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ToSlow

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4 hours ago, ToSlow said:

probably get some snow but not sure if they will get enough to open trails

Why buy a permit then? . May as well wait and buy multi days when you do ride. I think you can still change a multi day permit into a full season permit and they will credit you the amount of the last multi day pass you bought, in same season. (Unless that program got axed too) 

Edited by Strong Farmer
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11 hours ago, Strong Farmer said:

Why buy a permit then? . May as well wait and buy multi days when you do ride. I think you can still change a multi day permit into a full season permit and they will credit you the amount of the last multi day pass you bought, in same season. (Unless that program got axed too) 

Buying multi-day permits in lieu of a full season permit is a personal choice and IMHO should be kept a personal choice. There won't be any trails if a large percentage of permit buyers switch to multi-day permits. 

If you end up buy 3 different day permits over the season, you have spent more money than buying an early permit.

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35 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Buying multi-day permits in lieu of a full season permit is a personal choice and IMHO should be kept a personal choice. There won't be any trails if a large percentage of permit buyers switch to multi-day permits. 

If you end up buy 3 different day permits over the season, you have spent more money than buying an early permit.

If you are not going to ride at least three times you are better off renting imho 

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53 minutes ago, Wildbill said:

If you are not going to ride at least three times you are better off renting imho 

Last year only rode half a day at home and 3 days in central ontario. Weather changing in south central ontario. Not much snow here for past four years. I just sold one snowmobile last month, etec is gone. Now only have one. Hoping to ride it more this year. Wait and see. 

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1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Buying multi-day permits in lieu of a full season permit is a personal choice and IMHO should be kept a personal choice. There won't be any trails if a large percentage of permit buyers switch to multi-day permits. 

If you end up buy 3 different day permits over the season, you have spent more money than buying an early permit.

Now you can buy 8 days total( 4, 2 day permits) before you  Hit cost of a full season permit. Early permit is a great deal and I always take advantage of it. But with no snow around here better to wait and see before shelling out 270 dollars, that is all, especially since you can buy online and ride right away. I would be in favour of a two year permit if it ever gets tied to Val tags, just like license on cars. Then ofsc could plan farther ahead and count on funds and do an investment ahead of time to grow funds during off season. 

Edited by Strong Farmer
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Strong Farmer, it's always good to see your views, along with those of most most other folk.

 

I've left one sled unpermitted so far this year, as it's up for sale....if it doesn't sell, I might stick a two day permit on it for a change of pace when the lakes are good in Muskoka.

 

Good luck with your new expected child. 

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3 hours ago, Strong Farmer said:

Now you can buy 8 days total( 4, 2 day permits) before you  Hit cost of a full season permit. Early permit is a great deal and I always take advantage of it. But with no snow around here better to wait and see before shelling out 270 dollars, that is all, especially since you can buy online and ride right away. I would be in favour of a two year permit if it ever gets tied to Val tags, just like license on cars. Then ofsc could plan farther ahead and count on funds and do an investment ahead of time to grow funds during off season. 

This will be the final solution to so many problems from permit enforcability to final cost as long as a solution can be found to the ever looming insurance nightmare that is not just the sport of sledding but ontario in general 

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1 hour ago, Wildbill said:

This will be the final solution to so many problems from permit enforcability to final cost as long as a solution can be found to the ever looming insurance nightmare that is not just the sport of sledding but ontario in general 

Maybe ofsc could start to self insure its trail system to cut costs. I don’t see why not. 

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43 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

Maybe ofsc could start to self insure its trail system to cut costs. I don’t see why not. 

a multi-million $ lawsuit isn't unheard of when someone is killed... if they were to win where would they come up with that kind of money

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31 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

a multi-million $ lawsuit isn't unheard of when someone is killed... if they were to win where would they come up with that kind of money

Whole idea of self insuring is to hold money in trust until needed. It would take time to do it no doubt. Ofsc should be way farther ahead once reserves got built up though. Maybe a portion of self insurance and a portion of regular insurance would work, to build necessary reserves and cover risks. Powers in numbers and maybe we could eventually join atv riders to self ensure too. Anything is possible. Have to think outside box to survive today. 

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39 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

Whole idea of self insuring is to hold money in trust until needed. It would take time to do it no doubt. Ofsc should be way farther ahead once reserves got built up though. Maybe a portion of self insurance and a portion of regular insurance would work, to build necessary reserves and cover risks. Powers in numbers and maybe we could eventually join atv riders to self ensure too. Anything is possible. Have to think outside box to survive today. 

If not mistaken they already self insurance for the first X $'s. I can't recall the amount but it is significant.

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1 hour ago, Strong Farmer said:

Maybe ofsc could start to self insure its trail system to cut costs. I don’t see why not. 

They already are self insured, it's called a deductible.

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1 hour ago, Strong Farmer said:

Whole idea of self insuring is to hold money in trust until needed. It would take time to do it no doubt. Ofsc should be way farther ahead once reserves got built up though. Maybe a portion of self insurance and a portion of regular insurance would work, to build necessary reserves and cover risks. Powers in numbers and maybe we could eventually join atv riders to self ensure too. Anything is possible. Have to think outside box to survive today. 

We are self insured to a limit. As for the atvs those guys cannot even get along with each other. I am not saying that it will never happen but the entitlement and kingdom building that is (dis)organized atving has to stop first and atvers will have to understand that all trails are not available 

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3 hours ago, 02Sled said:

a multi-million $ lawsuit isn't unheard of when someone is killed... if they were to win where would they come up with that kind of money

Who's pocket do you think that comes out of,  Insurance Co or permit holders?

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11 hours ago, Strong Farmer said:

When are we going turbo doll!  I can’t wait to go to NCDN now! 

Turbo Doll. :icon_lolsign:

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Denis, I can only assume that you had a stressful Christmas (it happens). Hopefully, 2020 will be a great year for you and your family, as well as all OCers, including Strong Farmer.

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2 hours ago, tricky said:

Denis, I can only assume that you had a stressful Christmas (it happens). Hopefully, 2020 will be a great year for you and your family, as well as all OCers, including Strong Farmer.

 

Christmas is ALWAYS stressful, for the 2 weeks leading up to it, it is my birthday after all.  The day before and day of aren't a problem (wine fixes that....)  The days after are difficult too, trying to balance some family time with the urge to go sledding.  Such a fine line....  Thank you btw, and same for you and your family.

 

 

(This year wasn't any more or less stressful than any other, if you're referring to my comment on the previous page ... my patience wears thin sometimes... just like everyone elses' ...)

 

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48 minutes ago, Techdenis007 said:

 

... The days after are difficult too, trying to balance some family time with the urge to go sledding.  Such a fine line.... 

 

Your comment on the difficulty for many of us, of balancing sledding time versus family time, particularly at this time of year, leads indirectly back to the topic of this thread. Permits. In the south, the permit(s) purchase is complicated by the lack of a local snowmobile season. In the past four years, I have snowmobiled locally (no out of town lodging) five days in D4, 5 and/or 9. For me that doesn't effect my decision to always purchase my pass early. I will go wherever the snow is, but that is not an option to hundreds of (former) southern sledders whose families aren't totally into sledding, and their departures to the north sledding would upset the family balance.

 

For many friends, the new winter norm has them in various stages of snowmobile withdrawal. Some have cashed out completely; some who bought passes in the fall of 16 and 17, only to never use them, have kept a sled or two, just 'in case'. A few continue to buy passes in perpetual hope.  Some have bought two day passes on occasion in the past couple of years. I can't blame them for that, when family commitments are such that, even when we get a week of open trails, they may be off with family to a hockey tournament or a family reunion. I can only assume that full season pass sales in District 4, 5 and 9 have been steadily falling. Amongst friends, the negative trend is somewhat offset by a couple of gentlemen of age being somewhat freed from the daily work/life grind, such that they can contemplate re-entering the sport as touring sledders. This however, is a tough decision when they know the cost is going to be higher than their previous sledding was, while their income has declined.

 

I know there are smarter, more connected people than me studying the trends, and hopefully there will remain a viable market for our trail system. But I don't see how this can happen without more trail pass enforcement, and possible more pass options (I know that has been beat almost to death....) 

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Great post.

 

By the way, I appreciate your phrase "gentlemen of age" and may reconsider my normal "a bunch of old bastards" when referring to my friends.

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44 minutes ago, Blake G said:

Great post.

 

By the way, I appreciate your phrase "gentlemen of age" and may reconsider my normal "a bunch of old bastards" when referring to my friends.

:-D that made me laugh... I can live with being one of those "old bastards"....

 

Lack of snow in some areas, demands on your time are indeed large influences on how often people get to ride and their decision to stay in the sport. After riding once last winter and now that we have a puppy my wife has concluded she isn't inclined to snowmobile any longer.

Edited by 02Sled
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