybody who thinks this is sustainable is seriously lacking. 

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3 minutes ago, manotickmike said:

tax is paid on insurance,

Don't forget the fuel tax $ they get from sledders.

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8 minutes ago, manotickmike said:

Quebec enforcement is SO strong, it's a powerful deterrent even when you don't see a patrol for days.

I have been stopped at several excellent locations, where there is no option to turn and run. 

Staffed by as many as 6 officers. 

Also stopped by club officials at intersections and checked for all paperwork.  

Nobody is running annoying aftermarket exhaust.

I have seen sleds on tow trucks.

They take things seriously in Quebec. It's BIG business. For every $ the government invests, it's repaid several times over.

Here, MTO takes our $, tax is paid on insurance, and we get no viable enforcement. 

And we're prevented for self policing. 

Anybody who thinks this is sustainable is seriously lacking. 

A lot of federal $ in P.Q. also!

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1 hour ago, bbakernbay said:

Interesting question, look forward to seeing some informed replies.

My background is lengthy conversation with Temiscaming QC Voyageurs President.

 

They have a very strong Trail Patrol system with a schedule of day and night patrols.

They have full authority to prepare info for ticket, including mechanical issues, etc. and they deliver the paperwork to QPP for processing.

They can sell Permits in field at a substantial markup but fine is waived.

Their fines are significant to deter freeloaders.

QPP are very active on trail enforcement including no Permit.

 

QC beats ON on all counts.  Do they have a problem with Freeloaders compared to Ontario, hopefully someone with experience chimes in.

 

Ontario needs to stop babying everyone!

 

 

Yes Ontario needs a version of this. The Que gov't is very heavily involved with snowmobiling and we should have that also here in Ontario!

Perhaps the involvement of the MNRF is also due. We need more CO coverage from them and a CO has more authority than an OPP officer.

Maine has a large presence of COs on the trails.

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4 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Quite the contrary I believe. The police didn't want anyone else doing their job so STOP was disbanded. As for the decimation of trail patrol, I don't know if the MTO had a part in pressuring the OFSC to gut it or if it was a board decision at the OFSC. Whichever it was, that decision was a very bad one for the future of this sport in Ontario. JMHO

OPP I am sure wanted to add this to their insanely bloated budgets to download onto the public, use our money to buy nice fancy equipment and write some tickets to generate revenue. STOP was great the way it was and did what it needed to do.

 

 

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2 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Quite the contrary I believe. The police didn't want anyone else doing their job so STOP was disbanded. As for the decimation of trail patrol, I don't know if the MTO had a part in pressuring the OFSC to gut it or if it was a board decision at the OFSC. Whichever it was, that decision was a very bad one for the future of this sport in Ontario. JMHO

My take on it is that it was the OFSC, primarily one person in particular that drove the Trail Patrol system to where it is today... toothless. The phrase I heard over and over was Trail Ambassador. All the Trail Patrol I have known have included ambassador as part of it going way back. I and others have stopped when they have found people on the side of the trail just to make sure every one was okay and they weren't either lost or experiencing a break down, handed out countless trail maps, loaned tools / booster cables and / or helped with a breakdown or a boost, provided directions to the nearest gas, lunch or a destination. On a number of occasions I have told those I have been riding with to continue on and I would see them later to lead others to the closest gas as it was questionable if they would make it. If I found someone without a trail permit I would issue a notice of trespass and give them an email address. If they could provide proof of getting a trail permit in the next 10 days the notice was torn up. Never had one that didn't get torn up.

 

36 minutes ago, RAMSOMAIR said:

Well this is at least a start that we are talking about it and not just throwing our hands up and saying we are done!

bbakernbay is there more discussions that can be made by the clubs with the govt?

We have been talking about it for a long time now and things continue to move in the wrong direction.

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3 hours ago, Wildman said:

It can happen and it looks just like that, skis hooked opposite of each other around the tree. I had a misshap north of Latchford years ago on my t cat, didnt damage the hood but made a mess of the bracing behind the front bumper and knocked all three pipes out of the couplers on the engine. Not an easy task of getting it out, plus mine was a good 6 to 7 feet off the ground

 

Would that have been about the time you earned the name "Wildman" ? Lol 

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23 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

My take on it is that it was the OFSC, primarily one person in particular that drove the Trail Patrol system to where it is today... toothless. The phrase I heard over and over was Trail Ambassador. All the Trail Patrol I have known have included ambassador as part of it going way back. I and others have stopped when they have found people on the side of the trail just to make sure every one was okay and they weren't either lost or experiencing a break down, handed out countless trail maps, loaned tools / booster cables and / or helped with a breakdown or a boost, provided directions to the nearest gas, lunch or a destination. On a number of occasions I have told those I have been riding with to continue on and I would see them later to lead others to the closest gas as it was questionable if they would make it. If I found someone without a trail permit I would issue a notice of trespass and give them an email address. If they could provide proof of getting a trail permit in the next 10 days the notice was torn up. Never had one that didn't get torn up.

 

We have been talking about it for a long time now and things continue to move in the wrong direction.

Absolutely the wrong direction and unfortunately the pandemic crisis will negate any government action for the for-seeable future as MSVA amendments are likely near the bottom of a big pile of legislative amendments.

 

As an aside some pandemic emergency rules have fast tracked things not previously done so quickly. Condo rule changes allowed video AGMs.  Our condo passed a significant No Smoking in the building or property with a simple majority vote effective in 30 days. 

 

I thought the OFSC had some lobbying power but it certainly appears not as virtually nothing has changed in last 10 years to assist this recreational and tourism sport/business.

 

I sound negative but when the problems are staring you in the face for year after year and nothing is done then that is hugely disappointing failure on both parties involved.

 

Oh I forgot we did get rid of the Family Day Free Ride which came from the voting membership at the AGM. Small win but only a blip of the real problem

 

Some great examples above from Quebec as I pointed out an example of how Temiscaming QC Club operates in scheduling Trail Patrol enforcement.

 

A crackdown is needed for a year or two to get freeloaders off the OFSC trails.

 

I just cannot get over some people with $15-20,000 sleds, trailers, etc. refusing to buy a $300 permit.

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Taxation without representation. 

Ask your local OPP Patrol how many are out on sleds in your district. 

If you can find one.

Report back.

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