skidooboy Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 what does it matter if it is december, or april, may ect...??? EVERY AUTOMOBILE, AND EVERY SNOWMACHINE IS REQUIRED TO CARRY PROPERTY PROTECTION, AND PERSONAL LIABILTY PROTECTION INSURANCE BY ONTARIO LAW. so, to answer your question.... the at fault party, would be liable for the costs associated with an accident. just like if the accident happened on the roadway with autos. investigation takes place, accident report issued, at fault parties charged. affected insurance company pays. Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Good for you Skidooboy........you just solved all OFSC's money problems...........they no longer need to have liability insurance !!! Sarcasm over............ private landowners want to know they won't be open for being sued, OFSC wants to be sure they are not open to being sued because trails were listed as open and accident happened , or a waterhole from spring was not marked , or tree that fell over on trail was not seen and removed by groomers (groomers you are suggesting don't need to be used at this time of year)...............you can't win this one Skidooboy, insurance and legal issues always win these days, even in Canada now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 there sure are allot of assumptions in this thread. The guidelines for trail availability is clearly stated, all clubs know the guidelines. Luc is not new, he has been doing this a long time. If he say's the trail is safe to be listed limited, it is. As for what a landowner's wants are, it is between the club and the landowner, how anyone can come on here and assume what other landowners expect and are thinking is ludicrous. Anyone that has dealt with LUP's and has been active with a club knows full well the landowner doesn't have a problem letting you know they have a problem. I am glad that some of the people on here aren't involved, the system would be screwed up worse than it already is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Other than some ripped up wheat - I don't know what the OFSC really has to be liable for - as far as the skidoos are concerned? It is a Ride-at-your-own-bloody-risk-eh trail system - no? If a bridge falls in the river as someone is going over it - maybe. Is that a bigger issue in April than Feb? What if that tree fell in Jan? Ride at your own risk = the tree and rocks were there first! Yes - they may jump out and touch you, but they were there first. Maybe it's b/c it's a conspiracy - like Mike Kennedy hit that tree? Someone planted it there! (wink) I find this arguement has a very similar ring to it as my chumm has aboot smoking. The end-of-life costs are about the same if you die of cancer or live long and end up in a home and/or lots of other treatments along the way. And heck - they save the support money for all those yrs! Well - spring will get here every yr. The same thing happens every yr. The snow melts away, the rivers break up, and the swamps fill with slush. The rocks melt out of the snow the same yr to yr. Does it matter which month it is? Is the process a greater liability in April when only a few sleds are out, or an early yr that loses most rideable snow in late Feb when people are at the height of getting in their winter vacations? It seems to me that as far as "liability" is concerned, the late spring is WAY less of a risk. If a guys cabin is snowbound - I suggest he just takes the sled. It really is b/c of the late spring that he is still able to go ice fishing anyway. I really don't see the issue... I have however seen the mud on The Whitman. I don't know who would think that breakup is a good time to head into the bush in your truck*. Nor think that to be a plausable arguement for closing the trail to the machines that are made for the snow? I would like to "like" Wildmans post. * I know they doo, and I have tried to follow and unload at the Domtar as other were, but once I got to the mud, and seen how long the stretch was (aboot a klick) I decided that wouldn't be a good plan. Tear up the road, and possibly get stuck. I wasn't likely to git stuck with my rig, but I saw a 4 place enclosed go through just ahead of me. I bet he had fun comming back out two days later! We went back and took the bush route on skidoos. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbojamie Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 So as long as there is snow, even if it were to run into June, regardless of the cost that they don't have money for they should keep maintaining all those km's of trails in an area that doesn't sell enough permits to be self sustainable and needs matrix transfers to groom, those trails should be kept open to keep a dozen people happy... Cost per person still riding might only be well in excess of the cost of the permit they buy. But hey the wallet is never empty is it. Every club faced economic challenges this year... even those who had strong permit sales... how is it that the far north has lots of cash to keep on grooming into late April? Send some of the cash our way... we need some to pay for a building for our groomer. Not too many clubs in the North wasting money on a groomer building. Every one I pass sits outside money goes into the trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white dragon Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Not too many clubs in the North wasting money on a groomer building. Every one I pass sits outside money goes into the trails. considering how much $$$ these groomer & drags cost,they should be in at least a cover-all....wouldn't really call it a waste of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Other than some ripped up wheat - I don't know what the OFSC really has to be liable for - as far as the skidoos are concerned? It is a Ride-at-your-own-bloody-risk-eh trail system - no? . I wish it were that simple and truly a ride at your own risk situation. You know those parking lots where there is a disclaimer sign saying you park your vehicle at your own risk... they mean absolutely nothing if the lot attendant was negligent in any way shape or form since they took money for you to park there. They just hope nobody pursues it. When the OFSC (club) accepts money for the permit there is liability associated with it regardless of the ride at your own risk signs. Anything that can be construed as negligence makes them liable. Things like a missing slow sign or caution signs for a recent washout. The OFSC policy self insures for a significant amount which I don't recall at the moment. People sue the OFSC regularly for their own stupidity. It is just a fact of the society we live in that many look to blame someone else for their own stupidity. If memory serves me correct you have two years to file a claim from the date of the incident. You sue the OFSC for $50,0000 that would be under the limit for self insure and I would put money on it the lawyers for the insurance company wouldn't put much effort into fighting it and simply settle out of court since the cost to fight it would very quicklly eclipse the $50,000 mark. Picture a sledder riding a trail along side a roadway and the trail is on top of a few feet of snow higher than the roadway. The sledder decides the trail condition is too rough for them to ride so they go sideways down the edge of the trail onto the road and roll the sled injuring themselves. What would you think will happen. A lot of people would chalk it up to their own stupidity but others will claim the club was negligent in the maintenance of the trail forcing them to go off the side and blame the club. We all have to be wary of crooks. It cost a friend or mine $8k to defend themselves in court when a sledder rode across their farm property near Flesherton (not even part of the trail system) and ran into a wire farm fence that was almost buried in snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 ya, since the new risk signage two years ago http://www.ofsc.on.ca/images/stories/trails/Use_at_own_risk_sign.jpg there has not been 1 lawsuit filed, all the court cases we have been settling on have been prior to 2 years ago. Looks like the new wording has some clout, maybe the loop holes have been filled in. all this has sweet diddly screw 2 do with some trails being avalible limited between the dates set forth in the guidelines. Time to bring some real facts forward or quit yappin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 ..... private landowners want to know they won't be open for being sued, OFSC wants to be sure they are not open to being sued because trails were listed as open and accident happened , or a waterhole from spring was not marked , or tree that fell over on trail was not seen and removed by groomers (groomers you are suggesting don't need to be used at this time of year)...............you can't win this one Skidooboy, insurance and legal issues always win these days, even in Canada now. that is why clubs get LUPs, the landowners are covered , a club just can't slap a trail on private property with a signed contract A logging company can come in Jan 12 and plow the road to gravel, it happens all the time a Landowner can plow and close the trail that runs on his property anytime Trees fall anytime of the yr there is nothing new nor date specific here So what is the issue here????? There is snow, there is $$$$ left in the club's purse from permits sold, club executive wants to keep trails open as per RM Trails are listed as open with less snow earlier in the season and all potential you discussed were there then as they are now That is what SB is getting at In your scenario might as well wrap ourselves in bubblewrap and lock ourselves in a padded room so no one gets hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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