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The freeriding has to STOP


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Funny, I remember when our area ski resort banned snow boards when they first came out. Imagine for a minute what a short sighted decision that was! (They now have one of the best snow board parks in Ontario and have spent millions to attract snow boarders.) The ski industry changed in a short period of time.

 

The snowmobile industry is changing before our eyes, more off trail sleds, snow bikes! No point standing on the sidelines bitching about it. 

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you will NEVER get a landowner, business owner, to give access to a gravel pit, open area to "play" with all lawsuits for injuries to follow. N.E.V.E.R!!!!

 

now a township, region, ect... that wants to build, maintain a "park" build it and they "may" come. similar to hattfield/mccoy park, system. trails, park, mud pits, dunes, ect...  just have to have someone with the vision, and monetary backing to build it, and insure it, and maintain it.

 

but, "these types" of riders, are looking for fresh untracked, ungroomed adventure, and excitement. unfortunately most do not live in an area that supports this, and they refuse to travel to these areas that it is available in. the problem is multi-faceted, and difficult to find an easy, or blanket solution, in a timely manner. Ski

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2 hours ago, Claire Voyant said:

Looking forward to the pics of Zoso's truck on the trails.

while I would never do that. I have seen a few that have, and there was nothing we could do about it. One was a subaru outback right up at the top of the trail I posted. everyone wanted to burn it, as it was parked on the trail,  in the end, could not even give it a parking ticket.

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2 hours ago, gobills said:

Just because he says he can right!!

This post right here reflects the attitude of those in a position to help fix the issues we face with exclusive rights and permit enforcement. "I do not like the truth, so i will argue for the fantasy I prefer" attitude. the fact is, right now 1000's of km's of our trail system are wide open where no permit enforcement can be made. sadly nobody seems care and many prefer to argue that it is not happening instead of talking about ways in which to fix it. the head in the sand and rose coloured glasses attitudes are astonishing. eventually this is going to hurt the one area that has reliable snow, year in and year out. the north. obviously the south has a different issue, that being trespassing on private lands. One issue needs government to intervene, the other needs current laws enforced. Neither of these two trail issues are being addressed currently to a satisfctory manner, and if anything is being down at the BOG level, communication is lacking in regards to what.

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2 hours ago, Xfirecat said:

Funny, I remember when our area ski resort banned snow boards when they first came out. Imagine for a minute what a short sighted decision that was! (They now have one of the best snow board parks in Ontario and have spent millions to attract snow boarders.) The ski industry changed in a short period of time.

 

The snowmobile industry is changing before our eyes, more off trail sleds, snow bikes! No point standing on the sidelines bitching about it. 

673D1409-4ED7-448D-A8A2-CB712D27ABA8.jpeg

Pretty easy to allow a snow board to use existing infrastructure. Likening that to the OFSC ( a trail building entity) where the majority of the trails are across private lands with owners that do not want sleds anywhere but on the trail and donate use out of the goodness of their hearts, is ludicrous.

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1 hour ago, zoso said:

This post right here reflects the attitude of those in a position to help fix the issues we face with exclusive rights and permit enforcement. "I do not like the truth, so i will argue for the fantasy I prefer" attitude. the fact is, right now 1000's of km's of our trail system are wide open where no permit enforcement can be made. sadly nobody seems care and many prefer to argue that it is not happening instead of talking about ways in which to fix it. the head in the sand and rose coloured glasses attitudes are astonishing. eventually this is going to hurt the one area that has reliable snow, year in and year out. the north. obviously the south has a different issue, that being trespassing on private lands. One issue needs government to intervene, the other needs current laws enforced. Neither of these two trail issues are being addressed currently to a satisfctory manner, and if anything is being down at the BOG level, communication is lacking in regards to what.

So what am I missing? You post on this topic frequently but I can't find the post that identifies the specific legislation, Act, article, by-law, MOU, Treaty, etc. that defends your argument. Why are YOU so right, and the rest of us so wrong?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Claire Voyant said:

So what am I missing? You post on this topic frequently but I can't find the post that identifies the specific legislation, Act, article, by-law, MOU, Treaty, etc. that defends your argument. Why are YOU so right, and the rest of us so wrong?

 

 

You are missing the fact that on public lands where motorized travel is allowed, nobody can claim exclusive rights without it being in writing from the ministry. Guess what. The ministry no longer provides that to the OFSC on GENERAL use crown lands. Not to hard to understand yet you seem so very confused. Further on road allowances nobody can claim exclusive use, same goes for lakes. why this is confusing you is odd. it is not as it was, the ministry screwed us.

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claire, in regards to legislation. No legislation changed. What changed is the right of the ofsc to claim exclusive rights to the lands during winter. All tht happened was the ministry stopped granting that right on gu crown lands.

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4 hours ago, Xfirecat said:

Don't think any point was missed. But I agree with zoso that the ski hill analogy is a poor one. Yes the industry is currently channeling most of their energy on freeride and deep snow machines, and yes, people are buying them. But in Ontario, south of highway 17, there is not enough wide open public, or private land to enjoy such machines the way they are intended to be used. The manufacturers are facilitating there own demise, at least in southern Ontario, with their current direction. Northern Ontario, and the western states and provinces may be able to accommodate the freeride boom, but we are losing trail permission big time in the areas where most people live and cottage.

 

How is the freeride boom playing out in NH, VT, NY, MI, and WI? 

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2 hours ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

I'm going to buy two free rides is that wrong.?

 

2 wrongs make a right? :rotflmao:

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1 hour ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

I'm going to buy two free rides is that wrong.?

Could be. Depends where and how you are going to use them.

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1 hour ago, Denis007 said:

 

2 wrongs make a right? 

Let's hope so..

36 minutes ago, tricky said:

Could be. Depends where and how you are going to use them.

Farm fields only. 

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5 hours ago, UsedtoSkidoo said:

Farm fields only. 

Great fun! I could be a convert, if I had legal access to land to use.

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On 3/23/2019 at 8:07 PM, tricky said:

Don't think any point was missed. But I agree with zoso that the ski hill analogy is a poor one. Yes the industry is currently channeling most of their energy on freeride and deep snow machines, and yes, people are buying them. But in Ontario, south of highway 17, there is not enough wide open public, or private land to enjoy such machines the way they are intended to be used. The manufacturers are facilitating there own demise, at least in southern Ontario, with their current direction. Northern Ontario, and the western states and provinces may be able to accommodate the freeride boom, but we are losing trail permission big time in the areas where most people live and cottage.

 

How is the freeride boom playing out in NH, VT, NY, MI, and WI? 

The same type of off trail riders who think they are out West are having many miles of trails closed for their actions> I agree, all the advertising for the Manufacturers show the majority of their sled touting deep snow and off trail riding! Its these riders along with their obnoxious aftermarket exhausts along with the off trail riding that will slowly kill this once great sport for all of us.

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https://www.snowtechmagazine.com/the-enemy-within/?fbclid=IwAR3QvsGpilU-6FD9i5xMHgCEBm9reWMKSrxMzSQYF4BhG7Ni_3jK9DNT13g

 

FROM SNOWTECHMAGAZINE.COM

Having been involved in the sport for over 50 years now, we’ve seen the growth and rapid rise to fame of snowmobiling and are now witness to what could very well be our demise. Over the years we’ve fought and conquered many battles, from government emissions regulations to rising fuel prices to restrictive land use policies, but these could very well pale in comparison to our current number one enemy – and all we have to do to find it is look in the mirror. 

That’s right snowmobilers, take a look in the mirror to find the current cause of fear and demise of having places to ride our beloved snowmobiles. We are truly our own worst enemy. We could very well be the main cause of the decline of our sport.

For the past several years we’ve been warning you and talking about a couple of subjects that are having a negative impact on our sport, both in terms of riding areas but also in the eyes of the general public and our image as a user group in general. Perhaps you know where we’re going with this, because we’d like to think those of you reading this are not the problem and that we’re preaching to the choir, so to speak.

There are several elephants in the room. Loud exhaust pipes and trespassing on private land are two of them. All one has to do is read some of the colorful commentary on social media to see how so many snowmobilers do not understand the importance of these two subjects to get a glimpse of why it has become such a problem. Many snowmobilers evidently think it is their right to make as much noise as they damn well please, and they think they are doing no harm by cutting across open field and riding outside the groomed portion of a trail when it suits them. 

Of course, these riders will use all kinds of logical arguments to support and bolster their positions, claiming riders drinking alcohol is a bigger problem or that riders going too fast kills, but loud pipes and trespassing kills nobody. Sounds pretty convincing on the surface. If we’re going to moan and complain, why not moan and complain about behavior that gets riders killed? 

We could easily spend our entire efforts in this column talking about the problems so many areas are having with drinking alcohol and riders going too fast. In a single day there were five riders killed in Michigan, and in a single weekend five more died in Wisconsin. Yes, these areas had some really good snow and there were a huge number of riders out putting on miles so the exposure was much greater, thus the argument to educate riders to not drink and ride and to slow down is very important. Too many people are going way too fast for the conditions and distance they can see, losing control of their machine and hitting things or going off a corner and crashing. One day saw three riders getting a medivac helicopter ride in a single county in the U.P. of Michigan, not good. 

Clearly common sense wasn’t handed out in equal amounts as we continue to have riders crash into each other, with head-on collisions killing both riders. It happens, more often than we would like to admit. Again, going too fast, riding on the WRONG side of the trail, being intoxicated, these are usually the factors in such incidents. Slow down, stay sober, ride right. Pretty simple. 

So yes, these kinds of behavior need to be addressed. We feel like we’re talking about these safety items and subjects quite often, to the point our readers should be well-educated as to the hazards and risks. Out west the more common cause of death is avalanche, and while we have made great strides in rider education and carrying the right gear the past several years we continue to hear of multiple deaths each year involving experienced riders, those who did take the training, those who were carrying the right gear. While many slides are being avoided, sometimes riders are in the wrong place at the wrong time, or make poor decisions. And sometimes it just gets the best of their judgment and they get caught. 

Sometimes referred to as the victimless offenses, we come back to the subjects of loud pipes and trespassing on private land. These two are closing trails and causing snowmobile clubs major headaches in having to re-route trails to less suitable locations – roadsides, road ditches, railroad grades, or worse yet – all out closure. All it takes is one landowner who has been disrespected one too many times to revoke their permission and that trail could forever be closed. Sometimes it takes years to secure a new route, clear the path, sign it and make it a viable option. Sometimes it never does reopen.

Areas where the groomed trail network relies on large amounts of private land are most vulnerable. The land owners do not want to hear the stupid-loud sleds all day long, or all night long. They don’t want their horses or cattle exposed to the non-stop barrage. Often times it amounts to knowing when to keep quiet. Like, if you’re in a residential area keep your noise down, don’t be a damn hot dog. But no, some snowmobilers want to be the tough guy and show off how much noise they can make. 

Or, when the trail gets bumpy they ride outside of the groomed trail and onto the fresh snow with no tracks, smooth and virgin. There are often multiple signs indicating this is PRIVATE LAND and to STAY ON TRAIL, but snowmobilers seemingly are not capable of reading English. Really? You know what we mean. They all see and read the signs – and they ignore them. Snowmobilers ignore the signs put up by the hard-working club members, disrespecting the clubs, the trails, the land owners and the sport. Quite frankly, they do not care if that trail is open or closed next year. Idiots? Clearly. 

As they say, united we stand – divided we fall. If we, as a user group, don’t clean up our act then others will step in and clean it up for us, and it won’t be in a good way. Be it the private land owners, increased enforcement, government regulators passing new laws and speed limits, or increased public pressure to get our act together to stop the killing, it will happen. Again, the choice is ours. Speak up and shut down those you ride with who are offenders – drinking, crazy speeding in the wrong place, stupid loud pipes, trespassing. We’re being watched and our future depends on how or if we can handle this on our own, or not.

Managing Editor – Kevin Beilke

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The article is being shared all over the Facebook and I also read it. Looks like the issue is not local to Ontario. Sad to hear of all the deaths in Michigan.

 

Jerry

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Blake beat me to it.

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1 hour ago, polarispete said:

The same type of off trail riders who think they are out West are having many miles of trails closed for their actions> I agree, all the advertising for the Manufacturers show the majority of their sled touting deep snow and off trail riding! Its these riders along with their obnoxious aftermarket exhausts along with the off trail riding that will slowly kill this once great sport for all of us.

Not sure what the others have for their display sleds in the spring shows, but BRP has more or less been ignoring the trail sleds. I recall seeing the '16 Blizzard in the spring of 2015 & thinking that was the only sled I'd be interested in. Did they have a Blizzard @ last year's show in Barrie?

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11 hours ago, Blake G said:

https://www.snowtechmagazine.com/the-enemy-within/?fbclid=IwAR3QvsGpilU-6FD9i5xMHgCEBm9reWMKSrxMzSQYF4BhG7Ni_3jK9DNT13g

 

FROM SNOWTECHMAGAZINE.COM

Having been involved in the sport for over 50 years now, we’ve seen the growth and rapid rise to fame of snowmobiling and are now witness to what could very well be our demise. Over the years we’ve fought and conquered many battles, from government emissions regulations to rising fuel prices to restrictive land use policies, but these could very well pale in comparison to our current number one enemy – and all we have to do to find it is look in the mirror. 

That’s right snowmobilers, take a look in the mirror to find the current cause of fear and demise of having places to ride our beloved snowmobiles. We are truly our own worst enemy. We could very well be the main cause of the decline of our sport.

For the past several years we’ve been warning you and talking about a couple of subjects that are having a negative impact on our sport, both in terms of riding areas but also in the eyes of the general public and our image as a user group in general. Perhaps you know where we’re going with this, because we’d like to think those of you reading this are not the problem and that we’re preaching to the choir, so to speak.

There are several elephants in the room. Loud exhaust pipes and trespassing on private land are two of them. All one has to do is read some of the colorful commentary on social media to see how so many snowmobilers do not understand the importance of these two subjects to get a glimpse of why it has become such a problem. Many snowmobilers evidently think it is their right to make as much noise as they damn well please, and they think they are doing no harm by cutting across open field and riding outside the groomed portion of a trail when it suits them. 

Of course, these riders will use all kinds of logical arguments to support and bolster their positions, claiming riders drinking alcohol is a bigger problem or that riders going too fast kills, but loud pipes and trespassing kills nobody. Sounds pretty convincing on the surface. If we’re going to moan and complain, why not moan and complain about behavior that gets riders killed? 

We could easily spend our entire efforts in this column talking about the problems so many areas are having with drinking alcohol and riders going too fast. In a single day there were five riders killed in Michigan, and in a single weekend five more died in Wisconsin. Yes, these areas had some really good snow and there were a huge number of riders out putting on miles so the exposure was much greater, thus the argument to educate riders to not drink and ride and to slow down is very important. Too many people are going way too fast for the conditions and distance they can see, losing control of their machine and hitting things or going off a corner and crashing. One day saw three riders getting a medivac helicopter ride in a single county in the U.P. of Michigan, not good. 

Clearly common sense wasn’t handed out in equal amounts as we continue to have riders crash into each other, with head-on collisions killing both riders. It happens, more often than we would like to admit. Again, going too fast, riding on the WRONG side of the trail, being intoxicated, these are usually the factors in such incidents. Slow down, stay sober, ride right. Pretty simple. 

So yes, these kinds of behavior need to be addressed. We feel like we’re talking about these safety items and subjects quite often, to the point our readers should be well-educated as to the hazards and risks. Out west the more common cause of death is avalanche, and while we have made great strides in rider education and carrying the right gear the past several years we continue to hear of multiple deaths each year involving experienced riders, those who did take the training, those who were carrying the right gear. While many slides are being avoided, sometimes riders are in the wrong place at the wrong time, or make poor decisions. And sometimes it just gets the best of their judgment and they get caught. 

Sometimes referred to as the victimless offenses, we come back to the subjects of loud pipes and trespassing on private land. These two are closing trails and causing snowmobile clubs major headaches in having to re-route trails to less suitable locations – roadsides, road ditches, railroad grades, or worse yet – all out closure. All it takes is one landowner who has been disrespected one too many times to revoke their permission and that trail could forever be closed. Sometimes it takes years to secure a new route, clear the path, sign it and make it a viable option. Sometimes it never does reopen.

Areas where the groomed trail network relies on large amounts of private land are most vulnerable. The land owners do not want to hear the stupid-loud sleds all day long, or all night long. They don’t want their horses or cattle exposed to the non-stop barrage. Often times it amounts to knowing when to keep quiet. Like, if you’re in a residential area keep your noise down, don’t be a damn hot dog. But no, some snowmobilers want to be the tough guy and show off how much noise they can make

Or, when the trail gets bumpy they ride outside of the groomed trail and onto the fresh snow with no tracks, smooth and virgin. There are often multiple signs indicating this is PRIVATE LAND and to STAY ON TRAIL, but snowmobilers seemingly are not capable of reading English. Really? You know what we mean. They all see and read the signs – and they ignore them. Snowmobilers ignore the signs put up by the hard-working club members, disrespecting the clubs, the trails, the land owners and the sport. Quite frankly, they do not care if that trail is open or closed next year. Idiots? Clearly. 

As they say, united we stand – divided we fall. If we, as a user group, don’t clean up our act then others will step in and clean it up for us, and it won’t be in a good way. Be it the private land owners, increased enforcement, government regulators passing new laws and speed limits, or increased public pressure to get our act together to stop the killing, it will happen. Again, the choice is ours. Speak up and shut down those you ride with who are offenders – drinking, crazy speeding in the wrong place, stupid loud pipes, trespassing. We’re being watched and our future depends on how or if we can handle this on our own, or not.

Managing Editor – Kevin Beilke

 

For some reason, maybe its the way I try and dig into the problem but this is what I have been trying to convey with almost every single post I make here. The moment we upload the responsibility of our community to a gov't authority? Its all over. The only reason snowmobiling as we know it is a success is because of community efforts WITHOUT relying on any government or regulations beyond our own good sense and respect for the land we ride on.

 

With every cop on patrol, every ticket, charge or any kind of NON SLEDDER attention to our sport? We lose something. We lose BIG time with public image as people who dont sled think sledding is a bunch of "insert insulting adjective of choice"

The goal is to simply become as invisible as possible to these non sledding peoples and bureaucracies as possible. In order to do so we must work on the lost mind within our own communities before the lost minds run the community into a total loss. Again, IMO the problem is reaching these idiots by starting some simple, respectful dialogue. It all begins with respect and it can build from there. A lecture or any punitive efforts will only drive more nihilism and feed their egos by entrenching them as the trolls they are. Not many of these clowns are completely isolated so everyone knows one or two. Help them, to HELP US, by just including them in some simple conversation and look for ways to respectfully impart some responsibility to their actions. Think of these ones as the kids who have been given the belt one too many times and more belt only makes them more criminal in nature.

 

I'll probably get thrashed for suggesting this again but its the only way to CURE the problems. Its all in their heads

 

 

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You cannot simply convert the "frig the police" mentality with a conversation, any more than you can reverse a brain injury by picking up the dropped baby.

Certain segments of the population need to be contained.

I do believe the entities tasked with enforcement need to step up. Or step down.

If the "mud trucker" segment decided to use highway medians for their warped entertainment, it wouldn't last until the end of the day. 

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10 hours ago, manotickmike said:

You cannot simply convert the "frig the police" mentality with a conversation, any more than you can reverse a brain injury by picking up the dropped baby.

Certain segments of the population need to be contained.

I do believe the entities tasked with enforcement need to step up. Or step down.

If the "mud trucker" segment decided to use highway medians for their warped entertainment, it wouldn't last until the end of the day. 

The mud truckers use snowmobile trails instead....

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