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NO Trails West of Dubreuilville this winter, District 16 Closed.


The Groomer Guy

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bill

thx for keeping it real...these are things everybody needs to know...know clubs that pay for brushing & trail clean up...wtf

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It is no different here we work and we pay to ride. There is a different community mindset though. Ebert Welding in New Liskeard they build excellent groomers and bridges.

...and how many volunteers doo you have per capita?

How many people in Terrace Bay? Nippigon? Beardmore?

...and an already big club can likely get a higher % of the people possibly b/c of commeradery, and the infectiossness (word?) of a busy body. In Marathon - YOU are the infection. Maybe you can pass it on to a cpl' chumms, but ....

Thunder Bay is what really makes me wonder...

What is it aboot that town and sleds?

They have the population to really make a difference ... ... and I guess they doo.

I have seen very few sleds come out of that town, I never see anyone from there online. (Save for the Pig from Nippigon) They have so much as outlawed the bloody sleds from their town! ???

District 16 west of Manitauwadge (North of Superior loop) sees VERY little traffic - EVER!

West of Hearst seems to be mostly locals of Hearst and Longlac/Geraldton. VERY little tourism ever goes there. (that I have seen or heard of)

Some of the lack of tourism could be blamed on them as far as not being gung-ho enough in the early days and getting folks comming to their area when it was all new. (15 yrs ago) But the reality is that they have SO much water to cross, that they have to wait 'till the season is half over before they are ready to roll. Again - making it quite honestly - not worth it.

EDIT:

I was only familier with Superior Engineering (?) bridges (SSM, On) - which are the big expansion bridges. (Pic River)

.

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Very vaild points Ox...

At the high point the OFSC was 140,000 users and 40,000kms of trails.

Last year the number a lot of people are floating was 80,000ish seasonal users.

If your user base is down almost 40%, logic says you need to look at reducing your level of trails to match. But what are we at now, 32,000km? About 15-20% down from days of great.

Luc has said it, they told his club 330hours of grooming this year no more. As a way to cut cost in low permit sales areas.

But this is where the problem really lies, the OFSC may be limiting clubs on grooming, but they could actually be seeing more traffic than a club with no grooming limit.

I've been told (someon correct me if I'm wrong) that Port Perry SC sells more permits than any other club in the system, a lot more. I've heard it's 25-30% of permit sales. Mainly because they are the closest to the bedroom communities of the GTA.

I know lots of guys (because I work in Pickering) that have been buying from Port Perry, but have never rode there, in 10years or more of sleding. They keeps thier sleds at the cottage 2 hours north, but buying from a local sled shop 5mins from home is easier than close to where they ride.

The buy where you ride system, doesn't work. I should beable to walk in to any place that sells permits and pick a club for my permit money to goto. Just like when you buy online or at the sled show. Maybe that would help balance things a little.

The death of some trails is most likely needed, however I'm sure a lot are suffering just because of the lopsided funding matrix.

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...and how many volunteers doo you have per capita?

How many people in Terrace Bay? Nippigon? Beardmore?

...and an already big club can likely get a higher % of the people possibly b/c of commeradery, and the infectiossness (word?) of a busy body. In Marathon - YOU are the infection. Maybe you can pass it on to a cpl' chumms, but ....

Thunder Bay is what really makes me wonder...

What is it aboot that town and sleds?

They have the population to really make a difference ... ... and I guess they doo.

I have seen very few sleds come out of that town, I never see anyone from there online. (Save for the Pig from Nippigon) They have so much as outlawed the bloody sleds from their town! ???

District 16 west of Manitauwadge (North of Superior loop) sees VERY little traffic - EVER!

West of Hearst seems to be mostly locals of Hearst and Longlac/Geraldton. VERY little tourism ever goes there. (that I have seen or heard of)

Some of the lack of tourism could be blamed on them as far as not being gung-ho enough in the early days and getting folks comming to their area when it was all new. (15 yrs ago) But the reality is that they have SO much water to cross, that they have to wait 'till the season is half over before they are ready to roll. Again - making it quite honestly - not worth it.

EDIT:

I was only familier with Superior Engineering (?) bridges (SSM, On) - which are the big expansion bridges. (Pic River)

.

reality here is 3-4 main guys/gals do 90% of the work

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Very vaild points Ox...

At the high point the OFSC was 140,000 users and 40,000kms of trails.

Last year the number a lot of people are floating was 80,000ish seasonal users.

If your user base is down almost 40%, logic says you need to look at reducing your level of trails to match. But what are we at now, 32,000km? About 15-20% down from days of great.

Luc has said it, they told his club 330hours of grooming this year no more. As a way to cut cost in low permit sales areas.

But this is where the problem really lies, the OFSC may be limiting clubs on grooming, but they could actually be seeing more traffic than a club with no grooming limit.

I've been told (someon correct me if I'm wrong) that Port Perry SC sells more permits than any other club in the system, a lot more. I've heard it's 25-30% of permit sales. Mainly because they are the closest to the bedroom communities of the GTA.

I know lots of guys (because I work in Pickering) that have been buying from Port Perry, but have never rode there, in 10years or more of sleding. They keeps thier sleds at the cottage 2 hours north, but buying from a local sled shop 5mins from home is easier than close to where they ride.

The buy where you ride system, doesn't work. I should beable to walk in to any place that sells permits and pick a club for my permit money to goto. Just like when you buy online or at the sled show. Maybe that would help balance things a little.

The death of some trails is most likely needed, however I'm sure a lot are suffering just because of the lopsided funding matrix.

124,000 members 49,000 kilometers of trail

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Thunder Bay is what really makes me wonder...

What is it aboot that town and sleds?

They have the population to really make a difference ... ... and I guess they doo.

I have seen very few sleds come out of that town, I never see anyone from there online. (Save for the Pig from Nippigon) They have so much as outlawed the bloody sleds from their town! ???

This comes from the typical NIMBY (not in my backyard) person that stands up in front of city council and says something... A few councilors see it as a way to gain votes, because no one is disagreeing with the NIMBY and they pass a by-law before evening looking at what impact their new by-law will have.

Look at Lindsy, right in the heart of Central Ontario snowmobile country and they have put a by-law in place baning sleds, a very stiff by-law from what I've been told.

Trenton and the rest of Quinte West did the same thing 10 years ago, the damn sled trail ran right downtown on a old rail bed. It passed countless restaurants and shops, a few gas stations, and a major hotel. All because a bunch of NIMBYs wanted to make it a walking trail in the summer, and said sleds where making too much of a mess of the ground under the snow. No one bothered to check the story out they just put a by-law in place...

Brighton reversed their by-law a few years back, the NIMBYs said sleds where running them off the trails well they tried to walk and enjoy nature. Than 2 years later, these same people are back at town council wanting to know why the town isn't clearing the brush on their walking trail. So they said you want the brush cleared, the sled club will be happy to do it again for you and the trials are open again.

Someone from the office in Barrie should be sending emails to Cities in the heart of snowmobile land and laying out what its really costing them in lost tourism by being anti-sled....Most city councils have no idea about what sledding does for their town or City, if they did, they would welcome sleds with open arms. Most cities thing once the snow hits the ground, tourism stops until spring.....

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124,000 members 49,000 kilometers of trail

And last year, we where about 80,000 and the OFSC site says over 32,000kms of trails..

so thats a 35% drop in permits and about the same in trails, so I guess trail reduction is on par with loss of members...

But I'm sure we are still losing trails simply do to the way the system is funded...

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started lookin around a bit.........it may not all be doom and gloom, maybe the message was recieved, http://www.snowmobiling.greenstone.ca/News/20122013News/tabid/83/Default.aspx http://sno-kickers.com/ lotsa pics and info on the club over the years, look at the pics and read the descriptions.......same people for a long friggin time. Good info on the brigde to.......I don't think it is going anywhere right away either.

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From the research I have done, my opinion is it sounds like there where more problems at the district level then anywhere else. There are still 4 clubs that are functional and selling ofsc permits, they just don't list them under a district and they are isolated from the rest of the system. At least Greenstone will connect to 3 clubs/communities if they can make it fly.

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This comes from the typical NIMBY (not in my backyard) person that stands up in front of city council and says something... A few councilors see it as a way to gain votes, because no one is disagreeing with the NIMBY and they pass a by-law before evening looking at what impact their new by-law will have.

Look at Lindsy, right in the heart of Central Ontario snowmobile country and they have put a by-law in place baning sleds, a very stiff by-law from what I've been told.

Trenton and the rest of Quinte West did the same thing 10 years ago, the damn sled trail ran right downtown on a old rail bed. It passed countless restaurants and shops, a few gas stations, and a major hotel. All because a bunch of NIMBYs wanted to make it a walking trail in the summer, and said sleds where making too much of a mess of the ground under the snow. No one bothered to check the story out they just put a by-law in place...

Brighton reversed their by-law a few years back, the NIMBYs said sleds where running them off the trails well they tried to walk and enjoy nature. Than 2 years later, these same people are back at town council wanting to know why the town isn't clearing the brush on their walking trail. So they said you want the brush cleared, the sled club will be happy to do it again for you and the trials are open again.

Someone from the office in Barrie should be sending emails to Cities in the heart of snowmobile land and laying out what its really costing them in lost tourism by being anti-sled....Most city councils have no idea about what sledding does for their town or City, if they did, they would welcome sleds with open arms. Most cities thing once the snow hits the ground, tourism stops until spring.....

The address to local council needs to come from the local clubs andfaces they see every day . That has way more effect than somebody from somewhere else. The OFSC has given us the tools to do this.

As for Lindsay history is just repeating itself. This is the town with the widest streets and the narrowest minds. It was Purdy's mills and had quite a milling industry until cholera hit ontario and the bug eyed dummies decided to burn down the mills and drain the ponds thinking that this was the problem. It has not gotten better since,

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The economy is the primary cause of the loss of trails. Less people = less resources, that means money for permits, riders on the trails and most importantly - volunteers. Given all of the trails that needed to be groomed and some of the rugged terrain, it was just a matter of time. Those of you that had ridden "D" north of Superior, "A" from Hillsport to Longlac or, my favorite A107A know how remote some of these places are and how difficult they were to groom. Small communities like Marathon, Terrace Bay and Longlac just didn't have the resources to keep these trails maintained and safe. I have always felt that the OFSC needed to change the distribution of funds and make the boundaries of the districts dynamic; this would mean a complete team effort from all clubs. I could never understand why there are multiple trails in the populated areas that lead to the same place when trails are closing and the system is shrinking. I can only be thinking like: "it's our money and we're going to keep it here". Perhaps the OFSC has done some research and found that touring is less popular than it once was and people are trailering less. I suppose, if that's the case, it is a sound business decision to dump the money in places where the trails will be most used. I don't like it. We used to be able to start in North Bay and ride an 1800 mile loop and never ride the same trail twice, we can't do that anymore. I fear it will continue; the "F" trails will be the next to go.

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124,000 members 49,000 kilometers of trail

124,000 permits sold NOT members btw

Lot of those permits sold have/had more then one rider

Funny part Sudbury has list 1200km worth of trails for the longest time, but when I went down there last week and showed my GF all the places we(my old club) had trails that are no longer groomed I would say we lost well over half the KMs since the mid 90s easily, that is just my club out of 8 in Sudbury, I think we are listed at 98kms now

I don't think there was ever an accurate number kept on OFSC trails until a few years ago when they realized there was only 32,000kms of trails recorded on GPS

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