Mandatory Groomer Operator Retirement

[Big Pete]

4 hours ago, zoso said:

Temporary workers have zero expectations to be re hired and have no legal grounds to be. 

I agree they should have no expectations or legal grounds to be hired. But they do have expectations and legal grounds that they are not discriminated against for any reason.

 

[cravesledding]

I have a few employees 65 to 77 years of age and I can tell you that the knowledge that they pass down to todays generation is priceless, not to mention

their work etthics appose to todays younger peoples work ethics.(That's a whole different topic and I will leave it at that). If this fellow is still capable and willing and does the job right why force him out. 

[Wildbill]

1 minute ago, cravesledding said:

I have a few employees 65 to 77 years of age and I can tell you that the knowledge that they pass down to todays generation is priceless, not to mention

their work etthics appose to todays younger peoples work ethics.(That's a whole different topic and I will leave it at that). If this fellow is still capable and willing and does the job right why force him out. 

  True I wonder if he did not "offend" someone with a truth bomb

 

[catinental couch]

34 minutes ago, Wildbill said:

  True I wonder if he did not "offend" someone with a truth bomb

 

Again I have used too many "likes".

[Blake G]

27 minutes ago, catinental couch said:

Again I have used too many "likes".

 

That's the Christmas Spirit.

[02Sled]

1 hour ago, cravesledding said:

I have a few employees 65 to 77 years of age and I can tell you that the knowledge that they pass down to todays generation is priceless, not to mention

their work etthics appose to todays younger peoples work ethics.(That's a whole different topic and I will leave it at that). If this fellow is still capable and willing and does the job right why force him out. 

The massive loss of knowledge business is facing with so many retiring is a real concern for those businesses that are paying attention. A friend of mine has been a marine mechanic for about 40 years. His boss told him some time ago to basically stop doing hands on repairs himself and focus on educating the younger mechanics. So much is learned from hands on experience.

[bbakernbay]

Just read a great article about Canada’s 3rd richest person, Jim Pattison whose wealth is estimated at $4.65 billion.  He is 90 years old and works 365 days a year.  He recently drove across prairies visiting his John Deere dealers.  He takes a sleeping blanket to sleep in his Dodge Laramie if he can’t get to a cheap motel for overnight.  His mantra to his dealers is “Tell me how I can help you and I will”

 

I agree age is not the deciding factor, especially an arbitrary number like 77 or whatever.  Older Volunteers are the heart and soul of organized snowmobiling.

 

Nevertheless, there is a time to step back and that is not always an easy decision.  Most Clubs have had to deal with a similar issue, it not easy but needs to be done with compassion and thoughtfulness.  Easy to say, many times harder to do.

[02Sled]

17 minutes ago, bbakernbay said:

Just read a great article about Canada’s 3rd richest person, Jim Pattison whose wealth is estimated at $4.65 billion.  He is 90 years old and works 365 days a year.  He recently drove across prairies visiting his John Deere dealers.  He takes a sleeping blanket to sleep in his Dodge Laramie if he can’t get to a cheap motel for overnight.  His mantra to his dealers is “Tell me how I can help you and I will”

 

I agree age is not the deciding factor, especially an arbitrary number like 77 or whatever.  Older Volunteers are the heart and soul of organized snowmobiling.

 

Nevertheless, there is a time to step back and that is not always an easy decision.  Most Clubs have had to deal with a similar issue, it not easy but needs to be done with compassion and thoughtfulness.  Easy to say, many times harder to do.

Lots of older people with lots of wisdom and vitality left.

 

https://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/4649530-founder-and-former-ceo-of-husky-breaks-ground-on-40-m-vaughan-expansion/

 

Four years ago at 85 this guy was starting a new business

[Baylaker]

3 hours ago, 02Sled said:

Lots of older people with lots of wisdom and vitality left.

 

https://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/4649530-founder-and-former-ceo-of-husky-breaks-ground-on-40-m-vaughan-expansion/

 

Four years ago at 85 this guy was starting a new business

Never too late!

[AceRacer]

Sigh,

I rarely post on this forum, but everyone is overlooking the obvious.

This has zero to do with discrimination and has everything to do with INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

 

I guarantee that the actuaries at the insurance co's have determined that age 77 is the "sweet spot" where liability costs attributed to groomer operators spike, and becomes cost prohibitive to the clubs and too high of a risk to the insurance companies.

 

 

 

 

[revrnd]

On 12/24/2018 at 9:19 AM, bbakernbay said:

Just read a great article about Canada’s 3rd richest person, Jim Pattison whose wealth is estimated at $4.65 billion.  He is 90 years old and works 365 days a year.  He recently drove across prairies visiting his John Deere dealers.  He takes a sleeping blanket to sleep in his Dodge Laramie if he can’t get to a cheap motel for overnight.  His mantra to his dealers is “Tell me how I can help you and I will”

 

I agree age is not the deciding factor, especially an arbitrary number like 77 or whatever.  Older Volunteers are the heart and soul of organized snowmobiling.

 

Nevertheless, there is a time to step back and that is not always an easy decision.  Most Clubs have had to deal with a similar issue, it not easy but needs to be done with compassion and thoughtfulness.  Easy to say, many times harder to do.

The Paudash club had 2 older groomer operators retire (on their own decision). They were approached & had decided it was time to hang up the keys.

 

I hope in the situation that the OP has posted that the club or district has a competent replacement or this decision could bite them in the ass.

 

Now if they have been having problems w/ steps being neglected or poor practices involved, that is a whole different matter & any efforts to relieve the person should be done properly.

[lastzrt]

Very much a possibility. We ran into the same thing using retirees for Dealer trade drivers in the new vehicle business.  After 77 yo they just become too expensive to insure.

[lastzrt]

Just now, lastzrt said:

Very much a possibility. We ran into the same thing using retirees for Dealer trade drivers in the new vehicle business.  After 77 yo they just become too expensive to insure.

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Posted 40 minutes ago

Sigh,

I rarely post on this forum, but everyone is overlooking the obvious.

This has zero to do with discrimination and has everything to do with INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

 

I guarantee that the actuaries at the insurance co's have determined that age 77 is the "sweet spot" where liability costs attributed to groomer operators spike, and becomes cost prohibitive to the clubs and too high of a risk to the insurance companies.

 

[lastzrt]

OOPS. Time to step away from the keyboard. Christmas cheers to all!

[Big Pete]

1 hour ago, AceRacer said:

Sigh,

I rarely post on this forum, but everyone is overlooking the obvious.

This has zero to do with discrimination and has everything to do with INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

 

I guarantee that the actuaries at the insurance co's have determined that age 77 is the "sweet spot" where liability costs attributed to groomer operators spike, and becomes cost prohibitive to the clubs and too high of a risk to the insurance companies.

 

 

 

 

Funny. I have been involved with my club and district for 10 years now. Never have we had any requirement to provide ages of groomer operators to the OFSC let alone the insurance underwriter. So exactly how are the premiums being impacted?

 

the only thing in place right now is the mandatory on-line groomer training program. However I believe a lot of Districts are trying to put grooming/employment policy in place and are struggling with all the legislative requirements. 

[Yukon]

Club/District dirty laundry issue which I hope can be aired in private. No need for it to be aired on a forum or facebook for that matter. It opens up a whole new laundry list of speculation. I dont believe this to be a insurance or liability issue. 

 

Many districts just require a yearly driver's abstract to become a contracted groomer op..

[bbakernbay]

2 hours ago, AceRacer said:

Sigh,

I rarely post on this forum, but everyone is overlooking the obvious.

This has zero to do with discrimination and has everything to do with INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

 

I guarantee that the actuaries at the insurance co's have determined that age 77 is the "sweet spot" where liability costs attributed to groomer operators spike, and becomes cost prohibitive to the clubs and too high of a risk to the insurance companies.

 

 

 

 

I think you are wrong in that assumption or assertion.

[Greggie]

Forced retirement is possible, I am volunteer fire fighter, all full time fire fighters need to retire at 60 years, volunteer at 65 years. There are volunteer fire fighters at 64 years old and in better shape then full timers at 50 years. 

In my opinion, it’s not about age, I would suggest that as long you have your driver license, you can drive a groomer.

 

 

[02Sled]

1 hour ago, Greggie said:

Forced retirement is possible, I am volunteer fire fighter, all full time fire fighters need to retire at 60 years, volunteer at 65 years. There are volunteer fire fighters at 64 years old and in better shape then full timers at 50 years. 

In my opinion, it’s not about age, I would suggest that as long you have your driver license, you can drive a groomer.

 

 

Maybe where you are. Not all. A friend of mine is over 60 and with Toronto fire. Perhaps it's part of a contract they sign when hired where you are. 

[Wildbill]

Provincially 70 is the recognized age for forced retirement of a firefighter. It is unreal how young some 70 year olds look and act 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

1 hour ago, Greggie said:

Forced retirement is possible, I am volunteer fire fighter, all full time fire fighters need to retire at 60 years, volunteer at 65 years. There are volunteer fire fighters at 64 years old and in better shape then full timers at 50 years. 

In my opinion, it’s not about age, I would suggest that as long you have your driver license, you can drive a groomer.

 

 

I don't understand why a drivers license should be the determining factor. There are lots of people with drivers licenses that shouldn't be driving a car let alone a groomer.

[bbakernbay]

43 minutes ago, Wildbill said:

Provincially 70 is the recognized age for forced retirement of a firefighter. It is unreal how young some 70 year olds look and act 

And Premier Doug wants to appoint his long time family friend to be OPP Commissioner at the young age of 72!

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

18 minutes ago, bbakernbay said:

And Premier Doug wants to appoint his long time family friend to be OPP Commissioner at the young age of 72!

No Brian he had nothing to do with the hiring process. He told us so LOL. 

[02Sled]

53 minutes ago, bbakernbay said:

And Premier Doug wants to appoint his long time family friend to be OPP Commissioner at the young age of 72!

Age is a number... I know many people in their 70's that are far beyond many much younger when it comes to intellect and energy. Heck there are an awful lot of 20 and 30 year olds that are just plain stupid. You know... the guys that hand somebody their drink and say watch this everybody. Then seriously hurt themselves.

[02Sled]

37 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

No Brian he had nothing to do with the hiring process. He told us so LOL. 

Guilty because you said so... how about waiting for the review. Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty. You do realize he has to sign off on whoever gets approved for the position don't you?