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Pigeon Lake - Huge Hole


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12 minutes ago, yamadan700 said:

Methinks that the ice formed and then they dropped the water level in the Trent system before it had a chance to thicken up, hence the gap between the water and ice. Guess the rest of the lake had a better chance to build thicker ice than that spot.

Good reasoning..... but it's just that one spot (that I can see). About 20 feet away the ice is thicker. :wtf:

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Possibly when the water level was up at the level of the ice, there was more current in that area than 20 feet away. 

With the water level down would the ice melt from within and from the hole first on sunny  & warmer days?

Edited by PISTON LAKE CRUISER
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How is that physically possible?

 

Maybe near shore as one end supported by the shoreline, and the other "end" floating ....

 

Other than that?

Edited by Ox
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2 hours ago, yamadan700 said:

Methinks that the ice formed and then they dropped the water level in the Trent system before it had a chance to thicken up, hence the gap between the water and ice. Guess the rest of the lake had a better chance to build thicker ice than that spot.

My brother is a big time ice fisherman. Says the same as you. Ice freezes and water level is lowered.

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These last few entries are an eye opener for me .... I didn't have the experience as to why the ice was above the water, now I know. These are logical ideas as to why this occured and why the ice was so thin.

Thanks for the heads up guys .... all really good explanations. Now when I go out on the ice, I'm a bit more knowledgeable.

 

Cheers.

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Well don't take a run down the Magpie armed with that "knowledge"...

 

MagpieRiverMushroomRev.jpg

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yes, in places the magpie will have 3 feet of ice, a 3-5 FOOT air gap, then the water. right now the water level has dropped over 5 feet from our first december rides down the magpie. the river changes almost daily between, feb 10th through ice out. river level may drop over 10 feet overall, from where it froze. if you dont know, DONT GO! Ski

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1 hour ago, Ox said:

How is that physically possible?

 

Maybe near shore as one end supported by the shoreline, and the other "end" floating ....

 

Other than that?

The ice becomes somewhat like a sheet of plexiglass when it gets thick enough.  The Trent Severn waterway drops the water level to allow them to store more spring water and prevent some flooding.  The ice will support weight to a certain point and as more weight is added the ice will sag and eventually break.

I ran into a large pool of water on Lake of Bays one rainy morning after an unusual night of rain years ago. The 88 Phazar went down and I started swimming. My buddy stopped at the side of the pool and yelled at me to stand up. I put my feet down and there was ice under me. Only the top tip of the windshield on the Phazar was above the water. Scared the SH_T out of me as the lake is well over 100 feet deep at that point. Turns out that they had dropped the water level and the rain had run to the lowest point near the centre of the lake and the ice had sagged from the weight of the rain water creating the big pond.

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If you're crossing the bridge in Buckhorn, take a look to the west. The water level in Upper Buckhorn(same water level as Pigeon) is down at least a couple of feet from the fall level. 

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16 hours ago, skidooboy said:

yes, in places the magpie will have 3 feet of ice, a 3-5 FOOT air gap, then the water. right now the water level has dropped over 5 feet from our first december rides down the magpie. the river changes almost daily between, feb 10th through ice out. river level may drop over 10 feet overall, from where it froze. if you dont know, DONT GO! Ski

 

As ski knows, the "mushrooms" can jump up out of the river bottom when a tree stump breaks through as the ice drops.  The thick ice left on top of the stump then gets snow covered and it really does look like a mushroom.  Not good to go fast at night on the Magpie later in the season if you don't know.  That is why the stakes run in a way that follows the old river rather than where the bottom creates hills and valleys and crazy things happen with the ice.

 

I have crawled up and looked down into an opening where the very thick ice broke open at the top of what looked like a nice flowing hill on the ice.  It was horrifying to see a 4 meter drop to a wet sandy looking bottom with just a bit of water standing.  If you drove into it, you would be trapped down inside the inverted two foot thick ice walls, that is if you survived the crash.  Only fellow riders watching could ever figure it out and go for help.

 

Follow the stakes and go slow until you know! 

 

 

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1998 I ran that alone at dusk, and I kept slowing down, and slowing down, and slowing down as I just couldn't focus my eyes.

It all just seemed like a blur...

 

THEN I understood!

 

I was coming up on a "sand bar" where the ice had made an 8-10' tall ramp up. 

I went on up and then had to navigate the mine field above through the broken ice and the stumps.

 

Came down the other side, and on to Wawa and loaded up.

 

Had someone been rolling a good clip up through there - i'd'a been a Toughy.

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On 2/17/2020 at 1:35 PM, Yamaha Fan said:

Last year I rode Lakes mostly  .... it was a good year.  02sled even took a group to Giant Tomb Island. 

Even if a club stakes a Lake and you keep to the Staked line...  you can't hold the club responsible it you break through or slam into a pressure crack. The OFSC is clear even on land trails.. " use at your own risk ".

Before I became a Pilot I got a degree in Surveying from North East London Polytechnic and Riparian Law states you cannot own water. You can own the bed of a Lake or stream as long as it's not navigable.  ( I'm brushing over the law here). Since water exists in 3 states .. I.e: as a solid (ice), vapor and liquid, then staking ice on a lake means nothing (IMO). It's like painting X's on water. 

So to all you Lake Riders out there..... I say ride on :grin: we cannot live forever. 

Cheers. 

 

:soapbox:

 

Yes we cannot live forever, but we sure fight to stay alive.  At least I do :)

Sorry, my point was more about how precarious things can be.  I would never want to end up in that hole and sincere thanks for letting everyone know. 

But considering your diatribe, I understand that you're educated, but doesn't mean you know shite about anything.  Next time you decided to yell at someone, pls use all CAPS. Then my supid a$$ can understand you better.

 

 

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The good thing about the Pigeon/Buckhorn/Chemong lake system is the average depth is probably around 10 feet and they only let 2-3 feet out. The deep areas in the main bodies are approx 20' except up near the top of Pigeon towards the Bald Lakes. The area where the hole is, I would think is about 6-8 feet deep, if that. Doubt it would ever be as nasty as the "Magpie" nightmare scene you described..lol..

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3 hours ago, Puggz said:

:soapbox:

 

Yes we cannot live forever, but we sure fight to stay alive.  At least I do :)

Sorry, my point was more about how precarious things can be.  I would never want to end up in that hole and sincere thanks for letting everyone know. 

But considering your diatribe, I understand that you're educated, but doesn't mean you know shite about anything.  Next time you decided to yell at someone, pls use all CAPS. Then my supid a$$ can understand you better.

 

 

Didn't realise you are such an ignoramous, I wasn;t even quoting you but making a general post about stakes on ice. If you are offended it shows your state of mind and personality. Grow some shoulders and be a man. Really don't need your kind on this site.

 

 

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and your sensitivity shows yours.  Maybe you should drink some more cranberry juice and pop a couple of advil. :sarcasm_on-1:

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Maybe I can get this post back to the topic of at least Pigeon Lake. How are you guys accessing Buckhorn lake avoiding Gannons Narrows? and once you go around the dam on pigeon - where do you jump onto Sturgeon Lake? 

I am familiar with the lake and the places with current as we are on the North end of Pigeon.

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2 hours ago, mvance said:

Maybe I can get this post back to the topic of at least Pigeon Lake. How are you guys accessing Buckhorn lake avoiding Gannons Narrows? and once you go around the dam on pigeon - where do you jump onto Sturgeon Lake? 

I am familiar with the lake and the places with current as we are on the North end of Pigeon.

Grizzlygriff is the best person to advise you on this.... if he responds and you guys are planning a ride to show you around I'll be up for it.

I just follow the tracks as they go around the lake and my instinct.

I just came off the Lake and the wind was brutal ... lots of blowing snow and snow moguls. No one else on the lake.

 

Here is a link you can look at when myself, GrizzlyGriff, Barberch and Yamadan700 did the ride last winter.

Barberch has a nice movie of the route we took to Buckhorn and back thru Bobcaygeon.

Edited by Yamaha Fan
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There is a Bay on the East side of Pigeon Lake immediately south of Gannons Narrows. Follow the tracks over the little causeway, stay near shore and go up the boat ramp at the Marina. Follow Rd to   the highway. Cross highway and follow ditch up to Buckhorn Lake. Through a little Park and follow the shore and tracks  over to Harrington Narrows and into Chemong. 

Re the dam. Once you go under the second bridge in Little Bob Chanel turn sharp left along the side of the bridge and exit near the shore. You need to run hi way 24  to Birch Point Marina as it is too thin to travel Sturgeon where it meets Little Bob

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Thanks Grizzly Griff- I know the bay you mean prior to the Narrows. We did get off there once and probably just did not follow the road far enough. Same thing with Sturgeon lake we did not follow the road far enough to the marina. Thanks for the reply! We are riding from the North end of Pigeon starting tomorrow morning - heading to Whitney for Friday. If you see three guys - Sidewinder, 1200 Skooby doo and an 1100 cat turbo - say Hi!  

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Have a great trip. Whitney and back?

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Yes, that is the plan for Friday and Bancroft way on Saturday!

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