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LOOKING FOR THE PERFECT CARBIDES!!! HELP!!!


Turbo Burgo

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Bought a brand Pro Cross Turbo Cat in the spring. Finally got a couple hundred miles on it and love it however the darting is nothing short of dangerous at speeds.

 

Now I have a big decision and a bit of an investment to make. The catch here is I want the best of all worlds... 

 

My criteria is as follows:

 

- Zero darting

- Zero loss of top speed

- Zero loss of fuel economy 

- Incredible cornering ability 

- Long lasting 

 

I'm considering the following but am open to suggestions...

 

- snow trackers

- bergstrom triple points

- qualipiece cobra heads. 

 

New skis aren't an option or in the budget. I'm currently running the stock cat skis and junk stock carbides.

 

My riding consists of 80% aggressive trail riding and 20% lake running. Zero off trail.

 

What works well on the pro cross turbos? What does everyone suggest? Has anyone tried all 3? Looking for real world experiences, stories and feedback, not Internet engineers! Lol

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Can't speak for ProCross Cats, but based on experience with my 'Doos over the last decade, here are my suggestions:

 

Bergstroms with shims, OR,

Shapers, OR, 

Snow Trackers

 

The Trackers worked the best for carving and eliminating darting, but are also the most expensive by far, and can be difficult getting across pavement (e.g. gas stations) and loading on trailers, depending on your trailer set-up.

 

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Shaper bars and they last!  But i do know the Snow trackers work. A buddy put these on his Nytro. Night and day difference on that sled. Pricey and they make crossing asphalt very difficult like "IR" said ...   

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Out of the box pair of Pilot skis with carbides down the center only cured my '16 Axys along with much reduced steering effort tossed in for good measure. Sled does exhibit a slight initial push in the corners but once you learn to trust them, rewarded with stellar performance no mater how hard you push em.  Put 130 miles on them yesterday, wish I'd changed the skis at mile one. Being as sled coasts noticeably better with them vs stock, suspect I'll pick up mileage and they have certainly not hurt top end speed (possible they could if you were to run 2 carbides on each)

I'll be going with a wear bar only on the outside of each just to protect the ski itself.

I know you said carbide option only but these are a very affordable option vs a big dollar pair of aftermarket skis.

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Worth noting, same trails / same sled on Tuesday sporting stock skis, darting exactly as you've described. Yes I'd previously confirmed ski alignment plus attempted to adjust via chassis set up. Front end bushings are fresh and tight, sled just turned 440 miles or so on the clock.

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I made a few pairs of Cobra Heads out of Woodys Executive 6" and a stainless front fork shoe (easy steer copy).  They work great on my T-Cat and Wildcat with factory plastic skis.  I now have an additional 2015 XF7000 LXR and will buy a pair of Cobra Heads for it when the OEM are worn out.  Also, I make a stainless keel plate to mount between the runner and the ski.  This eliminates the wear on the edges of the keel and makes the keel slightly deeper.  My riding buddies cannot figure out why they don't dart.  They are riding Skippy-Doo's with pilots and the XRS ski.  I find that to get the job done in most cases I have to manufacture my own solution.  Also cutting the rear of the executive shorter, the steering effort is reduced.

 

BP

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Wife has Qualipieces on her Cat ski's. Zero darting, light steering and much better turning than stock carbides. I have Bergstroms on shimmed Cat ski's Better than stock but I think the Qualipieces work better. If we had snow here in Haliburton I'd say come on up and try both to compare them. Wife and I are on aftermarket ski's now so the Cat ski's are just sitting in the garage.

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The perfect carbides? The ones you never take out of the package!! Sorry, I couldn't resist, I already beat the heck out of mine, reality of riding early.

 

Livin'

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Welcome to the site, RIVERMAN.

 

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3 hours ago, irREVerent said:

Can't speak for ProCross Cats, but based on experience with my 'Doos over the last decade, here are my suggestions:

 

Bergstroms with shims, OR,

Shapers, OR, 

Snow Trackers

 

The Trackers worked the best for carving and eliminating darting, but are also the most expensive by far, and can be difficult getting across pavement (e.g. gas stations) and loading on trailers, depending on your trailer set-up.

 

Ive never had trackers.  Just curious what makes them hard at gas stations and loading trailers??  Thanks

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Put a set of Bergstrom skegs on my 02 viper last season.  They worked great. The darting, which was scary, disappeared. 

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Snowtrackers will transform your sled  Risk the cash and try.  You won't 

be sorry

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I had trackers on my '14 ZR7000 and was not impressed. Yes, less darting and less steering effort but they gave up grip in the corners. I used Pilot 5.7's with 6 inch center carbide and 4 inch on the outside. A bit of darting, great grip when cornering but steering effort was greatly increased.

 

On my LXR9000 I'm using an offset carbide I bought from a Cat dealer and find its really the best compromise. No darting good grip in the corners (not the best) and medium steering effort.

 

I realize everyone thinks they have a magic formula but IMO bite in the corners means effort to turn the bars. I have yet to find any combo that offers great results in all aspects.

 

 

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I only use snowtrackers ,good were too ,made my vector rail 

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When I first got my sled, the darting was unpredictable and dangerous. After trying several different products, I've had great results with "aggressive" Snow Trackers on my modified 2009 TZ1 Turbo running a 144" track with 171 stud pattern. I run the stock skis. With the front end weight of the turbo, these are the only product that give confidence in all conditions, considering the power and speed this machine generates. I also shim the skis. This sled is on rails. There is no top speed scrubbing and the centre carbide is long lasting. Road and rail crossings have been no problem. I also use ski wheels for jockeying around gas pumps / restauarants, road running, but that is for convenience and saves the carbides. However,it is necessary to estimate just how much carbide length you really need according to your traction / weight setup. 

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Steering effort is affected to large extent by how long the bar is behind the spindle pivot.  The longer the bar, the more force is pulling the the skis straight right out of your hands.  If you trim the rear length with a zip cut blade and reduce the "caster lag", the high steering effort goes away.  You can trim almost any runner in this manner.  You don't just have to accept that the way they come out of the package is the way they have to be run.

 

BP

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I always found Woody's products, dually, slim jim's were great for darting issues but terrible for push.  Not being an aggressive rider that was ok with me most of the time.  I decided to try the Snowtrackers, the less aggressive model, and they took probably 70 to 80 % of the push out of the corners.  I do get a tiny bit of darting, hard to describe, but if Im going down straight trail I can feel almost like a small tick tock back and forth of the handle bars.  Someone told me to check ski alignment but it ended up being right on.  I have on occasion with the Snowtrackers had a couple instances where they almost had a mind of their own, and I feel I now must ride with a much tighter grip on the handle bars, not sure if anyone else has this type of experience or not....

All said and done, I still prefer the Snowtrackers.  As far as crossing roads or on pavement, ya I guess due to either the shape or the sharpness of the carbides, that must be why they grab to the pavement so well.  I haven't really had too many issues with that though, but I also run the wheels too.  

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27 minutes ago, shawnj said:

I always found Woody's products, dually, slim jim's were great for darting issues but terrible for push.  Not being an aggressive rider that was ok with me most of the time.  I decided to try the Snowtrackers, the less aggressive model, and they took probably 70 to 80 % of the push out of the corners.  I do get a tiny bit of darting, hard to describe, but if Im going down straight trail I can feel almost like a small tick tock back and forth of the handle bars.  Someone told me to check ski alignment but it ended up being right on.  I have on occasion with the Snowtrackers had a couple instances where they almost had a mind of their own, and I feel I now must ride with a much tighter grip on the handle bars, not sure if anyone else has this type of experience or not....

All said and done, I still prefer the Snowtrackers.  As far as crossing roads or on pavement, ya I guess due to either the shape or the sharpness of the carbides, that must be why they grab to the pavement so well.  I haven't really had too many issues with that though, but I also run the wheels too.  

 

There is a lot of contact area with the snowtrackers with the centre carbide runner in between the two steel glide runners. In warmer temps when the snow gets soft and mushy, the snow trackers become more intensified. That is what I think is happening when you say they "have a mind of their own." Every day conditions change and there is a need to constantly adapt. Personally, I prefer a little more occasionally than a little less. Shimming the skis is always a good idea.

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24 minutes ago, Cuyuna said:

Shimming the skis is always a good idea

I did have them shimmed with the woody's , but I bought a spare set of rubbers and left snow trackers  unashamed, as I thought that was what was suggested.  I will have to take a better look at them and see how they are wearing, as may have to add the shims back in. 

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Thanks for all the input everyone. Keep the feedback coming!

 

I had the aggressive snow trackers on my apex and it eliminated the darting and railed pretty good however I feel they sacrificed top speed and fuel economy. I also heard the snow trackers don't work as well on the cats as they do on the Yamahas. 

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I had a set of Snow Trackers on a 97 VMax and was very impressed. Can't see why you would be worried about a possible small decrease in speed as you only travel 20% on ice and if it's on a OFSC it still has a speed limit and how often can you really pin a new 1000 Turbo Cat?  I would take handling on a trail over top speed any day.

RW

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1 hour ago, shawnj said:

I always found Woody's products, dually, slim jim's were great for darting issues but terrible for push.  Not being an aggressive rider that was ok with me most of the time.  I decided to try the Snowtrackers, the less aggressive model, and they took probably 70 to 80 % of the push out of the corners.  I do get a tiny bit of darting, hard to describe, but if Im going down straight trail I can feel almost like a small tick tock back and forth of the handle bars.  Someone told me to check ski alignment but it ended up being right on.  I have on occasion with the Snowtrackers had a couple instances where they almost had a mind of their own, and I feel I now must ride with a much tighter grip on the handle bars, not sure if anyone else has this type of experience or not....

All said and done, I still prefer the Snowtrackers.  As far as crossing roads or on pavement, ya I guess due to either the shape or the sharpness of the carbides, that must be why they grab to the pavement so well.  I haven't really had too many issues with that though, but I also run the wheels too.  

When snotrackers are put on the Apex its is suggested to set the alignment to 0 degrees. This change is important.   http://www.snowtracker.com/getattachment/Default/This-is-to-be-read-very-attentively-before-installation-aggressive.pdf.aspx

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