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MOTS or MOTS II


Greggie

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Hi Everyone,

 

To move all the clubs to MOTS and not to resign existing volunteers is impossible. Here in District 1, we have several clubs who don't want to change to MOTS and if it happens the core volunteers will resign. Knowing that, we can play hard ball and let that happen, hoping that new volunteers step up and pick up the pieces. If that doesn't happen, the neighbor clubs need to pick up the pieces what will result in closing trails and limping the first couple of years.

 

Are we willing to go that way, or are we willing to create a "MOTS II" plan what will save money, volunteers and keep the clubs happy? I am willing to become part of a work group to make this happen. In my opinion, we can come up with a "better" plan to save money and volunteers. What are you guys thinking and who is willing to become part of a work group to design a "MOTS II" plan, present it to the Districts and table it at the OFSC AGM?

Thanks,

Greg

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So, if I don't get my way, I am going to quit and cry about it.

 

Great leadership.

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What does MOTS stand for?

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Hi,

 

MOTS means More On The Snow. The OFSC want to change how clubs are run. They want that all clubs give all assets, what is paid for with permit dollars, to the District. That means that the clubs responsibilities are "only" landowner relations, putting up signs and taking them down in the spring. They have no input anymore and nede to to that will be "told" by the District. Also the OFSC want to close next 5 years every year 5% of the trails. If we have now 35,000 km of trail, over 5 years we will have only about 25,000 km of trails left. This will cut the permit sales most likely with about 20%. Closing club trails means less permit sales. The District is responsible for groomers, grooming, fuel and maintenance. Proud club volunteers need to change to proud District volunteers and this will be tough for lot of volunteers. This is a short version of MOTS.

Thanks,

Greg

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And further, what are the protocols that are unacceptable?

 

Hi,

 

Read the tread "OFSC New Groomers", there is a lof of information about MOTS. 

 

Do we want to loose between 10-20% of the clubs because the core volunteers are resigning?

 

Thanks,

Greg

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Thanks Greggie.

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Show me pls where you have to lose 5% of trails per year. Most volunteers want to pound stakes, brush trails and talk to landowners. Most volunteers do not want to deal with the paperwork  BS . Not sure what control your district is trying to take over.

As I keep saying , all of our grooming bodies still look after their units and drivers.

And getting back...what "written" protocols  are causing issue. I haven't seen "jack' direction from the OFSC.

There is not a club in D9 that has an "identity issue.

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district 9 seems to be running a lot of trail on roads this year,maybee clubs have lost some of their landowner connections.

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Faceman,

The OFSC want to be in control of trails and grooming and that is part of the reason of MOTS.

Maybe so far in District 5 and 9 the clubs groom what they want but that will come soon to an end. They will tell the groomer operators what trail they have to groom and when. As example Top trails 3 times a week and club trails 1 time a week. Also in the MOTS documents of last year was very clear written that they want to close 5% a year for 5 years. By telling the grooming operators what to groom, they have the last word. A club who groomed always their trails very well, maybe over groomed it, will loose that identity. The only identify between the clubs will be signage and social events or fundraising.

Thanks

Greg

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The district directing grooming may not be all bad. I remember a couple of years ago when a Top trail didn't see a groomer for 2 weeks yet one of the club trails, that sees maybe a dozen sleds a week, got groomed every couple of days. This was in mid February and there were no obstructions or reasons to not groom the Top trail. New club organization has rectified this type of problem but sometimes clubs do a questionable job on grooming decisions.

 

There will always be pros and cons to a centralized or de-centralized organization.

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No sense Greggie. Can't discuss anymore. We've only groomed club trails once a week for the last 5 yrs depending on traffic so that doesn't wash. All of our grooming is based on traffic.

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district 9 seems to be running a lot of trail on roads this year,maybee clubs have lost some of their landowner connections.

Always lots of roads in D9. probably seems like more in low snow conditions, plus riders don't stay on the trail, so pemission is lost. Which area's were you running into roads? Durham always had lots of roads, same as wingam too.

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klondyke connection from townsend  and bells lake to rail line 3 sections now on road.  good thing is that mun of west grey does a good job of keeping the mougals down. 

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Hi,

 

MOTS means More On The Snow. The OFSC want to change how clubs are run. They want that all clubs give all assets, what is paid for with permit dollars, to the District. That means that the clubs responsibilities are "only" landowner relations, putting up signs and taking them down in the spring. They have no input anymore and nede to to that will be "told" by the District. Also the OFSC want to close next 5 years every year 5% of the trails. If we have now 35,000 km of trail, over 5 years we will have only about 25,000 km of trails left. This will cut the permit sales most likely with about 20%. Closing club trails means less permit sales. The District is responsible for groomers, grooming, fuel and maintenance. Proud club volunteers need to change to proud District volunteers and this will be tough for lot of volunteers. This is a short version of MOTS.

Thanks,

Greg

More on the Snow was "passed in principle" ONLY at OFSC AGM 2015. It has to come back to the floor at OFSC AGM 2016 to be voted on. However it seems that some powers that be, are taking for granted that it will pass, and plowing ahead anyways. I don't think they were given the authority to make that decision. It should be the decision of the delegates at AGM 2016. If you have other ideas, now is the time to start preparing and sharing.     

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More on the Snow was "passed in principle" ONLY at OFSC AGM 2015. It has to come back to the floor at OFSC AGM 2016 to be voted on. However it seems that some powers that be, are taking for granted that it will pass, and plowing ahead anyways. I don't think they were given the authority to make that decision. It should be the decision of the delegates at AGM 2016. If you have other ideas, now is the time to start preparing and sharing.     

How do we do this as a group??

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Each Club has two votes, majority of votes win.

I recall making a Making a Motion from the floor several years ago regarding pricing for the Classic Permit. After brief discussion it unanimously passed.

This issue which be much more difficult to change because this will be on the Agenda with all the supporting information and Board of Governors Recommendations already prepared so there will be considerable momentum to keep it moving forward and not get de-railed by a few rebel clubs.

These Clubs will need to take their issues to the District table and try to build a consensus there. If you can't convince your own District Clubs then not much chance in my opinion fighting it out at AGM.

I think our District is fairly solid in supporting MOTS but we all have our concerns about how practical it is to cut our Groomers in half in 5 years, most believe we are unable to do that. I'm sure other Districts have the same concerns.

It is going to take a considerable amount of work by Club Executives to be well represented at District table. Many Club Executives are more interested in running their Club that getting involved in the big picture.

Personally I think OFSC is too fixated on the need to keep Trail Permit dirt cheap at $180 and I think that since they have not yet secured the Ontario Government money lode from Val Tags then we need to start increasing our revenues from the users.

We need to get a Government to reduce liability and insurance costs to volunteers groups like us.

26% of permit revenues go to insurance.

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I've read through this post as well as the "OFSC New Groomer" post and guess I've finally come to a spot where I have questions.

 

Background.  I am paid groomer operator for a D1 club since 2009. I know there are some who think it should all be done by volunteers but that is not necessarily realistic.  What the club gets in return for their money is a commitment from me to work on scheduled dates, at night for 8-12 hours per shift.  I treat this as a job.  It gets the same respect and commitment that my regular 44 hour a week job gets.  Like most people my age (36) I have a young family and limited time to go around. I do not feel as if I am a bad person for accepting not much more than minimum wage to make this commitment.  

 

The portion of the clubs trails I am currently assigned to covers 75-95 km. All of our trails are out and back. No loops. They all join to other local clubs or in 1 case end at an urban centre. We have 7 operators for this 1 groomer. Our schedule is set up that Mon-Sun have dedicated operators. I run every second Saturday and Sunday night and fill in whenever else I can or am needed. The other weekend is run much in the same way by the last operator. Other than special circumstances such as opening trails or "storm" grooming all of our grooming is done overnight. Typically between 19:00-05:00. 

 

Over half of this section is flagged as Trunk Trail. It is typically run end to end Fri, Sat, Sun nights as well as once during the week (split up into north and south and done half one night with club / feeder trails and then the rest another night) 

 

I guess my question is, What is MOTS going to change for me? We already prioritize trails by classification of Trunk, Feeder, Club and groom based on that classification. Won't trails that need to be groomed still get groomed? Maybe there will be someone at district level providing guidance on grooming scheduling but won't there still be someone locally feeding them current data?

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Corners Guy,

 

Under MOTS all assets, such as groomers, snowmobiles and ATVs will become District property and can be used where they want. For repairs, you need per mission from the District. Most likely the grooming schedule will change because they, the OFSC,  want to save money. Also MOTS want to close 25% of trails in 5 years. Exact we don't know because there is still limited information available.

Thanks,

Greg

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It looks like a move to centralization which could lead to Ontario trails more closely following the Quebec system - which is pretty effective.

as long as the ofsc dosnt close trails A105Q gone this year .What a shame

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I seem to be hearing what I did from some of the kids in the neighbourhood while growing up. I'm taking my ball and going home because I don't like the way we are playing the game. Grooming associations are nothing new. D7 has been doing this for a while with the exception of a couple of clubs that had not participated in the past. When reference is made to the District controlling grooming the Disrict is the clubs with representation from the clubs. There will be some benefits for sure. Think of the cost of a major repair to a groomer or perhaps the cost of an extraction where it gets stuck in mud or a swamp. That cost is no longer burdened on the financial resources of the one club. It is picked up by the District with all clubs helping defray the cost the club may not have had the funds for on their own. Having a distict that pays operators deals with WSIB insurance on the groomers payroll etc is a win for the club. You don't lose autonomy. Based on total funds available km of trail and a set $ amount per km for grooming as I understand it the club knows how many kms / hrs there is money available for. Overall it should improve rider experience. We have all likely been there where you set out on a freshly groomed TOP trail and suddenly it becomes a horrible ride. Why? Because you are now in a different club. That should become more transparent as the timing can be coordinated to compliment the grooming of your neighbouring club. I see more benefits than negatives. One of the few guarantees in life is that things will change. People need to accept that the old way of doing things is unsustainable and adapt to the changing realities. Imagine if people were stuck on I'm not changing. We could all be riding on trails that were groomed by a sled dragging an old bed spring around. You know the good old way the way we always did it and was fine

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02Sled,

 

That we need to change, I agree for 100% but the MOTS way isn't the only possible way. To say to all the clubs give us all your money on the bank and all assets isn't a friendly way. There are more ways to save money and there are ways to keep the core volunteers happy. At most clubs 20% of the volunteers do 80% of the work. If the 20% resign, there is trouble.

Thanks,

Greg 

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02Sled,

 

That we need to change, I agree for 100% but the MOTS way isn't the only possible way. To say to all the clubs give us all your money on the bank and all assets isn't a friendly way. There are more ways to save money and there are ways to keep the core volunteers happy. At most clubs 20% of the volunteers do 80% of the work. If the 20% resign, there is trouble.

Thanks,

Greg 

 

So what is another way you're suggesting?

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I don't recall seeing anything about all your money. We still have OUR money. What we don't have is the grooming equipment the operating the repair and the insurance cost associated with that.

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