thetorches Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 55 minutes ago, Muskoka Bill said: I have seen in other area's then Muskoka, Trail Wardens (orange vests) which patrol the trails, they were stopping sleds and looking to see if you have a trail pass, back in those days he could probably have sold you a pass there on the spot, they could do nothing now a days other then lecture. In Quebec a trail pass is $650 if stopped and bought on trail. Should do that here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSOMAIR Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 BINGO! Problem is not enough enforcement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Farmer Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 I always thought technology can save this sport. Must be Some way to start tracking snowmobiles and where they ride and when. Then it wouldn’t take long to correct this trespassing and no respect issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vooodooo Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 18 hours ago, Baylaker said: I volunteer my time, sometimes my personal equipment and money, my buddies do as well and I’m sure many of you on this forum do as well...what can we all do to try and limit the amount of trespassing? Are we all just going to sit back and let the sport die off because of these “entitled” or whatever you would like to call them, ruin our sport that all the volunteers work so hard for. I know better & more enforcement would help. Huge fines, sled impounding etc. But let’s not count on that. how do we do it without enforcement? Was out earlier in the week packing, no drag. Although we have had a bunch of snow, we have had plenty of rain and very little cold. Wet spots are not going to be fixed by packing or grooming...its still running water. Ran across 6 sleds on closed trails, 3 without permits. Had one guy try to turn around 'cause he wasn't getting past the blade and no way I could move over. Current 800 Poo 144 800. He buried his belt into the driven and wasn't able to move. He thought his clutch was fooked,, obvious noob lol. Seeing no option, I got him to apply the throttle while I lifted the back end up so he could spin the track and reset the belt on the clutches. I received a fully soaked set of pants and boots, knew that's gonna happen... but he got to carry on, back from where he came from. He was one of 3 that had a permit...but still he's riding on closed trails. How much of a verbal lashing should I do at that point, cause that's the only tool we have. The OPP does not have the spare officers (money the province didn't have before and certainly does not have now). Bring back the STOP program. I'd be in for that. I've already been vetted, sworn and trained for military service. Shouldn't be a big deal to get people like me up to speed on the trespass to property act, and our ability to enforce it. That's all we need. No force, just the ability to write tickets, using vast amounts of discretion. I'm a very reasonable guy. Been that kid that knew he was doing wrong, but still did it...didn't expect the hammer to come down. If someone gets all uppity or belligerent, they leave while we document the interaction, from that the accused gets their day in court. Some will say that this can only be done with armed, law enforcement like the OPP. I disagree. Sometimes the pen, and the discussion is mightier than the sword. Talk to your MPP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tireless Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 I was at my place in Midland this week and there are lots of sleds on the closed trails. Most of them are New or newer I guess they just can't wait. This hole thread is like beating a dead fish.There is no enforcement and they don't read these threads anyways. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 18 hours ago, thetorches said: In Quebec a trail pass is $650 if stopped and bought on trail. Should do that here. Absolutely, this is what is needed. Firstly, substantial deterrent like Quebec requiring MSVA amendment. Secondly, another amendment to provide that the fine is enforced against the sled owner, just like ETR 407, thereby eliminating need to identify operator in court. Thirdly, empower properly trained Trail Patrol to be able to fill in the Infraction Notice and deliver to nearest OPP for verification and further processing just like they do in Quebec. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSOMAIR Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 We need to follow many of the Quebec trail regimes. They have a very structured system and I think, for the most part, it works! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) Yes we indeed need more enforcement. I was checking permits in Port Severn and a group of late teen early 20's came up. They all had permits on the sleds except one of them... he said it was in his pocket and it was too cold to stick it on the sled. I insisted it wasn't especially since it was above freezing and the option was a notice of trespass. He very reluctantly put it on the windshield. One of his buddies chimed in... Steve's going to be some pissed when you can't give him his trail permit back. Edited January 2, 2021 by 02Sled 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskoka1 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, RAMSOMAIR said: We need to follow many of the Quebec trail regimes. They have a very structured system and I think, for the most part, it works! The Quebec system works very well @ $300+ for a permit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, Muskoka1 said: The Quebec system works very well @ $300+ for a permit! Yes, it is more, plus they no doubt also get more grant money from the province (and likely the Fed's too...), but I really do not think it is the money that makes it better, they have better seasons and it is a life style there with a greater amount of respect in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 hours ago, bbakernbay said: Absolutely, this is what is needed. Firstly, substantial deterrent like Quebec requiring MSVA amendment. Secondly, another amendment to provide that the fine is enforced against the sled owner, just like ETR 407, thereby eliminating need to identify operator in court. Thirdly, empower properly trained Trail Patrol to be able to fill in the Infraction Notice and deliver to nearest OPP for verification and further processing just like they do in Quebec. Agree...X2.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, stoney said: Yes, it is more, plus they no doubt also get more grant money from the province (and likely the Fed's too...), but I really do not think it is the money that makes it better, they have better seasons and it is a life style there with a greater amount of respect in general. Agreed also. I think raising the permit price here, in hopes of deterring the entitled, will only make them more determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, stoney said: Yes, it is more, plus they no doubt also get more grant money from the province (and likely the Fed's too...), but I really do not think it is the money that makes it better, they have better seasons and it is a life style there with a greater amount of respect in general. It also includes liability insurance which I believe I read previously was about $60.00 of the permit value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 I am sure Quebec has their issues also. To what extent, ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 Wondering around faceplant, posts like this sure help the cause... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 I have no first hand experience with this, but I hear the penalties for those not willing to follow the rules are dealt with more harshly: no permit, pay double upon being caught illegal exhaust, sled is towed (this is something that I have read - not sure how true it is) Some gas merchants also check for permit before providing gas QC also does tourism so much better - has anyone ever called them to request info/literature, the response is really good I thought as an out of province person, you could receive $40.00 back on the insurance - I think there was a thread or that was mentioned here somewhere. QC does have their issues, I recall when we rode to Tremblant, there were no trails leading anywhere near it, they did not want sled there, so I assume there must have been some bad situations in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, Turbo Doo said: Wondering around faceplant, posts like this sure help the cause... Another point, there are ATV trails in QC....in some locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 If anyone has rode up Devils mountain, you will see how bad the trails there can be too...... Thankfully they have some a nice lady living up top waiting to serve you some drinks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, stoney said: If anyone has rode up Devils mountain, you will see how bad the trails there can be too...... Thankfully they have some a nice lady living up top waiting to serve you some drinks Hahahah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, stoney said: Yes, it is more, plus they no doubt also get more grant money from the province (and likely the Fed's too...), but I really do not think it is the money that makes it better, they have better seasons and it is a life style there with a greater amount of respect in general. One of the factors is the geographic aspect. Take a look at a map of Canada and the latitude of Toronto compared to the latitude of Montreal. They are significantly farther north. You can snowmobile essentially just on the outskirts of Montreal. I have flown into Montreal and seen as we are coming into land snowmobiles running the ice on parts of the St. Lawrence as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: It also includes liability insurance which I believe I read previously was about $60.00 of the permit value. Their laws regarding coverage for vehicle and snowmobile insurance liability limits are vastly different than Ontario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Man Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Even just an enforcement blitz once in awhile would do it. Word gets out and the problem would be a lot smaller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Poo Man said: Even just an enforcement blitz once in awhile would do it. Word gets out and the problem would be a lot smaller. I have heard of an ATV club that has had paid duty OPP out on the ATV trails to enforce permits etc. The cost of the paid OPP was more than offset by the sudden increase in permit revenue. I bet that if the OPP were paid to be in a few of the real trouble spots, zero tolerance for permits, cans, off trail, license, registration and insurance, the revenue in permits would more than pay for their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSOMAIR Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, 02Sled said: I have heard of an ATV club that has had paid duty OPP out on the ATV trails to enforce permits etc. The cost of the paid OPP was more than offset by the sudden increase in permit revenue. I bet that if the OPP were paid to be in a few of the real trouble spots, zero tolerance for permits, cans, off trail, license, registration and insurance, the revenue in permits would more than pay for their time. BINGO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 So, more education and enforcement is needed then?? Seems to be a consensus on that?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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