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Am I "Part of the Problem"


AdamGamble

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Ok here we go. I am 28, ride a 800,137" sled with a 1.75 lug, I ride sitting and standing. I do not use a back pack or have a Mohawk helmet (lol). I love to ride trails and I love to ride off trail. I keep my off trail riding to hydro/gas corridors, crown land or fields of people I know or friends who know and have permission. I have on occasion made mistakes, but I'd like to think that each year as I get older I get wiser and make better decisions and gain more respect. I feel as though this type of on trail off trail riding (which is what absolutely dominates the snowmobile sales market) is creating a major divide in the sport. Is there any talks or ideas happening at the club level or even the ofsc level to come up with any ideas to service this relatively newer idea of on/off trail riding. Wawa seems to have taken the bull by the horns and turned a other wise sore spot into a profitable buissness model. Not many things I love more than this sport and I don't like to think of myself as part of the issue, but Am I Part of the Problem? 

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Problem and opportunity can be two sides of the same coin.

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I do not think that wanting to go off-trail is a problem.  Its where you decide to do that.  It sounds like you are not interfering with Private Land Owners, so that is good.

 

The real issue occurs when riders decides that the farmers field is just too tempting.  Off-Trail riding on private land thats use has been graciously donated by a private land owner is a huge problem.

 

 

 

 

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It doesn't sound like you are part of the problem. The minor contributory factor may be when others that don't distinguish the difference between private property and crown land see your tracks on perhaps that hydro corridor. They simply see that as acceptance of riding off trail in general. In an area with limited opportunity to legitimately go off trail those who don't or won't acknowledge private property then see that pristine farmers field without tracks and a couple of feet of fluffy snow and equate their right to ride the farm field with the right to ride the hydro corridor.

 

On a side note, this past weekend I saw more people with Mohawk brushes on their helmet than ever before. Kind of reminds me of

 

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I don't get why everyone feels the clubs/OFSC should be trying to obtain, insure and most likely regulate areas for people to off trail ride, isn't enough we already go to the lengths we do to provide trails  ? IMO the last thing we need is to be caretakers of an even more risky segment of the sport.  If people want to off trail ride they can find their own places and even start their own club or business doing it, as has been done in Wawa, where they have lots of crown land that allows motorsport access, with variable terrain and snow amounts that fits the bill.  

 

Adam it's up to the rider to insure they are not trespassing, so if as you said you've made mistakes then yes you are part of the problem, or at least were if you have truly learned from those mistakes.  The 150hp sled with a 1.75 paddle track on trail isn't doing any favors in keeping grooming costs down or in helping establish a sturdy long lasting trail base ...... sorry man but you asked for opinions. 

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15 minutes ago, gobills said:

Sounds like your looking for resaurance here about riding a large paddle track on trail.  

 

Imo ofsc should have no part in off trail stuff.  

Just looking for solutions or at least get the conversation going. Too often I find everyone just exploding on people like myself with out knowing the facts. Love the sport, just want to see it progress not regress. 

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I would echo Nutter and gobills. As a club volunteer that puts in literally 100's of hours every year I have neither the time, the energy nor the desire to organize off trail riding. If somebody wants to take it on, get the land use permissions, the liability insurance and then figure out how to pay for it, be my guest. With all the issues we are dealing with inside the OFSC, if this becomes a strategic focus I am done. 

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Totally agree about it progressing.  It's going to be hard given the changing dynamic of sleds in general.  Also all of the advertisements(all manufactures) and shows(snowtrax) show every rider hanging off the side of their sled on ever corner.  So in some way I blame them but it's all on the rider in the end how they drive the sled.

 

I think there needs to be sanctioned off trail riding area set out in the province.  Designated by the government haha good luck right!!!

 

I see it changing and then this will give the new snowbikes  a great area to go and play.

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32 minutes ago, Nutter said:

I don't get why everyone feels the clubs/OFSC should be trying to obtain, insure and most likely regulate areas for people to off trail ride, isn't enough we already go to the lengths we do to provide trails  ? IMO the last thing we need is to be caretakers of an even more risky segment of the sport.  If people want to off trail ride they can find their own places and even start their own club or business doing it, as has been done in Wawa, where they have lots of crown land that allows motorsport access, with variable terrain and snow amounts that fits the bill.  

 

Adam it's up to the rider to insure they are not trespassing, so if as you said you've made mistakes then yes you are part of the problem, or at least were if you have truly learned from those mistakes.  The 150hp sled with a 1.75 paddle track on trail isn't doing any favors in keeping grooming costs down or in helping establish a sturdy long lasting trail base ...... sorry man but you asked for opinions. 

Appreciate your opinion. 10 years ago a 1 inch lug was big. Now a 1.25 is standard/small and 1.35 is normal. I agree that as of now it is up to the rider and rider alone to insure himself his machine and where he is riding is not trespassing. What I am saying is this sport can and will change in the upcoming years with the market that has being totally taken over by on off trail machines. Why not embrace this change plan for it, get ahead of it. Your example of Wawa is perfect. Yes most clubs especially south of Algonquin have a limited amount of land like this, but northern Ontario is full of it. Why not

promote this new way of riding in Ontario. I just like to have open conversations with open minded people. Not closed minds, closed doors and closed ears. Honestly thanks for the response no need to say sorry this is a healthy conversation that I feel needs to be happening to save this sport. 

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32 minutes ago, gobills said:

Imo ofsc should have no part in off trail stuff.  

 

Agreed. 

 

However, hearing rumblings that some northern clubs prefer this ('destination sledding') as opposed to touring sledding. It keeps more tourist $ in a particular town, as opposed to spread across a touring rider's typical day (250 km). 

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1 minute ago, Big Pete said:

I would echo Nutter and gobills. As a club volunteer that puts in literally 100's of hours every year I have neither the time, the energy nor the desire to organize off trail riding. If somebody wants to take it on, get the land use permissions, the liability insurance and then figure out how to pay for it, be my guest. With all the issues we are dealing with inside the OFSC, if this becomes a strategic focus I am done. 

Thanks for your volunteering time, if I have rode where you help I appreciate it emmensily, but that's a terrible response. Very "I'm going home and taking my ball too" i get it it's not for everyone. 

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4 minutes ago, gobills said:

Totally agree about it progressing.  It's going to be hard given the changing dynamic of sleds in general.  Also all of the advertisements(all manufactures) and shows(snowtrax) show every rider hanging off the side of their sled on ever corner.  So in some way I blame them but it's all on the rider in the end how they drive the sled.

 

I think there needs to be sanctioned off trail riding area set out in the province.  Designated by the government haha good luck right!!!

 

I see it changing and then this will give the new snowbirds a great area to go and play.

Now your talking 

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5 minutes ago, Canuck said:

 

Agreed. 

 

However, hearing rumblings that some northern clubs prefer this ('destination sledding') as opposed to touring sledding. It keeps more tourist $ in a particular town, as opposed to spread across a touring rider's typical day (250 km). 

Canuck, appreciate your input. Seeing what Wawa has done, I can see a lot of northern Ontario towns doing something similar. What I am talking about almost can't happen at all in southern/central Ontario this is a northern Ontario idea I think for the most part and I feel everyone can benefit from it. 

 

 

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In his defense hes right about this being a huge segment, we all enjoy the trails and pay for the the permits, so if there is an opportunity to grow the sport and provide a safe place to do so then why not?  There seems to be a sense of ownership with some of the old timers of the sport, that they completely frown on anything other than trail riding, Im a trail only guy myself but would be lying if I said i didn't enjoy watching off trail stuff ( it looks like a blast and a **it ton of work) theirs a place for everything and everything has its place!

 

PS:  Nutter not to call you out but Im sure your 130hp 600 is also over kill none of us are riding 50hp sleds from 1970 anymore the paddle may be a little much though.

Just my 2 cents! dont be offended thats not my intention!

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15 minutes ago, Canuck said:

 

Agreed. 

 

However, hearing rumblings that some northern clubs prefer this ('destination sledding') as opposed to touring sledding. It keeps more tourist $ in a particular town, as opposed to spread across a touring rider's typical day (250 km). 

Sanctioned riding areas could become a huge business in the future.  I totally agree I like saddlebag touring,but I also like going back to the same hotel and being able to explore what one certain area has to fully offer.

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2 minutes ago, gobills said:

Sanctioned riding areas could become a huge business in the future.  I totally agree I like saddlebag gong but I also like going back to the same hotel and being able to explore what one certain area has to fully offer.

Another gem, we just did 5 nights in cochrane and had a blast. 

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Paddle size can be an issue but whats worse. Someone using a 1.75 paddle that is smooth on the throttle or someone with a 1.25 paddle that pins it every opportunity? Yes the bigger paddle can do more damage but the rider is still the one who's squeezing the throttle.

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4 minutes ago, gobills said:

Sanctioned riding areas could become a huge business in the future.  I totally agree I like saddlebag gong but I also like going back to the same hotel and being able to explore what one certain area has to fully offer.

A park like Haliburton forest but for boondockin with some trails would be sweet!

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You've made some valid points Adam and I can appreciate where you are coming from. I chose to buy a sled with a 144 inch track but also went with the 1.35 lug track as for all intents it really is enough for trail riding and playing in the powder. I also enjoy the off trail riding but there's a place for it and I honestly don't mind travelling to do so. The Northern Corridor and Wawa certainly have done a great job with the marketing of that.  I would never ever go off the stake lines in southern Ontario as as we've seen this year the reprocussions it's had and will likely get worse as the reality is the snow bikes is something that isn't going away and will also need to be dealt with.  We've all made mistakes I certainly have but as long as your are man enough to admit it and ensure it doesn't repeat itself then lesson learned.

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4 minutes ago, horshackk04 said:

 

A park like Haliburton forest but for boondockin with some trails would be sweet!

They sure get enough snow there.  Everything is there and set up already.   

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3 minutes ago, Nunz said:

You've made some valid points Adam and I can appreciate where you are coming from. I chose to buy a sled with a 144 inch track but also went with the 1.35 lug track as for all intents it really is enough for trail riding and playing in the powder. I also enjoy the off trail riding but there's a place for it and I honestly don't mind travelling to do so. The Northern Corridor and Wawa certainly have done a great job with the marketing of that.  I would never ever go off the stake lines in southern Ontario as as we've seen this year the reprocussions it's had and will likely get worse as the reality is the snow bikes is something that isn't going away and will also need to be dealt with.  We've all made mistakes I certainly have but as long as your are man enough to admit it and ensure it doesn't repeat itself then lesson learned.

Agreed Nunz, time and place 100% and the farm fields of southern Ontario is neither lol.

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6 minutes ago, horshackk04 said:

 

A park like Haliburton forest but for boondockin with some trails would be sweet!

Now that sounds like a dream come true lol. Actually feel like a park like Halliburton would do this, they log out big open swats of land in there. 

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52 minutes ago, AdamGamble said:

Thanks for your volunteering time, if I have rode where you help I appreciate it emmensily, but that's a terrible response. Very "I'm going home and taking my ball too" i get it it's not for everyone. 

The real problem AG is that every time I hear the agruemeng that off trail riding needs to be embraced and we need to change, it seems they want someone (aka The OFSC or clubs) else to do the work. If you want to develop off trail riding into a new segment then step up and get it organized and stop wanting someone to do it for you. Admittedly I don't know s lot about the off trail riding set up in Wawa, but it seems there might already be s model to follow. 

 

As to taking my ball home that's my privilege as a volunteer. I don't know your involvement with a club, etc and I will not make any assumptions. But when you look at all the issues currently being dealt with within the OFSC and the limited resources available to deal with them, putting new strategic directions on the radar would be a distraction and take resources away from the current issues. 

 

I really do do wish somebody or group can get off trail riding set up in a meaningful way. Hopefully it would help reduce some of the issues the trail riding community is dealing with. 

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People ride off trail all the time. We don't need the OFSC to get involved to make it so that people know where to ride and where not to ride. They already tell people to stay on the trail.

 I suppose we could ask them to post more signs for areas that are not privately owned and its OK to ride where ever you want, but will they be able to get the insurance to cover that?

On the pipelines and corridors, are the people/ governments responsible for the land, OK with people riding all over it? Who is liable for anything that happens?  

Maybe there could be another pass/ group for people to buy to cover the extra insurance that is required, but i can't see how it could be implemented.

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