scottyr Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 How would you handle this? A buddy (yes for real) borrowed another friends MXZ800 to take to Cochrane on the weekend. Through no fault of his own, the motor on the 800 grenaded. My buddy who borrowed the sled feels awful but yet he did nothing wrong and the sled would have puked no matter who was riding it. If this happened to you, would you feel obligated to fix the guys motor? I tend to be of the opinion that it was going to blow no matter what. If my buddy thumped a tree and smashed it, then its no question he is on the hook but this one is a tough call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MXZSlider Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, scottyr said: How would you handle this? A buddy (yes for real) borrowed another friends MXZ800 to take to Cochrane on the weekend. Through no fault of his own, the motor on the 800 grenaded. My buddy who borrowed the sled feels awful but yet he did nothing wrong and the sled would have puked no matter who was riding it. If this happened to you, would you feel obligated to fix the guys motor? I tend to be of the opinion that it was going to blow no matter what. If my buddy thumped a tree and smashed it, then its no question he is on the hook but this one is a tough call. On the bold above, back in the day if any of my two-wheeled riding friends and I swapped out during a ride and something happened we usually fixed it at our cost. It was unspoken rule. The situation above may or may not have happened to either your friend or the owner as you mentioned. However, your friend was in the care of said machine, so they should at least make the offer to help pay for some of the damage. IMO that would be the honourable thing to do. Doesn't matter if it was the motor, or if the borrow-ee pitched it into something. Personally I say offer it up and if they are friends chances are no $$ will exchange hands and the friendship will continue. Don't offer it and they could lose more than one friend when word gets out... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, MXZSlider said: On the bold above, back in the day if any of my two-wheeled riding friends and I swapped out during a ride and something happened we usually fixed it at our cost. It was unspoken rule. The situation above may or may not have happened to either your friend or the owner as you mentioned. However, your friend was in the care of said machine, so they should at least make the offer to help pay for some of the damage. IMO that would be the honourable thing to do. Doesn't matter if it was the motor, or if the borrow-ee pitched it into something. Personally I say offer it up and if they are friends chances are no $$ will exchange hands and the friendship will continue. Don't offer it and they could lose more than one friend when word gets out... X2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 People can come at this from many different angles. There are variables that could come into play. Hard to make suggestions without knowing more about the circumstances. The borrower might want to start by asking his "friend's" opinion about what he thinks would be fair. (Should have had this discussion before the handoff.) What was the actual agreement? What was said, prior to taking the sled....about the "what-ifs"...... What year and value is the sled? What will be the repair estimate? Are we talking hundreds or thousands? I wouldn't want to borrow a sled in circumstances like that, without the what-ifs being determined in advance. (I'm sixty years old and try to reduce my mistakes as I continue to orbit the sun and circle the drain.) Exchanging sleds for a few minutes, while riding with your pals, would be a little different. Personally I'd feel bad not offering 500 or a 1,000 bucks toward the upcoming repair. If the owner wants more...... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR SLEDHEAD Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 To me, borrowed means you take responsibility for whatever happens just like it was your own. It's the reason that I just can't ever bring myself to borrow a toy like that. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) I loaned an XS 1100 motorcycle to a friend in 1981. He showed up half an hour later in a car, said he had totalled the bike, and apologized. He said he'd pay for the bike (2500?) but never did and I didnt pursue it. Needless to say I never loaned a bike again. Until 2013. A different friend borrowed and totalled my 1500 Goldwing. This friend apologized and actually felt terrible. In both cases I knew the risk when I made the loan. The second friend was a close friend and didnt really have the means to pay for the bike. I told him I didnt want anything, and was glad he survived. Edited January 8, 2020 by Blake G 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MXZSlider Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, Blake G said: People can come at this from many different angles. There are variables that could come into play. Hard to make suggestions without knowing more about the circumstances. The borrower might want to start by asking his "friend's" opinion about what he thinks would be fair. (Should have had this discussion before the handoff.) What was the actual agreement? What was said, prior to taking the sled....about the "what-ifs"...... What year and value is the sled? What will be the repair estimate? Are we talking hundreds or thousands? I wouldn't want to borrow a sled in circumstances like that, without the what-ifs being determined in advance. (I'm sixty years old and try to reduce my mistakes as I continue to orbit the sun and circle the drain.) Exchanging sleds for a few minutes, while riding with your pals, would be a little different. Personally I'd feel bad not offering 500 or a 1,000 bucks toward the upcoming repair. If the owner wants more...... Yup, agreed It takes a few seconds to say "hey, sh*t happened while I had your sled, but lemme order the replacement parts or pay (whatever) to help ya get back up and running" and to show you I'm not a total (insert word/s here) about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyr Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) This one is a really tough call. I am normally of the opinion that if "you smash it - you own it" but a motor puking it a pretty grey area. This was a 2016 MXZ800 XRS with 3000kms. It wasnt an old POS. It just puked running down the trail at 50mph. My buddy was not beating the sh-t out of it. I very rarely lend my stuff to anyone and I am very selective on who uses it. I had a good buddy borrow my early build 2003 ZR900 with 200 miles on it so he and his wife could go sledding for a weekend. Of course, she clipped a tree and smacked the sled up a bit. My buddy walked into my office on Monday morning and threw his cheque book down on my desk and explained what happened and offered to buy the sled for what I paid for it 2 weeks earlier. It turned out it wasnt as bad as it looked and it was as good as new for $1500. The principal was that he offered to just buy the sled and call it a day. Edited January 8, 2020 by scottyr 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon600 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Unwritten rule. If it breaks while you’re riding it you pay to fix it. Regardless of How big or small the issue is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 57 minutes ago, Dragon600 said: Unwritten rule. If it breaks while you’re riding it you pay to fix it. Regardless of How big or small the issue is. Agreed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Unwritten rules can work, assuming both parties understand the rules. Not a good idea to lend or borrow unless there's a meeting of the minds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Blake G said: Unwritten rules can work, assuming both parties understand the rules. Not a good idea to lend or borrow unless there's a meeting of the minds. Very true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 The borrower loses his damage deposit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Dragon600 said: Unwritten rule. If it breaks while you’re riding it you pay to fix it. Regardless of How big or small the issue is. x3. Period. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 8 hours ago, Blake G said: I loaned an XS 1100 motorcycle to a friend in 1981. He totalled it and apologized. Needless to say I never loaned a bike again. Until 2013. A different friend borrowed and totalled my 1500 Goldwing. This friend apologized and actually felt terrible. In both cases I knew the risk when I made the loan, and I don't mind that no money was offered. I would have to agree with this one. You lend it to a friend you risk it. Insurance also may not pay out if an uninsured rider is running it it as well. Usually if I borrow something I am way more careful than I am if is my own. A few bucks would be a nice gesture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinderFab Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 8 hours ago, Dragon600 said: Unwritten rule. If it breaks while you’re riding it you pay to fix it. Regardless of How big or small the issue is. X4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon600 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Fabio said: X4 I guess it’s more of a verbal rule with all my friends. We always say it before borrowing something but it’s not written anywhere so technically it’s an unwritten rule. And yes issues have happened and all my friends have never tried to waiver from the “spoken rule” cause it’s the rule. I borrowed a buddies lawn tractor a few years ago when mine was in for repair. I got a dog toy and bent the blade. So I went to the local small engine shop, bought 2 new blades and replaced them. All without even telling my buddy what happened until I returned it back to him. Just seems like the right thing to do. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Farmer Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) We had the same thing happen to a Mach z, years ago. We cut trip short and my friend paid his uncle for half repairs. It was only one cylinder and position and rings. Crank was fine. So I think half would be fair and he gets a rebuilt motor with a warranty. Good luck. Then you get to borrow sled again under good terms. Edited January 8, 2020 by Strong Farmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 8 hours ago, scottyr said: This one is a really tough call. I am normally of the opinion that if "you smash it - you own it" but a motor puking it a pretty grey area. This was a 2016 MXZ800 XRS with 3000kms. It wasnt an old POS. It just puked running down the trail at 50mph. My buddy was not beating the sh-t out of it. I very rarely lend my stuff to anyone and I am very selective on who uses it. I had a good buddy borrow my early build 2003 ZR900 with 200 miles on it so he and his wife could go sledding for a weekend. Of course, she clipped a tree and smacked the sled up a bit. My buddy walked into my office on Monday morning and threw his cheque book down on my desk and explained what happened and offered to buy the sled for what I paid for it 2 weeks earlier. It turned out it wasnt as bad as it looked and it was as good as new for $1500. The principal was that he offered to just buy the sled and call it a day. There is no doubt in my mind that the borrower should offer to pay for the engine repair. That said, however, I would also hope the sled owner treats his friend appropriately. I would be interested to know if this trip was the first trip out this year for the sled. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamaha Fan Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 This would never have happened if he had borrowed a Yamaha .... humm. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) The old adage " never a borrower nor a lender be", comes to mind! Edited January 8, 2020 by Bigfish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I don't borrow out my sleds or powersports, however I do invite family, friends, employees, customers, suppliers etc to ride them and am happy to provide the experience. I take full responsibility for accidents as they are with myself or my son present. I'm more concerned if they get damaged while being driven carelessly as the machines can be replaced. I don't expect anyone to pony up and would never accept any form of payment, but its nice to get an offer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) every situation is different. that vintage doo, and it's known motor issues, early season, prior season storage and prep... give the guy a daily rental fee, and let him use that money toward fixing it. dumping the entire grenading motor rebuild cost to the borrower, just isnt fair. what if they just swapped sleds for a few minutes in the trail, does the borrower pay for the motor? i think not. couple hundo's per day while in use, that is all that is owed, and still cheaper than renting from a business. with that said, it generally is: you borrow it, your break it, you now own it, or pay for it to be fixed back to pre-borrowed status. (or dont ask to borrow it in the first place. Ski Edited January 8, 2020 by skidooboy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulslund Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, skidooboy said: ..with that said, it generally is: you borrow it, your break it, you now own it, or pay for it to be fixed back to pre-borrowed status. (or dont ask to borrow it in the first place. Ski I think I'm going to be a minority here and say that if I lent my sled to someone, and it blew up due to mechanical failure, there is no way I would ask them to pay for it, unless they caused said mechanical failure. If I sent them on their way, full tank of gas, full tank of oil, greased skid and good bearings, and the engine just puked that is in no way their doing, and it would have happened to me riding it as well..to ask your friend for money is profiteering in my mind. I fully agree with "you break it, you fix it (or buy it)" ... but not with "if it happens to break while you were using it, you fix it (or buy it)". That's extreme in my mind. Paul. Edited January 8, 2020 by paulslund 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROSTYNUTZ Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I,m very anal about how I use any motorized vehicle, and that includes my Kubota tractor, which I wash and wax after every summer use. All my stuff is kept pristine, and I would never lend anything motorized , even to my closest friends, or relatives. I won,t own a vehicle that has had any re-paint, from even the slightest collision. I will not even ride anyone elses sled in our riding group, because I don,t want them mis-treating my sled. Borrowing a 2 stroke time bomb from a friend for a week-end, is asking for trouble. When anyone asks to borrow my stuff, I politely suggest to them that I would prefer they rent one. I gave up owning 2 stroke sleds many years ago, because of the lack of reliability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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