Port Loring - Trail Closure Possible

[Bryan XC700]

This a link to Argyle Snowriders Facebook page in Port Loring. They have a very unhappy land owner because people can't stay on the trail through one of their fields. Just want to get the word out about this. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stay on the dam trail!!!

 

https://www.facebook.com/ArgyleRidersSnowmobile/

[gobills]

Man when are these idiots going to stop.  This is brutal.

[Domino]

Problem is that the people who don't respect our trails are not typically on OC.com.  

 

If only we could fix stupid...

[hancop]

they probably don't have permits either, and unfortunately the owner will still probably have these idiots riding on his property once we lose access

[Viperules700]

same problem every where it seems. I bet it is out of town riders most likely from gta, or Barrie. If trail closes they don't care, since they will just go some where else. 

[Crow]

1 hour ago, Viperules700 said:

same problem every where it seems. I bet it is out of town riders most likely from gta, or Barrie. If trail closes they don't care, since they will just go some where else. 

Easy VR, don't assume that. Riders from the GTA or Barrie can't be everywhere can they? Some could be those in search of open trails.

My money would be on the riders local or relatively local to these areas. They know the short cuts and make the first tracks, then others start to follow. Many don't know, or know and don't care and they are everywhere.

I wish the ones that do make the short cuts or travel outside the pickets for reasons only known to them, would start putting up the trail markers because obviously they know where the trail should be.

[catinental couch]

18 hours ago, Domino said:

Problem is that the people who don't respect our trails are not typically on OC.com.  

 

If only we could fix stupid...

We can fix stupid. Unfortunately it is permanent and the consequences could be quite harsh.

[crispy]

The area has been problematic for a few reasons. There is a group of nature loving anti tech type that cant stand any motorized fun, period. Theres a bunch of private people who moved there to live in peace and quiet far from city noise. Then theres the tourism fans, who support our cause. They lobby hard to get the trails in the Loring area accessible and open for us and there have been a ton of changes over the years due to off trail use as well as water crossing difficulties towards Restoule especially.

 

With this winter being limited? Try and keep the go lever under control near cabins/homes etc and stay on trail.

Locals do tend to go wherever so a track laid doesnt mean thats a go route. Cant please everyone, what can ya do we're all in this together

[zoso]

It really is a shame we have a few that risk ruining it for so many. Especially up there, there is plenty of crown land to ride off trail. Absolutely no excuse. I would love to see fines increased to a min of $1000 for trespassing on an ATV or sled. The pressures of ever increasing land development, lack of snow, and tight budgets are all slowly killing trail riding, the last thing we need is sledders killing it too. Any adult that buys a kid a sled has to take responsibility to teach the young people that it is a gift to us from the land owners, whom get nothing in return. If my kid was ever trespassing on private property she would lose her sled.

[02Sled]

The other concern that will cause us to lose trails are those that have this need to "sound cool" and put cans on their sleds. Riding in proximity of someone's home especially in the evening or early morning going braaap braaap will lose us a trail just as quickly if not quicker than the person going off trail

[crispy]

I encourage decency and respect everywhere and try to set an example of such. No ones perfect, we all have done things unbecoming. I do not support increased policing, increased fines or any such growth of government intervention in our lives. That well is over full, broke, and hell bent on controlling the lives of the citizens rather than serving the needs of the people.

 

Plus young people need time to grow up, and should not be expected to never make a mistake. Talking and thinking in absolutes has brought Western civilization to its knees

 

 

[wrightonalan]

1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

The other concern that will cause us to lose trails are those that have this need to "sound cool" and put cans on their sleds. Riding in proximity of someone's home especially in the evening or early morning going braaap braaap will lose us a trail just as quickly if not quicker than the person going off trail

cant agree more,should be a law against it.hate cans

[02Sled]

There is a segment of riders which have a distinct sense of entitlement. I will ride where I want, when I want and if I want a loud can so be it and *(&^ anyone who tries to tell me differently. I have seen snow fence put up in an effort to keep people on trails and riders have pushed down and ridden over the fence to "play" in the untracked snow. A trail that runs through a municipal park which is a multi-season multi-use trail within 50 feet of urban residences. Signs tell you the trail is closed during the night yet people ignore those signs. How dare anyone tell me when I can ride. I paid for my permit. Then you have those who choose not to pay for a permit and steal from those that do.

 

These people ride with impunity. Without an increased presence to enforce the laws that are already in place these entitled individuals will continue to disregard those laws that simply don't apply to them. A slap on the wrist mini fine will not have any impact. A substantial enough fine that it has more impact than a Saturday night of drinking with your friends would likely have a more lasting effect. i.e. Ride without a permit $1000.00. Something tells me you would only do that once. If you were a repeat offender you either have way too much money or there is something fundamentally wrong with your thinking process.

 

[02Sled]

7 minutes ago, wrightonalan said:

cant agree more,should be a law against it.hate cans

There is.... MSVA says it's illegal to modify the exhaust system on the sled.

 

Here is the wording from the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act and Set fine.

Muffler in working order

18. (1) No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle unless it is equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation and no person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle which has a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon the motorized snow vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (1).

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative. R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

Set fine:
Improper muffler
Section 18(2) MSVA
$85.00 plus Victim fine surcharge

 

This is a prime example where the fine is just not enough of a penalty. $85.00 is nothing for most of these people. Think about how much they spent to put it on in the first place. Make the fine $750.00 and people may think twice about how badly they want to "sound cool" with that hey everybody look at me effect.

[wrightonalan]

i got pulled over once on trail because my buddys numbers fell off on one side.as he was giving him a ticket ,a sled with a very loud pipe came by and the cop waves him by .i lost it on him and said thats why trails are closing down .he told me i was just mad because my friend was getting a ticket

[02Sled]

7 minutes ago, wrightonalan said:

i got pulled over once on trail because my buddys numbers fell off on one side.as he was giving him a ticket ,a sled with a very loud pipe came by and the cop waves him by .i lost it on him and said thats why trails are closing down .he told me i was just mad because my friend was getting a ticket

Silly question but how did his numbers fall off.... I've never seen or heard of that happening.

[wrightonalan]

just the one side ,it didnt stick ,maybe too cold,both our sleds were brand new at the time.i had a big problem getting mine to stick on my 2016 too.skidoo lower panels are no smooth ,so they dont stick well.Had to use some super glue

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

46 minutes ago, wrightonalan said:

just the one side ,it didnt stick ,maybe too cold,both our sleds were brand new at the time.i had a big problem getting mine to stick on my 2016 too.skidoo lower panels are no smooth ,so they dont stick well.Had to use some super glue

I know what you mean. The large factory decals on my side panels are staring to come off. the finish on the side panel is not smooth. Tough to keep decals attached to an  non smooth surface. The other thing is that the surface needs to be warm, clean and free of any oily film for the decal to stick properly.

[02Sled]

6 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I know what you mean. The large factory decals on my side panels are staring to come off. the finish on the side panel is not smooth. Tough to keep decals attached to an  non smooth surface. The other thing is that the surface needs to be warm, clean and free of any oily film for the decal to stick properly.

I guess I've been lucky.... the custom numbers were applied to our two sleds when we pulled them off the trailer in Coldwater on a cold January day. They didn't have any "polish" on them and it was a clean smooth surface. Sticking numbers decals onto a decal already in place or anything textured isn't something that appeals to me.

[crispy]

Been sledding my whole life. Land owner usage negotiations have always been delicate, this is not a new problem and it is no more prevalent today than it was in the 90's, in fact its much smaller its only a "big" issue because of the reach of social media/internet blowing every little local concern into a Province wide debate when in years gone by no one would hear about it. I could tell all sorts of tales of bridges literally being set on fire and burnt to the ground yet the OFSC carried on strong and the Police impact was local, and only to task of said crimes. Not mass sweep big policy, bif power shifts etc.

Soon as cops get big new sleds and STOP programs began? Sledding has declined year on year since.

 

Even more proof when the sled industry grew and peaked in the mid to late 90's? There were no speed limits per se, certainly no tickets. Cops rode Safaris, and policed for safety... Bracebridge was one of the biggest and best destinations to ride until the first Radar gun showed up near the Canadian tire in 2000 iirc. Look at Bracebridge now... what a fall it has taken since the 90's overall and all time with increased policing too I might add. That applies to the entire town and not just sledding. My belief is, if someone goes looking for problems? Thats all your going to find. Police these days literally search for problems, and invent them when they cant find them.

 

 

Proof is in the pudding. Regions with little to no police? Live good, happy, and respect one another. Areas with a Cop on every corner? Take a look at downtown Baltimore, theres your future.

 

 

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

11 minutes ago, crispy said:

Been sledding my whole life. Land owner usage negotiations have always been delicate, this is not a new problem and it is no more prevalent today than it was in the 90's, in fact its much smaller its only a "big" issue because of the reach of social media/internet blowing every little local concern into a Province wide debate when in years gone by no one would hear about it. I could tell all sorts of tales of bridges literally being set on fire and burnt to the ground yet the OFSC carried on strong and the Police impact was local, and only to task of said crimes. Not mass sweep big policy, bif power shifts etc.

Soon as cops get big new sleds and STOP programs began? Sledding has declined year on year since.

 

Even more proof when the sled industry grew and peaked in the mid to late 90's? There were no speed limits per se, certainly no tickets. Cops rode Safaris, and policed for safety... Bracebridge was one of the biggest and best destinations to ride until the first Radar gun showed up near the Canadian tire in 2000 iirc. Look at Bracebridge now... what a fall it has taken since the 90's overall and all time with increased policing too I might add. That applies to the entire town and not just sledding. My belief is, if someone goes looking for problems? Thats all your going to find. Police these days literally search for problems, and invent them when they cant find them.

 

 

Proof is in the pudding. Regions with little to no police? Live good, happy, and respect one another. Areas with a Cop on every corner? Take a look at downtown Baltimore, theres your future.

 

 

Off trail riding on private property causing landowner issues is certainly more of an issue than it was I daresay any time in the past. All you have to do is watch the sled marks outside the stakes and the trails that are on roads that used to be on private property. We see more evidence about it because of social media, no doubt about that.

[crispy]

In my opinion and experience there was substantially more off trail riding in years gone by. Trappers alone made enough bush trails to ride ten times over what the OFSC offered back when. What I see is a transition of perspective combined with an increase in sensitivity. There are some people who are sensitive who without keyboard warrior courage would not have a platform nor the courage to speak out. Whats worse is speaking out or calling out or whining about literally anything these days wins some sort of PC award and we are in a full tilt social meltdown of civic order. Social standards are being improved, I am not suggesting these discussions are without benefit, I am suggesting that the governments position to stick their over paid, under funded, fat face in every single discussion and create new law, rules, fines, and punishments for whatever angle brings home the most bacon? Is a major issue and one that I do not support in any fashion whatsoever.

 

Why? I have lived among a community where the closest police station was hours away, and the closest hospital even further. We took care of ourselves, dealt with the exact same issues that everyone does; life and death and everything in the middle and we managed just fine without Government intervention ( natives too were happy there ) and even more importantly. I have never seen nor experienced a more happy living than back then in those financially piss poor times. Why? Because we had community, and we had tolerance, and we understood that no matter how much we preached about this that or the other? Mistakes would happen. Some that even led to death.

 

Such is life. No one gets out alive, its how we share our time together that defines us.

 

Now if Police looked at the rest of us and thought; How can I make these people have more fun and help them improve the economy so my pension is secure instead of in utter jeopardy due to unpayable debt crisis brought on by selfish greed? We might be onto something. Ontario is the most indebted province or state in the entire world. Our economic well being is worse than Greece and bordering on Venezualla

 

And every single snowmobile, ATV, Boat and car you see spinning around our Province funded by Privately earned dollars? Is beneficial to that end. Every single Police, or gov't job drawing upon that private sector? Is now cancer, killing all of us by the death of a thousand paper cuts

 

 

 

 

[zoso]

3 hours ago, 02Sled said:

The other concern that will cause us to lose trails are those that have this need to "sound cool" and put cans on their sleds. Riding in proximity of someone's home especially in the evening or early morning going braaap braaap will lose us a trail just as quickly if not quicker than the person going off trail

Absolutely. I forgot about that one, but it is almost as bad if not worse than the trespassing. We all know how sled friendly Quebec is, they even have signed trails on sidewalks in large towns so we can ride to hotels. Look at the Mont Tremblant area. There was major trail issues there due to noise. When residents complain, the politicians act. Police in Ontario now enforce decibel levels on bikes using a meter. The same could be done on sleds, with high fines and expensive towing off trail and then impound the sled until the fine is paid or the courts have decided the case. We all here know as housing gets developed closer to the trails we still have complaints will follow and then the inevitable will come, closures. I see sledding in the south as a large privilege that we need to protect. The vast majority of people in cities do not care at all, and as the demographics in rural areas close to cities changes, we see that same mind set moving in and asserting their voice against power sports.  Governments like regulation and even though I am hesitant to ask for more, I can clearly see if we do not encourage policing on this issue, it is just one more nail in the coffin.

[zoso]

7 minutes ago, crispy said:

In my opinion and experience there was substantially more off trail riding in years gone by. Trappers alone made enough bush trails to ride ten times over what the OFSC offered back when. What I see is a transition of perspective combined with an increase in sensitivity. There are some people who are sensitive who without keyboard warrior courage would not have a platform nor the courage to speak out. Whats worse is speaking out or calling out or whining about literally anything these days wins some sort of PC award and we are in a full tilt social meltdown of civic order. Social standards are being improved, I am not suggesting these discussions are without benefit, I am suggesting that the governments position to stick their over paid, under funded, fat face in every single discussion and create new law, rules, fines, and punishments for whatever angle brings home the most bacon? Is a major issue and one that I do not support in any fashion whatsoever.

 

Why? I have lived among a community where the closest police station was hours away, and the closest hospital even further. We took care of ourselves, dealt with the exact same issues that everyone does; life and death and everything in the middle and we managed just fine without intervention and even more importantly. I have never seen nor experienced a more happy living than back then in those financially piss poor times. Why? Because we had community, and we had tolerance, and we understood that no matter how much we preached about this that or the other? Mistakes would happen. Some that even led to death.

 

Such is life. No one gets out alive, its how we share our time together that defines us.

 

Now if Police looked at the rest of us and thought; How can I make these people have more fun and help them improve the economy so my pesnion is secure instead of in utter jeopardy due to unpayable debt crisis brought on by selfish greed? We might be onto something. Ontario is the most indebted province or state in the entire world. Our economic well being is worse than Greece and bordering on Venezualla

 

And every single snowmobile, ATV, Boat and car you see spinning around our Province funded by Privately earned dollars? Is beneficial to that end. Every single Police, or gov't job drawing upon that private sector? Is now cancer, killing of us by the death of a thousand paper cuts

 

 

 

 

I think what we are seeing is a demographic change in rural areas. Either subdivisions are built, or people want some space and bring a city mindset to the rural areas. with this comes new issues where none were prior. Can we as sledders police ourselves? I think there is substantial proof we cannot. The people on this board are not the issue, so yes, many of us can ride, have a blast, and not act in a manner that upsets people. perhaps if police focused more on a type of enforcement that helped the sport we would see better results with the laws and enforcement numbers we have already. Policing blind hills, corners, and the stake line across a field planted with winter wheat might go a long way. what do we see, radar on railbeds, cruisers sitting at road crossings, and nazi style paper checks in muskoka on a saturday afternoon. 

[slomo]

34 minutes ago, zoso said:

I think what we are seeing is a demographic change in rural areas. Either subdivisions are built, or people want some space and bring a city mindset to the rural areas. with this comes new issues where none were prior.

New house, not on a lake, but on the AR500 trail in Port Loring area passed it today....