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Missing Link goes yellow tomorrow


manotickmike

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Thanks Mike. Interested to see tomorrow if that is some, most or all the ML trails. Looking for some where to go south of 17 for a couple of days next week.

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LOL...  There isn't anything in Ottawa to "weather the storm" from.  Barely a few accumulated inches of snow in the fields I'm afraid..and this weekend is going to be mostly rain and freezing rain..I bet we are down to bare grass after this... 

 

Mattawa forecast looks great though!  No rain and I think another 20+cms of snow!  Deep River not too bad either..  still 10+mm of rain, but followed by snow afterwards..  so fingers crossed that holds out or gets even better (i.e. rainfall ends up snowfall) for them!

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5 hours ago, paulslund said:

LOL...  There isn't anything in Ottawa to "weather the storm" from.  Barely a few accumulated inches of snow in the fields I'm afraid..and this weekend is going to be mostly rain and freezing rain..I bet we are down to bare grass after this... 

 

Mattawa forecast looks great though!  No rain and I think another 20+cms of snow!  Deep River not too bad either..  still 10+mm of rain, but followed by snow afterwards..  so fingers crossed that holds out or gets even better (i.e. rainfall ends up snowfall) for them!

My post was referring to trails down towards Deep River that are currently open as limited!..:poke2:..I know Ottawa has not much snow.

Edited by TURBO DOO
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16 hours ago, TURBO DOO said:

My post was referring to trails down towards Deep River that are currently open as limited!..:poke2:..I know Ottawa has not much snow.

I know...  I just wanted to complain!  :D

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4 hours ago, Strong Farmer said:

Time to get red Ferrari out of garage and see how many gold diggers I can pick up tomorrow.  So you getting another car this spring? 

Is that you Magnum? Should put it in as your avatar.

Screenshot_2020-01-10-17-34-50.png

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Why are there some *ahem" missing links in the Missing Link trails (heh heh..see what I did there?  :-)  )

 

These red areas are on both sides of the Parking lot...  Anyone been up there recently?

 

image.png.366b0eed0a60b1981eb855f35775742d.png

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I'm familiar with those spots, Paul, and we ran worse than that road x-ing a few times that day we met out by Limoges. 

The trail along 17 is likely just not ready. Too close to the highway. 

Hoping to be up that way for the Poker Run this weekend. 

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10 hours ago, manotickmike said:

I'm familiar with those spots, Paul, and we ran worse than that road x-ing a few times that day we met out by Limoges. 

The trail along 17 is likely just not ready. Too close to the highway. 

Hoping to be up that way for the Poker Run this weekend. 

Did you go up this past weekend?  If they are still red this coming weekend I'd be curious as to the condition of those sections...  Thanks!

 

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20 minutes ago, FROSTYNUTZ said:

Would it not make more sense to keep them at yellow ? Doesn,t red indicate that we are NOT suppose to be on those trails, ever ?  

Mixed messaging isn't it.  My guess is the MTO won't renew the crossing agreement.  Club can't open those sections until they get it.  9 out of 10 riders are going riding anyways I'm sure.  

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19 minutes ago, signfan said:

Mixed messaging isn't it.  My guess is the MTO won't renew the crossing agreement.  Club can't open those sections until they get it.  9 out of 10 riders are going riding anyways I'm sure.  

I may be off base here but I'm thinking there would be one agreement with the MTO for all roads they control in the province. If that was the case wouldn't all Districts be marking highway crossings red? Wouldn't those sections at highway crossings being red on the ITG mean that any trail that crosses an MTO controlled highway is unavailable? It makes no sense since the OFSC is in bed with the MTO. 

I may be wrong but I think this is just a misguided individuals "good idea".

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Nope.  Every club has it's own agreement (same one from the mto in theory).  In recent years it's went to a district agreement between the district and mto, but still seperate for every area.  The MTO signs off on every crossing and they have a spec you have to meet for sightlines, etc.  Each district deals with their local MTO field office.  Who knows what's going on here.  I'm only speculating.

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OhMyGawd!!!   So the MTO, which is Provicial Wide, is negotiating, separately, with how many individual Snomobile Clubs??  What a waste of time and Volunteer hours.  The MTO is a provincial wide organization. Wouldn’t it make sense that “our” Provincial Wide OFSC organization negotiate with them?   Or we they deflect and offer the BS “we believe that local members have the relationship” cop out?   

So.....members on here, from time to time, ask why Quebec seems to “ get it “.   Well, it starts at the top.  The Provincial Government is engaged and committed. They get various Minstries in a room and don’t ask what are the problems, they say let’s talk about how we can make it happen. Because it means XXBillions dollars in Revenue !  They get the Quebec version of the MOE and the MNR and the MTO and the Ministry of Justice and semi public/government reliant corporations like Quebec Hydro and the Pipelines over whom they have the power of making or breaking their financial year into a room.   The question posed by Senior Government over these Ministries and Utilities dependent on the Government for their financial success is “ how can we all work together to make snowmobiling a success”. And they all “know” it is less a question than it is a directive.  Heck, Joncas burned down the year after we were there and the next year there was a new trail through Reserve Verendrye to another lodge.  I am sure more than one beaver was dislocated but neither the MOE nor the MNR spent gazillion dollars studying the potential new trail nor 12 years deciding whether to approve it.  Going through La Touque you will notice that traffic lights have the usual red, orange, green illumination. They also have a fourth light illuminating a snowmobile and letting sledders know it is now safe to cross the road.  How long would it take the Ontario MTO to decide whether not to even commission a study, hire a consultant, and wait for a report. The courts, in Quebec, have Capped the amount of liability that can be claimed on trails. Capped. Full stop. No multi million dollar shotgun suits naming 12 defendants. Go ahead, name whoever you want, the amount payable is not going over $50,000.  (I may be out of date, so say 100). What amount of our trail permit would be reduced if liability was Capped. Who leaned on the Quebec Justice Department?  

The price of a Quebec permit is WELL above ours but, because of a number of factors, a significant amount more than us is ending up on the trails. 

Thats how it works. And, unlike Ontario, there is lots of money sharing. Between clubs and accommodations and gas stations and whatever. Have the OFSC rules changed or am I stil not allowed to give a Land Owner a free permit for the use of his land ??  Grease the wheels. 

The Ontario Government needs to “get with the program” but, at the risk of having insults hurled, I would say that the OFSC needs to step up. 

If they have, and if they are, then they need to tell the unwashed masses that they are doing something.  Where’s the PR? 

Quebec is not perfect. By a long shot. But the relationships they have with the government and with all the tourist dependent organizations are better, by a long shot, than Ontario.  

Ontario can do the same. And I have every hope that between the Provincial Government and the OFSC it can mirror, or even Better, Quebec !! 

Get with it guys !

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On 1/14/2020 at 5:57 PM, signfan said:

Nope.  Every club has it's own agreement (same one from the mto in theory).  In recent years it's went to a district agreement between the district and mto, but still seperate for every area.  The MTO signs off on every crossing and they have a spec you have to meet for sightlines, etc.  Each district deals with their local MTO field office.  Who knows what's going on here.  I'm only speculating.

D10 has one agreement and a great working relationship with the MTO 

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11 minutes ago, SlowTouringGuy said:

OhMyGawd!!!   So the MTO, which is Provicial Wide, is negotiating, separately, with how many individual Snomobile Clubs??  What a waste of time and Volunteer hours.  The MTO is a provincial wide organization. Wouldn’t it make sense that “our” Provincial Wide OFSC organization negotiate with them?   Or we they deflect and offer the BS “we believe that local members have the relationship” cop out?   

So.....members on here, from time to time, ask why Quebec seems to “ get it “.   Well, it starts at the top.  The Provincial Government is engaged and committed. They get various Minstries in a room and don’t ask what are the problems, they say let’s talk about how we can make it happen. Because it means XXBillions dollars in Revenue !  They get the Quebec version of the MOE and the MNR and the MTO and the Ministry of Justice and semi public/government reliant corporations like Quebec Hydro and the Pipelines over whom they have the power of making or breaking their financial year into a room.   The question posed by Senior Government over these Ministries and Utilities dependent on the Government for their financial success is “ how can we all work together to make snowmobiling a success”. And they all “know” it is less a question than it is a directive.  Heck, Joncas burned down the year after we were there and the next year there was a new trail through Reserve Verendrye to another lodge.  I am sure more than one beaver was dislocated but neither the MOE nor the MNR spent gazillion dollars studying the potential new trail nor 12 years deciding whether to approve it.  Going through La Touque you will notice that traffic lights have the usual red, orange, green illumination. They also have a fourth light illuminating a snowmobile and letting sledders know it is now safe to cross the road.  How long would it take the Ontario MTO to decide whether not to even commission a study, hire a consultant, and wait for a report. The courts, in Quebec, have Capped the amount of liability that can be claimed on trails. Capped. Full stop. No multi million dollar shotgun suits naming 12 defendants. Go ahead, name whoever you want, the amount payable is not going over $50,000.  (I may be out of date, so say 100). What amount of our trail permit would be reduced if liability was Capped. Who leaned on the Quebec Justice Department?  

The price of a Quebec permit is WELL above ours but, because of a number of factors, a significant amount more than us is ending up on the trails. 

Thats how it works. And, unlike Ontario, there is lots of money sharing. Between clubs and accommodations and gas stations and whatever. Have the OFSC rules changed or am I stil not allowed to give a Land Owner a free permit for the use of his land ??  Grease the wheels. 

The Ontario Government needs to “get with the program” but, at the risk of having insults hurled, I would say that the OFSC needs to step up. 

If they have, and if they are, then they need to tell the unwashed masses that they are doing something.  Where’s the PR? 

Quebec is not perfect. By a long shot. But the relationships they have with the government and with all the tourist dependent organizations are better, by a long shot, than Ontario.  

Ontario can do the same. And I have every hope that between the Provincial Government and the OFSC it can mirror, or even Better, Quebec !! 

Get with it guys !

STG

 

What you seem to be suggesting in your first paragraph is simply not reasonable.  This is a relatively straightforward issue that is properly dealt with between the OFSC Club or District Trails Coordinator and their local MTO office, not on a centralized basis.  Same thing for trail crossings of municipal highways.  In most instances it is not a difficult matter to deal with.

 

Each and every road crossing can have many variables such as sight lines, grades, speed limits, etc. and can best be done locally in an expedited basis.

 

What you seem to be suggesting is that the Province/MTO should give blanket approval to every OFSC trail crossing of a MTO highway because of the importance of snowmobiling in Ontario.

 

What is happening in the area referred to needs to be clarified by the respective Club or District so we can better understand what is happening as the Red Closed sections are indeed baffling.

 

Does the Province of Ontario need to do better for the multi million dollar snowmobiling tourism business and recreation.  Absolutely, we have seen a continuous diminishing support for snowmobiling in many ways, volunteer liability, liability lawsuits, minimal trail funding, government bureaucracy and staff downsizing and list goes on.

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30 minutes ago, SlowTouringGuy said:

OhMyGawd!!!   So the MTO, which is Provicial Wide, is negotiating, separately, with how many individual Snomobile Clubs??  What a waste of time and Volunteer hours.  The MTO is a provincial wide organization. Wouldn’t it make sense that “our” Provincial Wide OFSC organization negotiate with them?   Or we they deflect and offer the BS “we believe that local members have the relationship” cop out?   

So.....members on here, from time to time, ask why Quebec seems to “ get it “.   Well, it starts at the top.  The Provincial Government is engaged and committed. They get various Minstries in a room and don’t ask what are the problems, they say let’s talk about how we can make it happen. Because it means XXBillions dollars in Revenue !  They get the Quebec version of the MOE and the MNR and the MTO and the Ministry of Justice and semi public/government reliant corporations like Quebec Hydro and the Pipelines over whom they have the power of making or breaking their financial year into a room.   The question posed by Senior Government over these Ministries and Utilities dependent on the Government for their financial success is “ how can we all work together to make snowmobiling a success”. And they all “know” it is less a question than it is a directive.  Heck, Joncas burned down the year after we were there and the next year there was a new trail through Reserve Verendrye to another lodge.  I am sure more than one beaver was dislocated but neither the MOE nor the MNR spent gazillion dollars studying the potential new trail nor 12 years deciding whether to approve it.  Going through La Touque you will notice that traffic lights have the usual red, orange, green illumination. They also have a fourth light illuminating a snowmobile and letting sledders know it is now safe to cross the road.  How long would it take the Ontario MTO to decide whether not to even commission a study, hire a consultant, and wait for a report. The courts, in Quebec, have Capped the amount of liability that can be claimed on trails. Capped. Full stop. No multi million dollar shotgun suits naming 12 defendants. Go ahead, name whoever you want, the amount payable is not going over $50,000.  (I may be out of date, so say 100). What amount of our trail permit would be reduced if liability was Capped. Who leaned on the Quebec Justice Department?  

The price of a Quebec permit is WELL above ours but, because of a number of factors, a significant amount more than us is ending up on the trails. 

Thats how it works. And, unlike Ontario, there is lots of money sharing. Between clubs and accommodations and gas stations and whatever. Have the OFSC rules changed or am I stil not allowed to give a Land Owner a free permit for the use of his land ??  Grease the wheels. 

The Ontario Government needs to “get with the program” but, at the risk of having insults hurled, I would say that the OFSC needs to step up. 

If they have, and if they are, then they need to tell the unwashed masses that they are doing something.  Where’s the PR? 

Quebec is not perfect. By a long shot. But the relationships they have with the government and with all the tourist dependent organizations are better, by a long shot, than Ontario.  

Ontario can do the same. And I have every hope that between the Provincial Government and the OFSC it can mirror, or even Better, Quebec !! 

Get with it guys !

Absofrickenloutley STG, well said. The Ontario govt needs to get their crap together and put their foot down and model the QC program for starters. 

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24 minutes ago, bbakernbay said:

STG

 

What you seem to be suggesting in your first paragraph is simply not reasonable.  This is a relatively straightforward issue that is properly dealt with between the OFSC Club or District Trails Coordinator and their local MTO office, not on a centralized basis.  Same thing for trail crossings of municipal highways.  In most instances it is not a difficult matter to deal with.

 

Each and every road crossing can have many variables such as sight lines, grades, speed limits, etc. and can best be done locally in an expedited basis.

 

What you seem to be suggesting is that the Province/MTO should give blanket approval to every OFSC trail crossing of a MTO highway because of the importance of snowmobiling in Ontario.

 

What is happening in the area referred to needs to be clarified by the respective Club or District so we can better understand what is happening as the Red Closed sections are indeed baffling.

 

Does the Province of Ontario need to do better for the multi million dollar snowmobiling tourism business and recreation.  Absolutely, we have seen a continuous diminishing support for snowmobiling in many ways, volunteer liability, liability lawsuits, minimal trail funding, government bureaucracy and staff downsizing and list goes on.

Brian, it’s not the technical design issues of a crossing that are problem. Heck those would be easy to solve.  Its coming down to liability and indemnity clauses which should not depend on which district is involved. WildBill says they have a great relationship with their regional MTO. Up until this year so did we. Or at least I thought. How can the liability and indemnity clauses be acceptable to both sides in Wild Bills district but not ours. Are they not the same? Is our insurer allowing different clauses in different districts. If yes, why?  Why would they not say to us, here are clauses we can live with and are acceptable to MTO in other regions. Somehow, I think different rules are being used in different areas and the only way to bring it to light is with a centralized approach at least on the insurance/liability side. 
 

 

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