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MOTS or MOTS II


Greggie

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I don't think it will be any different then anywhere else in the province, we do our worst trails Saturday night....there won't be a club in the system that can groom all their rough trails on a Saturday night.

As for making the calls on grooming and frequency, that will be up to your district, there is no mandate from BOG on this matter. As for d5, we have no desire to schedule grooming from a central location or group, we will however monitor frequency and make suggestions based off best practices. No one is trying to reinvent the wheel.....we just have to make it roll further with less money, lol.

Thanks for your services, volunteer hours and interest in the future of the sport.

Everything I type here is speculation and I am no way "in the know" hence the reason that my club will remain nameless. But, if we are required to drop a groomer there is no question in my mind which one it will be based on geographical location and terrain. This would leave 1 fairly critical 20km (one way) piece of club trail un-groomed from Thursday night to Monday night. Tough decisions will need to be made for sure. Routes will have to be re-written. Change is one of the only guarantees in life.

 

On the bold. That is what I was hoping / assuming. Some of the information on this site and others may lead some to believe that there will be someone in Barrie comparing groomer GPS and the OFSC trail guide dictating where we groom next rather than real word on the snow needs.

 

I am a volunteer minor hockey coach as well. I give the club what I can on top of grooming duties but after work and hockey it sure can be hard to find the time. I'm sue everyone that volunteers know the story.

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I think the operators paid or volunteer will enjoy working with new equipment. With the poor weather this year, should be some extra money In the system for clubs to get rid of one or two groomers and get into a new one. New equipment should be more comfortable to

operate, so doing about more km's of trail is

Feasible in most area's.

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Wildman,

If MOTS is only about reducing the groomer fleet and that will "SAVE" money explain me how this works.

A new groomer cost about $225,000 and by OFSC rules it need to be replace after 10 years or 5000 hours, the trade in value is about $50,000.
Sounds that reasonable? So the average amorisation is about $17,500 a year, right? On top of that you have maintenance and repairs. District 1 has almost the oldest groomer fleet in Ontario, average more then 10 years old. I know a club who has 2 MF4265 groomers, both from 1998 and their amortization included maintenance and repairs is less then $10,000 both together. Replacing both groomers with one new groomer cost double what it cost now. This example is for at least 75% of all the clubs in District 1. So reducing and replacing our groomer fleet will cost way more then what it cost now. Also if we reduce the groomer fleet from 45 to 29 and get the new groomers as "planned" in MOTS will never save money.

I don't know how this it for the other 16 districts but I don't think that reducing/ renewing the fleet will save the money. Also nobody knows where the money will come from next year new groomers. This year it was if I am right $4,000,000 and next year we need way more with the expensive USA $. I heard at least $6,000,000.

I don't think that reducing and renewing the groomer fleet will save money so we need to save the money somewhere else.....

Now comes the important question, how can we save more money? Reducing trails, for sure but it will also reduce permit sales. Other ideas?
Thanks
Greg

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Greggie, do you have access to OFSC Clubhouse resources website? The Board of Governors have released the More on the Snow Membership Update. You should probably check it out.

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Greggie, do you have access to OFSC Clubhouse resources website? The Board of Governors have released the More on the Snow Membership Update. You should probably check it out.

Well that report says a whole lot of nothing!

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Greggie, do you have access to OFSC Clubhouse resources website? The Board of Governors have released the More on the Snow Membership Update. You should probably check it out.

 

I did, not much details are given...

Thanks,

Greg

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The question is why is there no update with information for MOTS? Does the governors and or workgroup no new information? Hard to believe.... Why is everything at the OFSC so secret?

Thanks

Greg

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The question is why is there no update with information for MOTS? Does the governors and or workgroup no new information? Hard to believe.... Why is everything at the OFSC so secret?

Thanks

Greg

EVERYONE! Remember this EVERY time you read or post! MOTS was "passed in principle ONLY" "as presented" at OFSC AGM 2015. I have already heard that there have been changes to what we (the voting delegates with the voting authority) passed at OFSC AGM 2015. Keep a copy of the original MOTS documents with you as a reference. If history repeats, it will not matter WHAT we passed. Somehow what we pass at times gets changed mid stream without OUR (voting delegates) authority. We have all seen examples of this over the last few years. We are continuously reminded WE (voting delegates) make the decisions, so lets make sure this is the case!

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Very true, but no matter, as a group we are going to be looking at trimming the fleet and working more efficiently, and there is not one reason we shouldn't be, it never hurts to make the system work better. The numbers put forth are targets, very lofty ones. They are bound to change and I don't see how they can't, but a good start is decommissioning the junk that wastes permit dollars, and every district has them.

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NOTHING can be changed unless majority vote by BOG, remember that.

OFSC does not dictate what the clubs will do, BOG does albeit one a recommendation from OFSC staff.

 

The OFSC operates much the same as your local government.

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For sure money pits need to get parked. But there are lots of groomers older then 10 years old who cost way less then a newer groomer. Park them also, imo NO....

Thanks

Greg

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NOTHING can be changed unless majority vote by BOG, remember that.

OFSC does not dictate what the clubs will do, BOG does albeit one a recommendation from OFSC staff.

 

The OFSC operates much the same as your local government.

The BOG can NOT change the MOTS that  was "passed in principle ONLY" "as presented" at OFSC AGM 2015. This is why we wanted the motion OFSC / BOG was presenting at AGM ammended, to say that MOTS had to come back to AGM 2016 for the club delegates to vote on. IF we had NOT put in the ammendment, then YES the BOG could have approved any changes.  

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I just read the Report updating MOTS.

Nothing major will or can change this season other than the initial reduction of the junk groomers and the 'free' groomers being distributed.

I am pleased to see that the OFSC Head Office is looking at the District realignment and also developing policies and procedures for the new District wide grooming. This is essential if all Districts are to get on the same page. There is no value in Districts trying to come up with these P&Ps.

This is a considerable amount of work to be done and vetted by Committees and BofGovernirs.

Let's give them the time they need to develop a fully researched set of recommendations.

I agree with Greggie that the funding model needs more explanation.

Buying 16-20 new Groomers & Drags each year, paying Operators and District Grooming Managers and running the new equipment longer and harder has got to cost big $$$.

There is no indication yet as to how they propose to free up the 'supposed' big cash reserves in some Clubs and Districts. That will be interesting.

All in all, let's give them the time (and they will certainly need it) to flush out details prior to September. This is a major change that needs to be done right.

Remember they don't have a lot of personnel resources and the Committees and Governors are Volunteers like most of us so it takes lots of time.

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I just read the Report updating MOTS.

Nothing major will or can change this season other than the initial reduction of the junk groomers and the 'free' groomers being distributed.

I am pleased to see that the OFSC Head Office is looking at the District realignment and also developing policies and procedures for the new District wide grooming. This is essential if all Districts are to get on the same page. There is no value in Districts trying to come up with these P&Ps.

This is a considerable amount of work to be done and vetted by Committees and BofGovernirs.

Let's give them the time they need to develop a fully researched set of recommendations.

I agree with Greggie that the funding model needs more explanation.

Buying 16-20 new Groomers & Drags each year, paying Operators and District Grooming Managers and running the new equipment longer and harder has got to cost big $$$.

There is no indication yet as to how they propose to free up the 'supposed' big cash reserves in some Clubs and Districts. That will be interesting.

All in all, let's give them the time (and they will certainly need it) to flush out details prior to September. This is a major change that needs to be done right.

Remember they don't have a lot of personnel resources and the Committees and Governors are Volunteers like most of us so it takes lots of time.

It appears The District Standardization Policy and Procedures to Standardize District operations, being developed are for NON Incorporated Clubs (check it out). It was mentioned at OFSC that the preference is that Clubs remove their Incorporation. How many clubs are willing to give up their Incorporation? Time was spent at AGM 2015 about the benefits of not being Incorporated as a "Club", but NO TIME was spent presenting the negatives / concerns. SO, where is the HELP from OFSC Barrie for Clubs that wish to stay incorporated? A one way street is being paved with no options.

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It appears The District Standardization Policy and Procedures to Standardize District operations, being developed are for NON Incorporated Clubs (check it out). It was mentioned at OFSC that the preference is that Clubs remove their Incorporation. How many clubs are willing to give up their Incorporation? Time was spent at AGM 2015 about the benefits of not being Incorporated as a "Club", but NO TIME was spent presenting the negatives / concerns. SO, where is the HELP from OFSC Barrie for Clubs that wish to stay incorporated? A one way street is being paved with no options.

There is a process for dealing with your concerns. All clubs have the opportunity to bring your concerns to your District Board, your District President AND your District Governor and, in fact, clubs are encouraged to do so.  Hopefully this is happening. Pleading to the "OFSC Barrie" for help on this forum will get zero results.

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Only the small Clubs will to "Unincorporate"

I see no pressure to have Clubs do that, it is strictly an option which is their sole choice and which has some minor advantages.

this is correct, it was brought about for small clubs, with out the resources, manpower and cash to operate to full potencial, if there are district association's, the small club can un incorporate, just do trail work and have district representation. There may also be stronger clubs that decide to do the same thing, lets face it, in todays day to day activities, less people are committed to volunteering the time required to sit on club boards, it is getting harder for some clubs to find president's and treasures.

I honestly know nothing about the not for profit legislation, nore do I care because it won't be implemented before I am done with all this, but I have been told the way things look it would be less taxing on clubs if they chose to un incorporate. Of course I would urge that it was looked into before doing so, but there could be other advantages.

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There is a process for dealing with your concerns. All clubs have the opportunity to bring your concerns to your District Board, your District President AND your District Governor and, in fact, clubs are encouraged to do so.  Hopefully this is happening. Pleading to the "OFSC Barrie" for help on this forum will get zero results.

My comment was for awareness. NOT pleading to the OFSC.   

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I brought it up here a couple of times how we can save money with new groomers, selling good used groomers and overload he used groomer market what result in low prices? From what I know, a used groomer does the same job as a new groomer? Nobody want to reply?

Thanks

Greg

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I brought it up here a couple of times how we can save money with new groomers, selling good used groomers and overload he used groomer market what result in low prices? From what I know, a used groomer does the same job as a new groomer? Nobody want to reply?

Thanks

Greg

How about

Lower operating cost

Lower repair cost

Less down time - increased relaibility / availability

Newer models that weren't available in the past that are better suited to the specific terrain

As a start

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How about

Lower operating cost

Lower repair cost

Less down time - increased relaibility / availability

Newer models that weren't available in the past that are better suited to the specific terrain

As a start

You put up some points what can be possible but not always. It's very interesting that the OFSC has never studied the real cost of a groomer and compared it by brand and age.

Newer is nice but there are also lots of problems with new Pinroth and Pisten Bully groomers.

I think that the amortization the first 5 years is way to high for a new groomer. What do you guys think?

Thanks

Greg

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