Superior Snow Challenge

[AC+YA]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 6:24 PM, skidooboy said:

saw on FB, marathon sno kickers made it to Manitouwadge with the groomer. now we need people to use this trail to grow interest to expand grooming, and trail access. step in the right direction. thanks to ALL that made this possible.   Ski

I would love to run over that way and give that trail some use.  The D trail west of the Magpie needs to open (closed due to loggers plowing the trail to dirt in two areas) and then the water hazards just before White River and those after White River need to be fixed in a way that lasts the season or detoured around.  They do a great job of pushing through each season and a couple days later they are washed out.  Did my own detours around on lakes and hit the water where there was no choice.  Now I choose to not go because of all the issues.  Even if the loop is put together and connected, the water has to be fixed.  Put skids and pack over so that the trail stays a while.  This is sad because I love those trails, but won't take groups through all the hazards.  The trail is actually closed now, so how can anyone use the ones that are being opened?  Sad to see the efforts that will never be reached by most.

[revrnd]

4 hours ago, AC+YA said:

I would love to run over that way and give that trail some use.  The D trail west of the Magpie needs to open (closed due to loggers plowing the trail to dirt in two areas) and then the water hazards just before White River and those after White River need to be fixed in a way that lasts the season or detoured around.  They do a great job of pushing through each season and a couple days later they are washed out.  Did my own detours around on lakes and hit the water where there was no choice.  Now I choose to not go because of all the issues.  Even if the loop is put together and connected, the water has to be fixed.  Put skids and pack over so that the trail stays a while.  This is sad because I love those trails, but won't take groups through all the hazards.  The trail is actually closed now, so how can anyone use the ones that are being opened?  Sad to see the efforts that will never be reached by most.

We ran down from Geraldton a couple of years before D16 disappeared. TOP D west of White Lake was quite the eye opener for us flat landers. I think that was the 1st year we rode to Wawa.

[signfan]

Sounds like things are booming in this area with mining and with the east west connector transmission line being built. Umber prices must be helpibg the softwood lumber mills as well.  Wonder if this will help the cause in getting these loops re-opened.  Anyone heard any updates?

[skidooboy]

need more local involvement, by more than a handful of burnt out former volunteers, that remember how it "was".  most residents of those communities look at grooming as a great option to make it easier to ride but, most never leave the communities further than 25-40kms to go to fish, hunt, camps, etc... their feelings revolve around seasonal roads, routes, trails that are on crown land that shouldnt cost them anything to utilize. they dont see the need to spend all the time, money, and energy to groom for tourists who may or may not come. 

 

could it happen again? sure, will it? is the bigger question.

 

Ski

[Bucking Pig]

11 hours ago, skidooboy said:

need more local involvement, by more than a handful of burnt out former volunteers, that remember how it "was".  most residents of those communities look at grooming as a great option to make it easier to ride but, most never leave the communities further than 25-40kms to go to fish, hunt, camps, etc... their feelings revolve around seasonal roads, routes, trails that are on crown land that shouldnt cost them anything to utilize. they dont see the need to spend all the time, money, and energy to groom for tourists who may or may not come. 

 

could it happen again? sure, will it? is the bigger question.

 

Ski

Exactly!  

[Strong Farmer]

Be nice if F trail was re opened again. I think it is major challenge to just maintain current network of trails.  D201F needs some improvements near halfway and soo could use some help with all washouts last few seasons. If weather keeps up and things aren’t improved going to be a major challenge to even get to wawa or dub from south.  Once trails are closed it is a major under taking to re open them, especially the way the brush grows in that area and bridges will be shot and need repairs and upgrades to handle bigger groomers that are used today. 

[skidooboy]

the F trail as we knew it, when flame lake lodge, and aubrey falls trading post were open, will probably never re-open they way it was routed, the distance between, rest stops, change over, fueling for the groomer and the operators. it was ROUGH TERRAIN, HUGE HILLS, WATER/SWAMPS, ETC... especially farther south near Aubrey falls.

 

then you have the distance thing to work around... the distance between chapleau, then Aubrey Falls trading post was close to 200km ONE WAY. VERY DIFFICULT FOR ONE OPERATOR TO RUN THE WHOLE DISTANCE IN ONE SHOT. And that is just talking about an easy groom, not mentioning the opening up, brushing, signing, repairs needed multiple times a season. too far from the soo, elliot lake, thessalon, to have a large volunteer/worker base to draw from, to be effective.  

 

then you have a hand full of people EXPECTED TO DO THIS FOR FREE, WITH LITTLE TO NO HELP, SUPPORT... JUST COMPLAINTS. and there lies the rub... funding for newer equipment, trail repair, maintenance, and volunteer burn out. Ski

[AC+YA]

7 hours ago, skidooboy said:

the F trail as we knew it, when flame lake lodge, and aubrey falls trading post were open, will probably never re-open they way it was routed, the distance between, rest stops, change over, fueling for the groomer and the operators. it was ROUGH TERRAIN, HUGE HILLS, WATER/SWAMPS, ETC... especially farther south near Aubrey falls.

 

then you have the distance thing to work around... the distance between chapleau, then Aubrey Falls trading post was close to 200km ONE WAY. VERY DIFFICULT FOR ONE OPERATOR TO RUN THE WHOLE DISTANCE IN ONE SHOT. And that is just talking about an easy groom, not mentioning the opening up, brushing, signing, repairs needed multiple times a season. too far from the soo, elliot lake, thessalon, to have a large volunteer/worker base to draw from, to be effective.  

 

then you have a hand full of people EXPECTED TO DO THIS FOR FREE, WITH LITTLE TO NO HELP, SUPPORT... JUST COMPLAINTS. and there lies the rub... funding for newer equipment, trail repair, maintenance, and volunteer burn out. Ski

So true.  I think it would have to be re-routed using unmaintained roads and even some more of the Hwy 129 edge as was done near Flame Lake in the past.  Just keeping the D201F open so that Elliot Lake is connected to the north is proving to be tough.  This area has far more sleds using it when it has been opened and kept open the entire season. Weather related issues like last year and the washouts from the past have kept the maps from showing it was good to plan on using it until late season because it seems to be too remote.  It happens last since it is groomed by the Soo, but only routes most sleds around and past the Soo with almost no economic impact on the Soo except to cut the Soo out of the touring sleds on most big loops.  This is also partly due to the lack of fuel in Searchmont for many years now.  

[skidooboy]

from FB today https://www.facebook.com/MarathonSnoKickers/

 

looks like they are linking mani to the D trail again. congrats and thank you, to all involved. Ski

 

for those non fb'ers:

After 10 years the town of manitouwadge will be connected with the D trail once again. The marathon sno kickers will add about 50 km of trail to their route. We have a great group in manitouwadge that has got this going and is working to open the trail. As always volunteers and community support is always welcome. Remember buy your pass before the nov 1 increase.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by skidooboy

[Turbo Doo]

A big congrats to all involved.  Looking forward to giving it a go. Awesome work by the volunteers..

[Turbo Doo]

[tricky]

This is great news. Maybe this winter of Covid will help deliver more southern sledders to vacation in the North Western districts. Clubs like the Marathon Sno-Kickers and many more deserve the support. I hope some businesses will enjoy a good winter season to help build/maintain local enthusiasm. If some of the previously mentioned temporary(?) trail closures can be avoided, then sledders like me will feel more comfortable dragging their friends up to the White River/Marathon/ Manitouwadge area. There are so many areas in the north that I want to visit this winter - I might have to find a house to rent somewhere north of 17.

[Turbo Doo]

34 minutes ago, tricky said:

This is great news. Maybe this winter of Covid will help deliver more southern sledders to vacation in the North Western districts. Clubs like the Marathon Sno-Kickers and many more deserve the support. I hope some businesses will enjoy a good winter season to help build/maintain local enthusiasm. If some of the previously mentioned temporary(?) trail closures can be avoided, then sledders like me will feel more comfortable dragging their friends up to the White River/Marathon/ Manitouwadge area. There are so many areas in the north that I want to visit this winter - I might have to find a house to rent somewhere north of 17.

Well said Tricky... When we were in the NCDN on Thanksgiving,  we checked out a few properties..

Edited October 27, 2020 by Turbo Doo

[skidooboy]

1 hour ago, tricky said:

This is great news. Maybe this winter of Covid will help deliver more southern sledders to vacation in the North Western districts. Clubs like the Marathon Sno-Kickers and many more deserve the support. I hope some businesses will enjoy a good winter season to help build/maintain local enthusiasm. If some of the previously mentioned temporary(?) trail closures can be avoided, then sledders like me will feel more comfortable dragging their friends up to the White River/Marathon/ Manitouwadge area. There are so many areas in the north that I want to visit this winter - I might have to find a house to rent somewhere north of 17. 

although i like your enthusiasm, and commitment to the sport... it is hard to get the masses to trailer to sudbury or north bay, in the best economic, health, and snow circumstances. now with the border closed, and the "short cut" through mich to the far north, northwest being blocked, i dont think (but, i could be wrong) you will get many more than the usual diehards coming. and with the same border closed, it will effect the tourism, and traffic to these trails and towns, from lack of travelers from the states. 

 

if you are serious about housing... you may have missed that lull in real estate pricing... with lumber and mining making a BIG BOOM, right now... there are fewer and more far between deals, and properties available. dub for example last i heard was expecting to add 4-600 more people to the population, they have approx 18 properties available, and are looking to figure how to expand yet keep the "smallness" of the township. Ski

[tricky]

2 hours ago, skidooboy said:

if you are serious about housing... you may have missed that lull in real estate pricing... with lumber and mining making a BIG BOOM, right now... there are fewer and more far between deals, and properties available. dub for example last i heard was expecting to add 4-600 more people to the population, they have approx 18 properties available, and are looking to figure how to expand yet keep the "smallness" of the township. Ski

Under ideal circumstances for myself, I would only be interested in a two to three month winter rental, cause the missus in not the least bit interested in what lies north of 17. Those circumstances are only going to exist in a depressed housing market, and I am much happier to see the current resources boom and prosperity. I don't mind driving north half a dozen times a year to enjoy my sport in different locals. I did learn a tough lesson in late winter of 2019 when I lead my buddies into White River on a weekday at about 8 PM without reservations and found out there was absolutely nowhere to stay. Taxi to Wawa and back the next day was expensive and tricky to find. Good for the business operators, miners and building trades though. I just hope there is motel/hotel accommodation available this winter, with prior reservation of course. This is really going to cramp my style as I have seldom made week day reservations in 25 years of sled touring. We have always enjoyed the option of traveling 300 km or 700km in a day, depending on how the day went. No more free lancing.

Edited October 27, 2020 by tricky

[Strong Farmer]

2 hours ago, skidooboy said:

although i like your enthusiasm, and commitment to the sport... it is hard to get the masses to trailer to sudbury or north bay, in the best economic, health, and snow circumstances. now with the border closed, and the "short cut" through mich to the far north, northwest being blocked, i dont think (but, i could be wrong) you will get many more than the usual diehards coming. and with the same border closed, it will effect the tourism, and traffic to these trails and towns, from lack of travelers from the states. 

 

if you are serious about housing... you may have missed that lull in real estate pricing... with lumber and mining making a BIG BOOM, right now... there are fewer and more far between deals, and properties available. dub for example last i heard was expecting to add 4-600 more people to the population, they have approx 18 properties available, and are looking to figure how to expand yet keep the "smallness" of the township. Ski

3/4 of motel rooms will probably be rented out again too, especially with COVID. Good to see thorough. Hopefully it lasts up there, un like Kirkland lake.  

[Turbo Doo]

Lets be positive on this.  Hats off to a job well done from the volunteers.  Any addition to trails in the north is a plus for the guys who actually go up and ride there. Kudos to them, and i am looking forward to giving it a go. I will support the cause in a way i can,  to come ride, buy gas, use hotels/motels and eat food. Hats off to them.....

[Ox]

SDB:

 

Would you like to expand on the uptick @ Dub?

 

Is the mill back open aggin or what?

 

Shirley that mill couldn't take THAT many employees can it?

 

Is there more going on (new) than that?

Edited October 27, 2020 by Ox

[stoney]

58 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

3/4 of motel rooms will probably be rented out again too, especially with COVID. Good to see thorough. Hopefully it lasts up there, un like Kirkland lake.  

 

I do not recall the year it was, but it was not too long ago that the majority of the rooms when we stayed in some of the northern hotels were by in large contractors working locally from out of town....it was crazy busy.

27 minutes ago, Ox said:

SDB:

 

Would you like to expand on the uptick @ Dub?

 

Is the mill back open aggin or what?

 

Shirley that mill couldn't take THAT many employees can it?

 

Is there more going on (new) than that?

Survey crews were working overtime a few years ago scouting things out in the North.....and we know how long process' can take, so maybe the actual work is now under way based on that surveying. 

 

[skidooboy]

46 minutes ago, Ox said:

SDB:

 

Would you like to expand on the uptick @ Dub?

 

Is the mill back open aggin or what?

 

Shirley that mill couldn't take THAT many employees can it?

 

Is there more going on (new) than that?

wawa will be packed with contractors working on the new hydro corridor from wawa to thunderbay, for at least this winter, if not the next few. i have heard the motor in has the chalets booked for the ENTIRE WINTER FOR THIS. 

 

dub, will be packed with mining workers and contractors, for the next foreseeable future. ox, there is one fully functional gold mine operating in dub now, and one or two between dub and white river. there are 2 new gold mines working on exploration, and opening one as an open pit mine between dub and localsh. plus the new cable, fibre optic internet line work that is supposed to start soon. and right now there is a dismantling company from Qc in town demoing, and reclaiming the mill site. 

 

and there are several other items with promise including but, not limited to mine operation support as an industrial park in Dub, where the mill was, for the region. and possibly a new technology of super fast kiln dried wood business, for all sorts of applications inc but, not limited to wooden musical instrument blank making.

 

plus they now have a main haul road linking dub, hornepayne, oba, hearst etc.... the club will not be able to use either the drey (dree road), or the simpson road, in the very near future, for sled trail usage. now the mills in white river, hornepayne, and hearst can run cross country v.s running around on 631, 17, 519. shortening the drives for the log haulers. our days of no use, or low use and being able to access the back country crown land, on the available roads they were not utilizing is coming to a QUICK END. the new mines will undoubtedly utilize part or most of road 48 between dub and hawk. the club is up against some serious competition for road/trail use, v.s progress, speed, and safety for the mines/lumber industry.  mark my words, we will never have use of the 100 mile loop the way it was, ever again.

 

with the small volunteer base, and the high dollars associated for the need for a complete re-route of all trails, to connect to all communities, the club, disctrict and the ofsc have a big mountain to climb. the days of utilizing the roads is over, the need for a dedicated snowmobile/atv permanent trail system for Dub, to hawk/wawa, white river, hornepayne, is long overdue. every year it gets worse and worse, causing wasted man hours, and money, when a group decides they need the road after "committing"   they didnt. i feel bad for the club but, we can only do so much from where we are. and the need to change the thinking of needing a permanent trail solution, grouping user groups together for more "power" to get these trails/infrastructure in place more sooner than later. 

 

Ski 

 

 

[Ox]

I thought that the current mine was in the Localsh area. No?

Heck, they were digging a test hole near Localsh 25 years ago by now.

I remember them hauling it out of there and on to (I ass_u_me) White River (well, the 614 concession anyhow) for processing almost 20 yrs ago.

Those trucks would make that road at Localsh - built up out of swamp dirt - just shake when they would roll by!

I have doubt that _ that road would hold up to too much traffic like that, but I ass_u_me that they doo the processing on site now...

 

Like normal - it's either feast or famine in the north...

10 year cycles +/-

 

OK, so if logging has taken off aggin, then why are they moving the mill?

Are they hauling it back to QB?

Or just moving it locally?

I'm kind'a wondering if they are trying to git away from the hometown in hopes of getting help and such - if Dub is, or is to become so busy?

 

As for the "Industrial Park"?

I'll believe that when I see it.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Ox

[Canuck]

That's fantastic news for the northern communities. Employment, rising house prices (especially for those that own - opportunities to sell and buy in the same market). [shameless plug for son, who's becoming a mortgage broker - need to look into oc.com advertising opportunities].

 

Sledders are 'incidental' to the above, and I'm glad. We'll find accommodations - if not traditional hotels, vrbo (vacation rentals) or airbnb. Supply and demand work out, if left alone. For example, 'no hockey tournaments' in some towns (decrease in demand) - more rooms should be available. On the supply side, maybe new hotel operators and restaurants will set up in these communities. Glad that there's northern Ontario development. Can't wait to see it.

 

 

[Ox]

My guess is that there likely wasn't much for hockey in many of these towns in the last many years?

Unless they were staying at each other houses?

 

Like Manitouwadge... They HAD 2 full motels in town, and you better hope they can find an empty room between the two if you roll into town and there's hockey in town this weekend!

We got the last room at least once, and we were the only folks there that didn't know everyone else.*

... and then when '08 came through - they all shut down, so then what?

 

 

*Kind'a like all the kids in the ski towns in Colorado. They all knew each other, and then there was a few sledders mixed in ... Subaru's and diesel trucks.... I guess we all got along OK... ???

[skidooboy]

58 minutes ago, Ox said:

I thought that the current mine was in the Localsh area. No?

Heck, they were digging a test hole near Localsh 25 years ago by now.

I remember them hauling it out of there and on to (I ass_u_me) White River (well, the 614 concession anyhow) for processing almost 20 yrs ago.

Those trucks would make that road at Localsh - built up out of swamp dirt - just shake when they would roll by!

I have doubt that _ that road would hold up to too much traffic like that, but I ass_u_me that they doo the processing on site now...

 

Like normal - it's either feast or famine in the north...

10 year cycles +/-

 

OK, so if logging has taken off aggin, then why are they moving the mill?

Are they hauling it back to QB?

Or just moving it locally?

I'm kind'a wondering if they are trying to git away from the hometown in hopes of getting help and such - if Dub is, or is to become so busy?

 

As for the "Industrial Park"?

I'll believe that when I see it.

current mine (alamos) is close to where goudreau rd and 48 come together, the magino mine isnt far from there. then you have the (i believe)  renabie project, closer to localsh. 

 

mill closed ops in 2007-08, buildings, and infrastructure sat idle, and unmaintained. the machines that were not completely useless or outdated were sold, i believe buchanan lumber that bought Dubreuil forest products, is now defunct or in receivership (i could be wrong).  now you have to completely rebuild or make a new modern mill, with all the environmental permits studies etc... would be a huge investment for a maybe return.

 

most local lumber is processed in hornepayne, white river, and or hearst. there used to be one forest management permit, use, by dubreuil forest products, it was "easier" to work with one group for trail access, info, help, partnership. now there are 10-15 logging ops that have permits to cut, and haul in the area, and one group says they are done, another says they need a few more weeks and we are done... then the wind blows and the plan changes. usually resulting in a lot of club work down the drain.

 

last year a company (after saying they were done) plowed up 60km of trail after it was groomed in, to pick up 3 loads of birch, and a few more "regular wood" loads.  all in the name of a dollar. another group said they would not need the d west road (road12), it was groomed almost to hammer lake (fishing moose lodge, the former H&C lodge) almost halfway to white river, and the club found the white river side had been plowed. shortly after that road 12 that was supposed to be idle, was opened, and plowed. the trail west never officially opened. if that happens again, the white river, mani, marathon trail is disconnected yet again. 

 

Dub cant grow anymore without a fully functioning, reliable, high speed internet connection. right now the broad band is full, the DSL node is full. it is so unstable, and slow, it is hard to do much with it. they wont allow any new subscribers. sat internet is getting more popular but, cost, weather issues, speed and reliability, make it not a popular choice. once they get the fibre optic line (been promised for 2-3 years now), then they can expand the city limits, and start building homes for the new mines, and the staff needed to run, and support them.  

 

big changes are coming but, they are not coming without a price. i am happy for the boom but, i am scared for the boom. it may not be the small town we are so used to. but, that is progress. Ski

Edited October 27, 2020 by skidooboy

[signfan]

53 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

current mine (alamos) is close to where goudreau rd and 48 come together, the magino mine isnt far from there. then you have the (i believe)  renabie project, closer to localsh. 

 

mill closed ops in 2007-08, buildings, and infrastructure sat idle, and unmaintained. the machines that were not completely useless or outdated were sold, i believe buchanan lumber that bought Dubreuil forest products, is now defunct or in receivership (i could be wrong).  now you have to completely rebuild or make a new modern mill, with all the environmental permits studies etc... would be a huge investment for a maybe return.

 

most local lumber is processed in hornepayne, white river, and or hearst. there used to be one forest management permit, use, by dubreuil forest products, it was "easier" to work with one group for trail access, info, help, partnership. now there are 10-15 logging ops that have permits to cut, and haul in the area, and one group says they are done, another says they need a few more weeks and we are done... then the wind blows and the plan changes. usually resulting in a lot of club work down the drain.

 

last year a company (after saying they were done) plowed up 60km of trail after it was groomed in, to pick up 3 loads of birch, and a few more "regular wood" loads.  all in the name of a dollar. another group said they would not need the d west road (road12), it was groomed almost to hammer lake (fishing moose lodge, the former H&C lodge) almost halfway to white river, and the club found the white river side had been plowed. shortly after that road 12 that was supposed to be idle, was opened, and plowed. the trail west never officially opened. if that happens again, the white river, mani, marathon trail is disconnected yet again. 

 

Dub cant grow anymore without a fully functioning, reliable, high speed internet connection. right now the broad band is full, the DSL node is full. it is so unstable, and slow, it is hard to do much with it. they wont allow any new subscribers. sat internet is getting more popular but, cost, weather issues, speed and reliability, make it not a popular choice. once they get the fibre optic line (been promised for 2-3 years now), then they can expand the city limits, and start building homes for the new mines, and the staff needed to run, and support them.  

 

big changes are coming but, they are not coming without a price. i am happy for the boom but, i am scared for the boom. it may not be the small town we are so used to. but, that is progress. Ski

Starlink is coming soon.