aar0n Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Honestly I think it is unreasonable to expect anything more from the groomers and club at this point in time. Yesterday marked over 100 days of green trails in Muskoka. The clubs groomed the trails to absolute perfection since Day 1. They are tired, out of money, and honestly what is the point of continuing to groom and potentially harm their equipment. As MuskokaMan said, let's call it a season, we all ended with I'm sure what was a great ride. I ended on a very high note, and I don't plan on stepping on my sled again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadoo Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I agree with you that the data printed on the permit is misleading and that the trails are still in perfect condition! However, I think the issue has to with the fact that conditions can change very quickly, volunteers are tired, no incentive to keep grooming and improving trails, LOW MONEY etc... Also, I'm pretty sure there is an agreement with the landowners saying sleds will be off their trails by the 31st absolutely, conditions can change very quickly with the warm and long day time temps. Grooming has stopped because A. trails are not in need of grooming. B. as the melt occurs the running water erodes the trail base FROM THE BOTTOM, so the 2' base that is on some trails can give way when the big groomer goes over. C. with limited to no grooming its difficult to determine the ongoing condition of the trails. it was an MSR decision to close the trails, there are no widespread landowner issues that dictate this closing. It just so happens that the Monday after the weekend is the 31st, If it was the 2nd of April they'd be closed. and you'd have no trouble going out for a ride on any of the trails in the area, be safe and know where you're going. You may be right on the landowner agreements, I am not sure. I do know that many of the trails in muskoka run on road allowances and crown land. Conditions at this time of the season (which is very late this year) won't deteriorate very quickly at all. The conditions are typical of early March most years, and it is sad to let those trails with perfect conditions go to waste. Not at all suggesting they go out and groom at this point. Just would be nice if people could ride what is there until the snow and ice is gone. Just spoke to a friend who was ice fisihing on Simcoe this weekend. Still 26-30" of ice near Gilford at the south end of simcoe. Said there were hundreds of cars and trucks all over the ice yesterday. Crazy! conditions WILL deteriorate very quickly. lakes are still staked in NE MSR, and the trails are still there, go have fun, the ITG is just a guide not the bible. I agree this is rather frustrating. As you say, my favourite trails around LOB are on crown land (d101b superhighway on old wagon wheel, this will be good for WEEKS, wolf/troutspawn lake loop, d101b north of dorset, etc...) ALL ROADS. Now on the main part of LOB in front of my place there is 28'' of ice, but wait...the stakes have been removed! HUH?! what is frustrating? if you are able to go ride, go ride. teh ITG and online trail condition reporting have been around for just over 10 years, before that we would go ride if the conditions warranted. there is no issue riding those trails in terms of tresspassing, they simply had to shut them down because they can't be maintained any more and will get minimal to NO traffic. Most sledders packed it in weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Honestly I think it is unreasonable to expect anything more from the groomers and club at this point in time. Yesterday marked over 100 days of green trails in Muskoka. The clubs groomed the trails to absolute perfection since Day 1. They are tired, out of money, and honestly what is the point of continuing to groom and potentially harm their equipment. As MuskokaMan said, let's call it a season, we all ended with I'm sure what was a great ride. I ended on a very high note, and I don't plan on stepping on my sled again this year. Don't lie... early fall you will be sitting on it making Vrooom Vrooom sounds. My wife thought I was nuts when late last summer I broke out the helmet just to get the feel of it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeSleddin Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Many clubs have posted notices about the legality of riding closed trails, such as Snowcrest's below: Please Remember to Respect our Landowners/Private Property Owners and stay off all UNAVAILABLE Trails. Any use of UNAVAILABLE Trails without the Landowners permission is TRESPASSING and could result in trails permissions being revoked. As a recap, through this thread we have been able to determine: 1. The trails are closed while they are still very rideable in many areas. 2. Grooming Operations have ceased - which makes perfect sense but does not mean that the trails have melted away 3. There are no major widespread landowner issues which have forced the closure of the trails 4. The Sap is not yet running in the trees 5. There is still more than 2 ft of ice on most lakes 6. For a moment, Aaron got excited about the prospects of another ride, but then cooler heads prevailed and he changed his mind. 7. 02SLED has passed along predictions that next Winter will be like this one - which means trails closed before their time in 2015 as well 8. Canadoo has confirmed that many trails still have 2ft of base and he Has given us all permission to continue riding on the closed trails as they still are in good shape. 9. A few warm spring days and people who live for sledding and blow over $10,000 for a ride throw in the towel earlier than they have to. I don't own a $10,000 sled and mine seems to ride pretty good on the snow that is currently on the ground. 10. This year, the expectation and legal right for riding "limited" trails in spring conditions was quashed overnight in Muskoka. If conditions were this good in February last year, we would all be riding. 11. It was the best year of Riding that Muskoka has seen in decades due in great part to volunteers who make it happen. We all thank them for their time and commitment. I may still ride in and about Muskoka over the next week or two. Might even venture onto a lonely tabletop smooth trail or two. If I do I'm not going to post about it here in fear of the OC Narcs. And if I get caught trespassing, I'm sending my ticket to Canadoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aar0n Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Many clubs have posted notices about the legality of riding closed trails, such as Snowcrest's below: Please Remember to Respect our Landowners/Private Property Owners and stay off all UNAVAILABLE Trails. Any use of UNAVAILABLE Trails without the Landowners permission is TRESPASSING and could result in trails permissions being revoked. As a recap, through this thread we have been able to determine: 1. The trails are closed while they are still very rideable in many areas. 2. Grooming Operations have ceased - which makes perfect sense but does not mean that the trails have melted away 3. There are no major widespread landowner issues which have forced the closure of the trails 4. The Sap is not yet running in the trees 5. There is still more than 2 ft of ice on most lakes 6. For a moment, Aaron got excited about the prospects of another ride, but then cooler heads prevailed and he changed his mind. 7. 02SLED has passed along predictions that next Winter will be like this one - which means trails closed before their time in 2015 as well 8. Canadoo has confirmed that many trails still have 2ft of base and he Has given us all permission to continue riding on the closed trails as they still are in good shape. 9. A few warm spring days and people who live for sledding and blow over $10,000 for a ride throw in the towel earlier than they have to. I don't own a $10,000 sled and mine seems to ride pretty good on the snow that is currently on the ground. 10. This year, the expectation and legal right for riding "limited" trails in spring conditions was quashed overnight in Muskoka. If conditions were this good in February last year, we would all be riding. 11. It was the best year of Riding that Muskoka has seen in decades due in great part to volunteers who make it happen. We all thank them for their time and commitment. I may still ride in and about Muskoka over the next week or two. Might even venture onto a lonely tabletop smooth trail or two. If I do I'm not going to post about it here in fear of the OC Narcs. And if I get caught trespassing, I'm sending my ticket to Canadoo. Great recap! I like post #6 lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeSleddin Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Great recap! I like post #6 lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aar0n Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Hey if you do go sledding can you pm what the trails are like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeSleddin Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Hey if you do go sledding can you pm what the trails are like? Sure kiddo. Happy to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think I understand those who have called it a season, and are already looking forward to next year. Conditions right now are not what they were a couple of weeks ago. I can also see why grooming has ended - - although there is still a fair bit of trail base, I could see that it is getting weak in places over creeks, and would easily crumble under the weight of a groomer. Luckily, the trails I've seen in the past two days haven't needed grooming, because they haven't been heavily used since the last grooming. Personally, I'm quite happy to get out for a few hours, so long as the trails are open and safe. Today I sledded about sixty miles out of Mactier, leaving at 915 and returning to the truck around 1215. I was back home in Gravenhurst by 1 o'clock. Different strokes for different folks. The trails are indicated as yellow, which seems about right. I saw one dangerous hole in the trail, shown in a photo below. Someone has placed several pieces of yellow caution tape around the hole. I saw a hole in exactly the same place last March. Other than this place, shown as a small red square on my map (close to Mactier) I observed no hazards. Another potential concern is the fact that I saw no sledders in the sixty miles today, just as I saw nobody yesterday during my travels around Kearney and Sand Lake. I have been riding carefully (a little slower than normal) and leaving early enough that I could walk to a road if necessary. (I'd rather walk on a March or April afternoon than on a frigid day in the middle of January.) No close calls, and I did not push it. On the plus side, the trails I've seen are easily negotiated right now, and better to ride than many trails I enjoyed earlier in the season. Smooth going, and no traffic. I have had absolutely no issues with overheating, as the trails are granular and a bit soft, kicking up plenty of cooling for the machine. I started by leaving Mactier and heading to the Moon River on C. The only road rash is shown as little red dots on my map. The trails are closed south of the Moon, so I turned around "near" the river. I went north to Horseshoe Lake, where I turned around and made a short video. Two days ago I sledded a few trails around Horseshoe Lake and they were great. If you do get out in the next few days, be REALLY careful. The video locations are shown as green squares on my map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Not necessarily. Just depends if the base of the tree is still frozen and isolated with snow. Can take several days of plus temps before sap will run. I've never seen anyone dig tree bases out to do the tapping but you obviously have alot of experience with. Around here, the Mennonites want the trees tapped before the first mild day so they can get all the sap and especially the earlier sap. You obviously would know that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think I understand those who have called it a season, and are already looking forward to next year. Conditions right now are not what they were a couple of weeks ago. I can also see why grooming has ended - - although there is still a fair bit of trail base, I could see that it is getting weak in places over creeks, and would easily crumble under the weight of a groomer. Luckily, the trails I've seen in the past two days haven't needed grooming, because they haven't been heavily used since the last grooming. Personally, I'm quite happy to get out for a few hours, so long as the trails are open and safe. Today I sledded about sixty miles out of Mactier, leaving at 915 and returning to the truck around 1215. I was back home in Gravenhurst by 1 o'clock. Different strokes for different folks. Untitled.jpg The trails are indicated as yellow, which seems about right. I saw one dangerous hole in the trail, shown in a photo below. Someone has placed several pieces of yellow caution tape around the hole. I saw a hole in exactly the same place last March. Other than this place, shown as a small red square on my map (close to Mactier) I observed no hazards. 20140401_120355.jpg Another potential concern is the fact that I saw no sledders in the sixty miles today, just as I saw nobody yesterday during my travels around Kearney and Sand Lake. I have been riding carefully (a little slower than normal) and leaving early enough that I could walk to a road if necessary. No close calls, and I did not push it. On the plus side, the trails I've seen are easily negotiated right now, and better to ride than many trails I enjoyed earlier in the season. Smooth going, and no traffic. I have had absolutely no issues with overheating, as the trails are granular and a bit soft, kicking up plenty of cooling for the machine. I started by leaving Mactier and heading to the Moon River on C. The only road rash is shown as little red dots on my map. The trails are closed south of the Moon, so I turned around "near" the river. 20140401_moon.jpg I went north to Horseshoe Lake, where I turned around and made a short video. Two days ago I sledded a few trails around Horseshoe Lake and they were great. 20140401_201.jpg If you do get out in the next few days, be REALLY careful. The video locations are shown as green squares on my map. Good information Blake. Just lookng at the picture of the hole in the trail and wondering what would happen if someone went through that trail (open yellow) at night going 50 km. or maybe a little faster. I don't believe that anyone here has made mention of the fact that if the trails are open (yellow or green), they are open for day and night riding. Issues like this hole or others that may/can show up from water running under the snow with this mild weather could cause potential problems for riders. Maybe that factors into the decisions made as well it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Good information Blake. Just lookng at the picture of the hole in the trail and wondering what would happen if someone went through that trail (open yellow) at night going 50 km. or maybe a little faster. I don't believe that anyone here has made mention of the fact that if the trails are open (yellow or green), they are open for day and night riding. Issues like this hole or others that may/can show up from water running under the snow with this mild weather could cause potential problems for riders. Maybe that factors into the decisions made as well it should. You are quite right. Anybody who's still sledding needs to be extra cautious and take their time. I have also noticed that if you stray from the packed trail base, the snow off to the sides gives way very easily, and could pull you in if you were going too fast. Same if you try walking off the trail, the snow is still a bit deep, but won't support much weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Good information Blake. Thank you. Next I'm posting a video about how to make maple syrup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Not really. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadoo Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Many clubs have posted notices about the legality of riding closed trails, such as Snowcrest's below: Please Remember to Respect our Landowners/Private Property Owners and stay off all UNAVAILABLE Trails. Any use of UNAVAILABLE Trails without the Landowners permission is TRESPASSING and could result in trails permissions being revoked. As a recap, through this thread we have been able to determine: 1. The trails are closed while they are still very rideable in many areas. 2. Grooming Operations have ceased - which makes perfect sense but does not mean that the trails have melted away 3. There are no major widespread landowner issues which have forced the closure of the trails 4. The Sap is not yet running in the trees 5. There is still more than 2 ft of ice on most lakes 6. For a moment, Aaron got excited about the prospects of another ride, but then cooler heads prevailed and he changed his mind. 7. 02SLED has passed along predictions that next Winter will be like this one - which means trails closed before their time in 2015 as well 8. Canadoo has confirmed that many trails still have 2ft of base and he Has given us all permission to continue riding on the closed trails as they still are in good shape. 9. A few warm spring days and people who live for sledding and blow over $10,000 for a ride throw in the towel earlier than they have to. I don't own a $10,000 sled and mine seems to ride pretty good on the snow that is currently on the ground. 10. This year, the expectation and legal right for riding "limited" trails in spring conditions was quashed overnight in Muskoka. If conditions were this good in February last year, we would all be riding. 11. It was the best year of Riding that Muskoka has seen in decades due in great part to volunteers who make it happen. We all thank them for their time and commitment. I may still ride in and about Muskoka over the next week or two. Might even venture onto a lonely tabletop smooth trail or two. If I do I'm not going to post about it here in fear of the OC Narcs. And if I get caught trespassing, I'm sending my ticket to Canadoo. yes they post that for the same reason msr closed the trails: liability. If you were going to ride anyways, why start this thread? you wouldn't get a ticket for tresspassing, you'd get a notice to appear in front of a judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think I understand those who have called it a season, and are already looking forward to next year. Conditions right now are not what they were a couple of weeks ago. I can also see why grooming has ended - - although there is still a fair bit of trail base, I could see that it is getting weak in places over creeks, and would easily crumble under the weight of a groomer. Luckily, the trails I've seen in the past two days haven't needed grooming, because they haven't been heavily used since the last grooming. The trails are indicated as yellow, which seems about right. I saw one dangerous hole in the trail, shown in a photo below. Someone has placed several pieces of yellow caution tape around the hole. I saw a hole in exactly the same place last March. Other than this place, shown as a small red square on my map (close to Mactier) I observed no hazards. 20140401_120355.jpg One thing to look out for this time of year is those holes like you have shown here. A number of years ago we were riding late season and the trail looked great. Like you we had slowed it down. The first three sleds went through just fine. The fourth one going over the same spot had the rear end suddenly drop out from under it. It seems the water was flowing under the hard pack snow and ice and finally gave way after a few sleds had pounded on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Thank you. Next I'm posting a video about how to make maple syrup. sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Not really. LOL awww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 One thing to look out for this time of year is those holes like you have shown here. A number of years ago we were riding late season and the trail looked great. Like you we had slowed it down. The first three sleds went through just fine. The fourth one going over the same spot had the rear end suddenly drop out from under it. It seems the water was flowing under the hard pack snow and ice and finally gave way after a few sleds had pounded on it. And I had the same thing happen last year in Quebec in the first week of March! Let's face it, we have to take responsibility for our own actions. I intend to ride for at least two more weekends. I will try to find open err.... 'available' trails and will take responsibility for my actions. Trails can often be unpredictable but this is a hell of a sport and as long as there is snow and trails, I'll be riding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 And I had the same thing happen last year in Quebec in the first week of March! Let's face it, we have to take responsibility for our own actions. I intend to ride for at least two more weekends. I will try to find open err.... 'available' trails and will take responsibility for my actions. Trails can often be unpredictable but this is a hell of a sport and as long as there is snow and trails, I'll be riding! everyone should shoulder the responsibility like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 That's gotta hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Trails can often be unpredictable but this is a hell of a sport and as long as there is snow and trails, I'll be riding! I hear ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Thank you. Next I'm posting a video about how to make maple syrup. Forget the how to video... make a batch and share it with everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeSleddin Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 I think I understand those who have called it a season, and are already looking forward to next year. Conditions right now are not what they were a couple of weeks ago. I can also see why grooming has ended - - although there is still a fair bit of trail base, I could see that it is getting weak in places over creeks, and would easily crumble under the weight of a groomer. Luckily, the trails I've seen in the past two days haven't needed grooming, because they haven't been heavily used since the last grooming. Personally, I'm quite happy to get out for a few hours, so long as the trails are open and safe. Today I sledded about sixty miles out of Mactier, leaving at 915 and returning to the truck around 1215. I was back home in Gravenhurst by 1 o'clock. Different strokes for different folks. Untitled.jpg The trails are indicated as yellow, which seems about right. I saw one dangerous hole in the trail, shown in a photo below. Someone has placed several pieces of yellow caution tape around the hole. I saw a hole in exactly the same place last March. Other than this place, shown as a small red square on my map (close to Mactier) I observed no hazards. 20140401_120355.jpg Another potential concern is the fact that I saw no sledders in the sixty miles today, just as I saw nobody yesterday during my travels around Kearney and Sand Lake. I have been riding carefully (a little slower than normal) and leaving early enough that I could walk to a road if necessary. (I'd rather walk on a March or April afternoon than on a frigid day in the middle of January.) No close calls, and I did not push it. On the plus side, the trails I've seen are easily negotiated right now, and better to ride than many trails I enjoyed earlier in the season. Smooth going, and no traffic. I have had absolutely no issues with overheating, as the trails are granular and a bit soft, kicking up plenty of cooling for the machine. I started by leaving Mactier and heading to the Moon River on C. The only road rash is shown as little red dots on my map. The trails are closed south of the Moon, so I turned around "near" the river. 20140401_moon.jpg I went north to Horseshoe Lake, where I turned around and made a short video. Two days ago I sledded a few trails around Horseshoe Lake and they were great. 20140401_201.jpg If you do get out in the next few days, be REALLY careful. The video locations are shown as green squares on my map. Great Report Blake. Glad to hear that the trails are still holding up well. Seeing only one water hazard in 60 miles of April riding in Muskoka is pretty amazing! I would expect that the conditions would be the same throughout most of Muskoka. There are always hazards on the trail (even in the mid season) and if you don't ride carefully, you can certainly get hurt. Its one of the inherent risks of the sport. With regards to the excuse that all of the trails have been closed for liability reasons, don't know if I buy that one as we all sign our lives away to the OFSC regarding liability when purchasing our permits, and every time we enter the trail system and pass an OFSC warning sign. It is Great to hear that the Orillia/Barrie clubs still have some open trails! I guess their liability is different down south in simcoe... yeah that's it. Oh, and Canadoo, I clearly started this post because I don't believe the trails should be closed so early when there is s**t heaps of snow and ice on the trails and lakes. Also started it because I was fishing for someone else to shoulder the responsibility for my actions. Thanks for taking the bait. Long Live Sledding in April! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeSleddin Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 One more thing... Blake, when shooting your videos with your iPhone, turn it sideways (landscape mode) so that the video will be the same dimensions as a TV screen or computer. 16x9. Just a suggestion as I want the maple syrup making video to be as Hollywood as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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