Giddy UP Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 23 hours ago | Vote0 0 "Gut-wrenching" decision closes Burk's Falls snowmobile trail Business and tourism affected Snowmobile Trail Closure The trail from Emsdale north to Pickerel Lake won't be reopening this winter due to "impossible terrain." Almaguin News By Andrew Mendler ALMAGUIN — Burk’s Falls and Katrine are now inaccessible by snowmobile. RELATED STORIES Main snowmobile route into Powassan... Unseasonably warm weather and a lack of funding has forced the Almaguin District Snowmobile Club to shut down multiple snowmobile trails throughout the region. In past years, a thick base of snow has helped cover up rough, rocky patches along the local trails. A lack of snow and warmer temperatures over the past few weeks has exposed many of these rocky spots and made trails unsafe to travel. “We don’t have the money to put thousands of dollars into grooming these trails,” said club vice president Rob Rickward. “There is no funding from the Ontario Government, the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs has given us zero dollars and investing club money into a trail that crosses private property, which landowners could close down, is not really feasible.” Trail ADSC 306 through Burk’s Falls and ADSC 305 (near Three Mile Lake) will both not be reopening this year “due to impossible terrain,” according to a statement posted on the club’s website. “The 306 trail will not be opened from Emsdale right through to Pickerel Lake because there are spots in it that we just can't do anything with at the present time,” said Rickward. “But we are trying to get some of the trails reopened again. We are attempting to get around some of the bad spots." A one-kilometre stretch between Pickerel Lake and Jack Lake has rocks and needs work. Another stretch of trail west of Woods Road is also rocky and troublesome, as is a portion near Ferguson Road. Some landowners have closed gates to these trails and snowmobile trail signs have been removed. “We understand that this will be a huge burden on business and sledders in these areas but we have absolutely no choice other than to close them. Safety and liability is a huge factor,” continued the statement on the website. “It’s gut-wrenching,” said Rickward. “This area depends on these trails.” Armour councillor Pay Hayes, who also owns the gas bar in downtown Burk’s Falls, brought the issue up at council on Jan. 24, wondering if the municipality could do anything to help. “We are not going to give the club money but is there anything we can do as a municipality to help the club out?” Asked Hayes. “While I didn’t own (the gas station) last year, the guys who work there have said it wasn’t uncommon to fuel over 200 sleds, and we are fuelling none right now.” After a brief discussion, council decided to have staff take a look to see if there are any road allowances which could possibly serve as an alternative route for sections of the trail. The municipality will also be researching to see if there are any grants available to help fund the grooming work that needs to be done. “This does affect the businesses and it does affect tourism,” said Hayes. “Very rarely do (snowmobilers) just come in for gas. Normally you’d see them at Dee’s Restaurant, you’d see them at Al’s Diner and in the field at Tim Hortons. It is giant what is not here this year.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giddy UP Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Arrrgh!not sure how to fix this post. Help please! I tried to copy link from North Bay Nippising news and it looks like it got screwed up can one of the Admins fix it? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I would have my doubts that none of the transfer money from OFSC got to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 When I read this I'm not sure how to take it. There are some points which are as clear as a bell. No snow, rocks sticking up and safety being a paramount concern, I don't think anyone can dispute. In past years, a thick base of snow has helped cover up rough, rocky patches along the local trails. A lack of snow and warmer temperatures over the past few weeks has exposed many of these rocky spots and made trails unsafe to travel. “We don’t have the money to put thousands of dollars into grooming these trails,” said club vice president Rob Rickward. Maybe it's wording or interpretation but if there isn't enough snow to cover the rough rocky patches what is the point of even trying to groom trails that won't be safe. I don't understand the comment about not having the money to put thousands into grooming. If the terrain is that bad and so little snow should you even consider trying to groom. I know of lots of trails with similar challenges. Too much water or rock outcroppings to make it feasible to groom until there is cold weather to firm up the terrain and enough of the right type of snow to pack down, fill in the holes and cover up the rocks. Welcome to much of Muskoka. I know my local club trails aren't open and those were the biggest concerns. Water and rock causing safety issues. “There is no funding from the Ontario Government, the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs has given us zero dollars and investing club money into a trail that crosses private property, which landowners could close down, is not really feasible.” I could be wrong but I thought there were opportunities to apply for grant money from the province. Perhaps they weren't aware of this. I can't understand how they say the OFSC hasn't given them any money. Did they not sell any permits? If they had snow to groom one would think there would be permit money from the district level under More On The Snow to pay for grooming. Am I wrong? As for investing club money into a trail that crosses private property not being feasible because the landowner could close it down. I'm not buying into that in any way. If that was the approach every club took then there wouldn't be many trails left. Enormous amounts of our trail system rely on the landowners allowing our trails to cross their property. It is truly disappointing the club has to close the trails for the rest of the season but it is the reality of the weather we are facing everywhere. The locally owned and operated small gas station in my area is suffering like I am sure others are. On a normal winter Saturday or Sunday there would be a steady stream of snowmobilers in there for not only gas for their sleds but also having lunch and or breakfast in their restaurant. The other part I'm not sure makes sense is the concept that the trails are closed for the rest of the season. If the weather became and stayed cold and the Georgian Bay snow machine kicked into overdrive then kept pumping snow why could the trails not be reopened? I am sympathetic to the club wanting to open and keep open the trails but they are not the only ones suffering this year and they at least have some nearby trails that are rideable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuyuna Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I am not an expert on the inner politics of clubs / vs OFSC, etc., but with all the trail closures, vague government land legislation / reactionary fears, bad weather, snowmobile manufacturer uncertainty, and ................. ? Just getting a deep down sick feeling about the health of the sport in Ontario. But one thing is for certain, I'll be one of the last guys still running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown corner Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 That clubs problem starts where the groomer stays. Never used to be a problem that in that area... now the trails that were once great don't want to be done for some reason or another. Jmo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nith Valley Sledder Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 How is their situation any different than any other club in the province? If there isn't enough snow to make the trail safe to open then it stays closed until such time as there is enough snow. Maybe the local businesses suffering due to lack of snowmobile traffic will open their eyes. Instead of taking the gravy off the club volunteer's labour maybe they should consider dumping some of their profits into the local club to help fix the situation. I have a hard time feeling sorry for the local chamber of commerce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I wonder why it isn't the club president making the statement. To me, a statement of this magnitude should be made by the club president. I am also disappointed like many at what the statement says and confused on its meeting. My GUESS is that he means that if we don't have the normal snow amounts then there needs to be a lot of trail building work done to make those trails groomable and that the OFSC doesn't have any money for trail building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuyuna Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: I wonder why it isn't the club president making the statement. To me, a statement of this magnitude should be made by the club president. I am also disappointed like many at what the statement says and confused on its meeting. My GUESS is that he means that if we don't have the normal snow amounts then there needs to be a lot of trail building work done to make those trails groomable and that the OFSC doesn't have any money for trail building. Remember the OTBA ? (Ontario Trail Builders Alliance) I started the sport in an OTBA club and I remember the great disappointment by the OTBA people during the great amalgamation. I think we have lost the spirit from those days - (just my own humble opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 34 minutes ago, Cuyuna said: Remember the OTBA ? (Ontario Trail Builders Alliance) I started the sport in an OTBA club and I remember the great disappointment by the OTBA people during the great amalgamation. I think we have lost the spirit from those days - (just my own humble opinion) I would agree with your observation. Not sure though that the OTBA and the one or two other major associations of the day would have made it this far on there own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowowl Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 With 306 closed, I would assume trail 706 to Magnetawan will also close as it becomes a dead end. It is a shame to see these closures in one of the few areas south of Hwy 17 that consistently gets snow even in bad snow years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 11 hours ago, 02Sled said: When I read this I'm not sure how to take it. There are some points which are as clear as a bell. No snow, rocks sticking up and safety being a paramount concern, I don't think anyone can dispute. Your statements all make sense from a logical point of view 02, but I am reading the club's discourse as emotion based - tired, worn out, pissed off, ignored at the club level by the 'upper' levels, unappreciated. If the OFSC doesn't start surveying and aquiring permanent trail access through municipal and provincial controlled land for a permanent trail system, more of this will happen. The OFSC is failing as a foundation structure preferring to spend money and time on the 'glamour' aspects of the sport (another 8 years of snowtrax magazine and their buddies) rather than a lobbying for a sense of permanance such as established for the park systems and the canal systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 16 minutes ago, slomo said: Your statements all make sense from a logical point of view 02, but I am reading the club's discourse as emotion based - tired, worn out, pissed off, ignored at the club level by the 'upper' levels, unappreciated. If the OFSC doesn't start surveying and aquiring permanent trail access through municipal and provincial controlled land for a permanent trail system, more of this will happen. The OFSC is failing as a foundation structure preferring to spend money and time on the 'glamour' aspects of the sport (another 8 years of snowtrax magazine and their buddies) rather than a lobbying for a sense of permanance such as established for the park systems and the canal systems. Does Snowtrax cost us money or give us money. The magazine needs to sell advertising and in order to do that you need circulation numbers. What better way to get circulation than to send copies to permit buyers. Perhaps they actually pay ofsc for access to the permit buyer information for those that tick the box on the permit form. Easy to sell advertising when you can quote numbers of readers a year ahead since those that tick the box this year don't see the magazine until next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 29 minutes ago, 02Sled said: Does Snowtrax cost us money or give us money. The magazine needs to sell advertising and in order to do that you need circulation numbers. What better way to get circulation than to send copies to permit buyers. Perhaps they actually pay ofsc for access to the permit buyer information for those that tick the box on the permit form. Easy to sell advertising when you can quote numbers of readers a year ahead since those that tick the box this year don't see the magazine until next year. I mention snowtrax as they are (officially) marketing the sport from the point of view of the manufacturers of sleds and related equipment (who according to them)are emphsizing the 'off trail' related part of sledding ('opinion' pieces in the last 4 magazines) and ignoring everything else related to the problems currently surrounding the trail system. Each has its place....the Wawa - Dub area should be applauded for their 'Secret Boondocking Area' initiative and the Cochrane run to 'the Canyon' also caters to the off trail crowd. I couldn't give a damn if snowtrax is costing money - they are the wrong organization at the wrong time. But as I noted at the time of them getting the OFSC marketing contract - “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.” George Orwell - Animal Farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 26 minutes ago, slomo said: I mention snowtrax as they are (officially) marketing the sport from the point of view of the manufacturers of sleds and related equipment (who according to them)are emphsizing the 'off trail' related part of sledding ('opinion' pieces in the last 4 magazines) and ignoring everything else related to the problems currently surrounding the trail system. Each has its place....the Wawa - Dub area should be applauded for their 'Secret Boondocking Area' initiative and the Cochrane run to 'the Canyon' also caters to the off trail crowd. I couldn't give a damn if snowtrax is costing money - they are the wrong organization at the wrong time. But as I noted at the time of them getting the OFSC marketing contract - “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.” George Orwell - Animal Farm. Now I understand your perspective and agree about their promotion of people going off trail as "the way of the future" it it is articles like those, pictures of people coming over the crest of a hill in the middle of the trail and becoming air borne that encourage people to do the same. The result, trails are loaded with snowcross wannabes and idiots that feel entitled to run through that private property farmers field ignoring the signs telling them to stay on the trail or it will be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 We use to ride up there for over 20 years, It is very up setting to see this area struggle. If we would have rented in Katrine again we would have been sorta stuck for joining up unless we ran the roads or taken the lake. Frankly it has stopped me from taking a more serious look at a real estate opportunity there. The old D123 and Bobs way trail were great rides. Real shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hate to see this happen to any club but there has to be more to the story than is being reported. We have heard from the club and I would love to hear from the District / OFSC but I know we never will. As I understand trail funding, Top trails and connector trails qualify for TDF funding but club trails do not. However if a club trail is part of a major tourism loop it may qualify for funding under TDF. Clubs have to fund all club trail improvements themselves from permit and/or fundraising dollars. There are hoops to jump through for TDF funding but they are not insurmountable and hopefully the District Office would assist the club with completing the paperwork. As to equalization funding reaching the club, only the District can answer that since all equalization funds are directed there and then they fund the clubs. (Not sure where D7 is in terms of implementing MOTS but they are merging with another district so this may be a complicating factor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Almaguin is in District 11 (North Bay) and is adjacent to Districts 7 and 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I don't know if this is exactly the case with these particular trails but in that area and many others the trail base has been destroyed by the atv's using the same trails during the off season. Maybe there needs to be a way to get the atv clubs to establish their own trail system to preserve the established snowmobiling trail system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 24 minutes ago, Daves said: I don't know if this is exactly the case with these particular trails but in that area and many others the trail base has been destroyed by the atv's using the same trails during the off season. Maybe there needs to be a way to get the atv clubs to establish their own trail system to preserve the established snowmobiling trail system. Or work with the ATV clubs rather than maintaining an adversarial relationship. Many of our club trails are ATV trails in the summer and some are shared use. We have a strong partnership with them. They have in fact done a lot of work and spent a lot of money to significantly improve the trails we have a common interest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 28 minutes ago, Blake G said: Almaguin is in District 11 (North Bay) and is adjacent to Districts 7 and 10. Thanks for the correction Blake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Quote In past years, a thick base of snow has helped cover up rough, rocky patches along the local trails. A lack of snow and warmer temperatures over the past few weeks has exposed many of these rocky spots and made trails unsafe to travel. “We don’t have the money to put thousands of dollars into grooming these trails,” said club vice president Rob Rickward. “There is no funding from the Ontario Government, the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs has given us zero dollars and investing club money into a trail that crosses private property, which landowners could close down, is not really feasible.” Trail ADSC 306 through Burk’s Falls and ADSC 305 (near Three Mile Lake) will both not be reopening this year “due to impossible terrain,” according to a statement posted on the club’s website. “The 306 trail will not be opened from Emsdale right through to Pickerel Lake because there are spots in it that we just can't do anything with at the present time,” said Rickward. “But we are trying to get some of the trails reopened again. We are attempting to get around some of the bad spots." A one-kilometre stretch between Pickerel Lake and Jack Lake has rocks and needs work. Another stretch of trail west of Woods Road is also rocky and troublesome, as is a portion near Ferguson Road. So if the snow conditions had been good would the closures have been necessary? Are they closed because of land owner issues? Have they been closed due to funding? I think all clubs have trails that are marginal unless we get LOTS of snow. Some years I've seen trails in my area remain closed all season because we didn't get enough snow/cold weather to allow grooming. I think the article/VP has stirred several issues into 1 pot. As one posted, there's probably more to the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskoka Man Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Daves said: I don't know if this is exactly the case with these particular trails but in that area and many others the trail base has been destroyed by the atv's using the same trails during the off season. Maybe there needs to be a way to get the atv clubs to establish their own trail system to preserve the established snowmobiling trail system. Have a quick look on the Algonqiun atv website you will see pics of the club presenting checks to the sled clubs from their rallys ,also pics of mini excavators ditching out wet spots ,the two clubs in that area work together for sure, which is not the case in a lot of areas,too bad really ,here in bracebridge and port sydney area the two are sworn enemies and always will be im sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I wasn't sure about the relationship. It's great that the two can work together. 51 minutes ago, Muskoka Man said: Have a quick look on the Algonqiun atv website you will see pics of the club presenting checks to the sled clubs from their rallys ,also pics of mini excavators ditching out wet spots ,the two clubs in that area work together for sure, which is not the case in a lot of areas,too bad really ,here in bracebridge and port sydney area the two are sworn enemies and always will be im sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail Groomer Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I think it is important to realize that this is not really anyone's fault, Due to the many landowners who have graciously let there land be used for a snowmobile trail is not the issue here at this time the issue is that this trail has finally deteriorated to a point that there are areas that it is just not possible to get a groomer through anymore and due to the many landowners it would be impossible to get anymore than a short term agreement for the land use and never from all of them. One must realize that this is about a 30k piece of trail with at least 50 or more land owners and if even one sells or revokes the use Which has happened several times this year alone the trail will be closed as there are no more alternative routes. At this point everyone must understand that to spend 10s of thousands of dollars would be ludacris even if we had the money and we don't. We are no better or worse off than 90% of the clubs in the province and we do what we can to keep the trails open people must also realize that we can not afford to run a quarter of a million dollar groomer through trails that look like and resemble stone quarries with trees only inches away on either side and creeks running down the middle of the trail. We as a club have to be responsible to keep sledders and groomers and operators safe which we can no long do on this trail and that is why it is closed. Algonquin West ATV club and Almaguin District Snowmobile club have been working as partners on numerous KM of trails for many years and we both value our relationship regarding trails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.