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Etiquette Question


4mysled

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Common sense should prevail in a situation like this, if your worried about trails closing in an area that your riding before you are able to get to your destination or back to your trailer, it's time to think about changing plans. 

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I would think that if a trail closes during a trip, it is for a good reason.  There are many times that a trail is yet to open because of Bureaucracy that has nothing to do with Land Owners, Safety etc.  In this case, riding a closed trail happens (Reality).  If the trail is closed after it is opened, I would not be riding it for safety concerns or the possibility that we may lose the trail.

 

The first case is not a given, but speaking with the club may provide some insight.  

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Unfortunately the map isn't always accurate.  The local club (Snowcrest) said that some trails went limited yesterday afternoon.  The map hasn't changed yet.  So if some someone was looking to ride today it still shows closed.

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Unfortunately the map isn't always accurate.  The local club (Snowcrest) said that some trails went limited yesterday afternoon.  The map hasn't changed yet.  So if some someone was looking to ride today it still shows closed.

 

True , I came to a closed locked gate on a yellow marked trail a few days ago , that guide cannot be fully trusted .

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True , I came to a closed locked gate on a yellow marked trail a few days ago , that guide cannot be fully trusted .

 

Winterrules..... were there a bunch of cows in the field with the closed gate ??? I think we hit the same trail yesterday.

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Winterrules..... were there a bunch of cows in the field with the closed gate ??? I think we hit the same trail yesterday.

 

 

Yep that's the one middle yellow trail heading up towards Wolseley it's still yellow even now .

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Yep that's the one middle yellow trail heading up towards Wolseley it's still yellow even now .

 

Could it be a reroute and the Map does not reflect the true path?  Although I would think there would be plenty of signage to that effect....

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Could it be a reroute and the Map does not reflect the true path?  Although I would think there would be plenty of signage to that effect....

 

 

There's a huge yellow arrow on a tree showing that the trail turns left ( from my direction ) and at the end of that trail which crosses I think 2 fields is the closed gate . There's no other signage showing the trail going anywhere else . I just turned around and went back the way I came .  

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Landowner pulled the pin late yesterday due to Bill 100. Called club to take stakes down and closed gate. Didn't filter until this morning. Haven't heard how the negotiations went today

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There's a huge yellow arrow on a tree showing that the trail turns right ( from my direction ) and at the end of that trail which crosses I think 2 fields is the closed gate . There's no other signage showing the trail going anywhere else . I just turned around and went back the way I came .  

 

That sucks!  Hopefully the club will rectify the map issue ASAP.

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You can check it as often as you need to feel comfortable. I was just explaining the rules as I know them. You can like them or not, follow them or not. I really don't care. If you get charged for trespassing or speeding you have no reason to whine, just suck it up and take responsibility . It's a decision you made knowing the consequences. Remember, I believe your insurance is void on closed trails in the event of an incident.

Right on the ofsc website where you access the itg it clearly states that the itg is for reference only and can not be relied upon to be QN accurate guide to trails being open or closed. Sorry but noboby is checking trails as they travel. They will ride and only stop if they run out of snow.

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Reading online Bill 100 does not affect the land owners in any negative way , this Bill should not be causing all these issues as I see it . OFSC needs to get the word out to the land owners its crazy that it's come this far . If Bill 100 affected the land owners in any way the trails as we know it are done , the government likes money even they would not let that happen .

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Right on the ofsc website where you access the itg it clearly states that the itg is for reference only and can not be relied upon to be QN accurate guide to trails being open or closed. Sorry but noboby is checking trails as they travel. They will ride and only stop if they run out of snow.

 

"The Trail Status posted here is for general information only and does not necessarily reflect the Trail Status at the time of your ride or the actual local trail conditions you may encounter. The Trail Status is gathered from club volunteers and is valid only at the time of their observation. Their observations may not meet your expectations and the Trail Status may vary from the time of posting. The Trail Status may vary with changing conditions such as temperature, snow quality, type of terrain and usage. Please exercise caution at all times and be prepared for the unexpected. Remember that the snowmobile trail is providing you with an off road experience that has inherent risks, because it occurs in an unpredictable and uncontrollable natural setting, which demands constant rider preparedness, vigilance, caution, unimpaired reaction and smart choice. Trail signs are posted only for your convenience and there is no guarantee that they will be there at any given time due to wind, rain, storms or vandalism"

 

The above is from the ITG. Nowhere does it say it can't be relied upon to indicate the trails are "Open or Closed". I think you will find the OFSC interprets it as the trails conditions constantly change so "available" or "limited" will vary. It was explained to me, as part of the RM training, that the ITG is the master for open or closed trails as it is based on the most recent club trail status reporting. The ITG is/was updated twice a week per the guidelines but CAN be updated anytime if required. If an incident is reported the status of the trails at that time is documented based on the ITG. It may not be perfect but it is the best we have.

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Reading online Bill 100 does not affect the land owners in any negative way , this Bill should not be causing all these issues as I see it . OFSC needs to get the word out to the land owners its crazy that it's come this far . If Bill 100 affected the land owners in any way the trails as we know it are done , the government likes money even they would not let that happen .

 

Unfortunately you are the OFSC. It is up to the individual club members to reassure their landowners their land is safe. I've seen info coming from the office to the club members but it is up to them to pass it along. I've been doing it with my neighbor. I've passed him and another large landowner a number of articles indicating Bill-100 will not give anyone the opportunity to steal their land. From the info I have seen the OFA is in favor of the bill.

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"The Trail Status posted here is for general information only and does not necessarily reflect the Trail Status at the time of your ride or the actual local trail conditions you may encounter. The Trail Status is gathered from club volunteers and is valid only at the time of their observation. Their observations may not meet your expectations and the Trail Status may vary from the time of posting. The Trail Status may vary with changing conditions such as temperature, snow quality, type of terrain and usage. Please exercise caution at all times and be prepared for the unexpected. Remember that the snowmobile trail is providing you with an off road experience that has inherent risks, because it occurs in an unpredictable and uncontrollable natural setting, which demands constant rider preparedness, vigilance, caution, unimpaired reaction and smart choice. Trail signs are posted only for your convenience and there is no guarantee that they will be there at any given time due to wind, rain, storms or vandalism"

 

The above is from the ITG. Nowhere does it say it can't be relied upon to indicate the trails are "Open or Closed". I think you will find the OFSC interprets it as the trails conditions constantly change so "available" or "limited" will vary. It was explained to me, as part of the RM training, that the ITG is the master for open or closed trails as it is based on the most recent club trail status reporting. The ITG is/was updated twice a week per the guidelines but CAN be updated anytime if required. If an incident is reported the status of the trails at that time is documented based on the ITG. It may not be perfect but it is the best we have.

So how do you actually know if a trail is open or closed. If, as i hear, they are updated tuesdays and thursdays and you are rideing on the weekend, you don't actually know what the trail status is unless there are signs posted.
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So how do you actually know if a trail is open or closed. If, as i hear, they are updated tuesdays and thursdays and you are rideing on the weekend, you don't actually know what the trail status is unless there are signs posted.

 

It is up to you to check the ITG to see if the trails are open. Most clubs don't physically sign the trails closed as it is too much work. In the south it is even worse as the trails may open and close multiple times. The ITG doesn't usually change very often once the trails are open but this year is certainly abnormal.

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I'll say.

If there are going to be consequences for riding closed trails, I think there needs to be a black or white way to find out if the trail is open or closed.

I haven't been a pass holder (with a viable sled...) before this season, and I have yet to see a sign saying a trail is closed. Or open. I have NO desire to break rules, but with this season being what it is, I don't want to sit home, looking at an outdated website, only to find out trails were open, and BUSY.

I go by the ITG to see what's going on, then see that yellow status trails are closed, according to the club website that runs them. I was out a few nights ago, following the record snow dump, to find some trails open, ungroomed, and fairly busy. Others I later found out were closed, but no indication on the trail as it crossed from one club to another. They were JUST as busy. As far as I know, there was no way to find out what the status was.

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It is up to you to check the ITG to see if the trails are open. Most clubs don't physically sign the trails closed as it is too much work. In the south it is even worse as the trails may open and close multiple times. The ITG doesn't usually change very often once the trails are open but this year is certainly abnormal.

Rob, I don't agree that its too much work to sign the trails closed and change as necessary. It should be done and it works. I see a good # of people stop in front of our place in their vehicles  early season, late season and after mild spells who are obviously checking the trail closed sign status. I also see a lot of sleds ride right through the trail closed sign, some telling me they had seen no trail closed signs on their ride until I waved them down  even though I know they went by at least one in the last 5 km's. I have even had a club president lead 3 other riders around the cable(with plastic stakes on it) that was across the closed trail and continue on their ride.

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Rob, I don't agree that its too much work to sign the trails closed and change as necessary. It should be done and it works. I see a good # of people stop in front of our place in their vehicles  early season, late season and after mild spells who are obviously checking the trail closed sign status. I also see a lot of sleds ride right through the trail closed sign, some telling me they had seen no trail closed signs on their ride until I waved them down  even though I know they went by at least one in the last 5 km's. I have even had a club president lead 3 other riders around the cable(with plastic stakes on it) that was across the closed trail and continue on their ride.

People are going trespass and not much you can to stop them apart from gates and that isn't feasible. Our club made flip signs a few years ago but it still takes an hour or more to drive around and change them and we only have 32km of trail but lot of road crossings. Imagine the work for a club with 60-100 km of trail and a road crossing every 1-1/4 mile. It is unfair to expect a volunteer to spend that kind of time and gas money just because some rider is too lazy to do his due diligence before going riding.

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It is up to you to check the ITG to see if the trails are open. Most clubs don't physically sign the trails closed as it is too much work. In the south it is even worse as the trails may open and close multiple times. The ITG doesn't usually change very often once the trails are open but this year is certainly abnormal.

Checked the ITG today. Showed lots of trails were yellow or green. But you go on the forum and everyone says all the trails south of North Bay are toast. So how can you trust the ITG. I'm puzzled.
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Checked the ITG today. Showed lots of trails were yellow or green. But you go on the forum and everyone says all the trails south of North Bay are toast. So how can you trust the ITG. I'm puzzled.

No one has ever offered an official explanation (that I'm aware of) that explains how the trails are listed as red, yellow or green.  I have seen red trails that are better than green trails, as I'm sure many of you have.  I've also been on yellow trails that are far better than green, and green that absolutely suck.

 

Can anyone explain (officially) or is this privileged knowledge?

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Checked the ITG today. Showed lots of trails were yellow or green. But you go on the forum and everyone says all the trails south of North Bay are toast. So how can you trust the ITG. I'm puzzled.

South Seguins reports are accurate ,and we are grooming again 

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No one has ever offered an official explanation (that I'm aware of) that explains how the trails are listed as red, yellow or green.  I have seen red trails that are better than green trails, as I'm sure many of you have.  I've also been on yellow trails that are far better than green, and green that absolutely suck.

 

Can anyone explain (officially) or is this privileged knowledge?

 

 

And yellow that should be red .

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Can anyone explain (officially) or is this privileged knowledge?

I believe this was left up to the individual clubs to define when they reported their trail status. My personal opinion is a lot trails were reported as limited for reasons of the matrix. In a year like this there are a lot more limited trails just to give people a chance to get out. But I could be mistaken.

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The fact is, the itg is often not up to date, and I have seen trail closed signs that were not removed after a trail is open, so what does one do? I guess just not ride is the best way to be sure. The original question was, what does one do if they rode to a destination, and upon the ride back they encountered closed trails. Well I would have to assume a sign was put up if you did not do any checking after your ride out, so that would be a good indicator, however it may be a forgotten sign so the trail may be open. Most normal people will ride till they run out of snow if they are trying to return back to where they came from, even driving right by a closed trail sign to do so. And depending on circumstance, that may be the best thing to do.

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