Jump to content

Trails for 2012/2013 Season


AkronOrange

Recommended Posts

I have to disagree. I ride both ATV and sled and much enjoy sledding over ATVing. Having said that..in several market's ATV's are now outselling sleds anywhere from 3:1 to 6:1. Those are considerable statistics. Typically an ATV is cheaper to enter the market on. There is less in the way of specialized clothing to buy, the riding season is ten months of the year compared to maybe three on a sled..if you are lucky! Plus ATV's have many other useful purposes, such as hunting, fishing, utility, etc. If we keep having lackluster Winters like we have had the ATV market will soar.

I am a director for both local snowmobile and ATV clubs and I can tell you that while the snowmobile industry is old and deep seated, it is not growing, while the ATV club is growing each year. The HCSA maintains roughly 350 Km's of trails while the HATVA operates 1700 Km's of signed, and insured trails. I will admit that this is the exception rather than the norm. Organized ATVing is very much still in it's youth across the Province, I say youth as opposed to infancy as there are many good clubs around and it is not new to be organized. The sport is growing and the opportunity for both types of clubs to work together is now. To further develop trail networks, save problem areas, promote, fundraise and co exist. To say ATV's will be the death of our trails is a broad statement! What have you to back this up? What about those sledders with blatant disregard for closed trails, those who off trail ride on private property, strew beer cans and belts..HATVA each Spring retrieves a full trailer load of this crap off the rail trail in Haliburton. All accumulated over the Winter riding season. Locally here HATVA as an example was instrumental in keeping the rail trail open for powersports as the naturalists and tree huggers wanted it to become a green belt for turtle watching!

A good ATV club promotes trail stewardship, educates, repairs trails, develops trails, works with the local snowmobile clubs, and has a high degree or community presence to promote proper riding. The areas where trails get ruined or involve issues typically are where there are no organized ATV clubs. This is where you have trespassing issues, renegade riders, people pissing off landowners and the list goes on. Don't kid yourself...it's not just ATV traffic either..there are a lot of jeepsters running around too! These guys cause major, major damage.

All I ask is that people give the sport of ATVing a chance to grow properly. For clubs to develop, to foster partnerships where they can and to develop their own trails and work with area sled cubs where and if trails are shared. There was once a time when the sport of organized snowmobiling was new and faced many problems, dilemmas and perils and pitfalls too.

heard this week at our meeting that some dirt bike club members helped brush some local trails around barrie...we do share some parts of our trails & seems to work out
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 147
  • Created
  • Last Reply

First off, welcome to the forum. There is a lot of information and discussion here and we hope you come back often.

There is a proposal that was presented at the AGM to restructure our permits. The proposal is still in the early stages but one part is to provide regional permits at a reduced cost. You might want to check out this thread about the AGM http://ontariocondit...ng/page__st__75

IMHO... This would be a huge step in the right direction provided they don't disect the province in too many pieces... many of us come up for a week of riding once or twice a year. We stay in the same general vicinity.... for example, I've always ridden North Bay and North.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMHO... This would be a huge step in the right direction provided they don't disect the province in too many pieces... many of us come up for a week of riding once or twice a year. We stay in the same general vicinity.... for example, I've always ridden North Bay and North.

They are looking at 5 regions at this point but it is still early. One of the major points of the change is that it has to be financially feasible for the province as a whole as well as for each region.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand the system very well, I asked the question so people think about it for a minute. I have posted this before, ofsc is exactly what it is, a federation. It is not a business. It does not operate like a business. People assume it is a business and they expect to be treated like they purchased something from a business. The truth of the matter is, if there where people (enough) operating snowmobile clubs in d16, they would not have been axed. There is criteria to meet to be able to be apart of the ofsc, d16 didn't meet it. It was not all about money,it is man power. My club has over 800 members, roughly 30 people are involved, about 6 hold all the important roles and do all the mandatory paper work......it is a huge undertaking. I can see why d16 folded, there is so much paperwork and deadlines to meet to keep the insurance company and mto happy that it is not feasible for a club of 2,3 er 4 people to operate. If anyone is looking for someone to blame, go seek out the mother %$#@%^ 's that sued the ofsc and made the insurance premium so high that it is nearly impossible to operate the federation, quit blaming all the people that volunteer and run the clubs, as they are most definitely the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs

bye the way BP, this is by no means directed at u, I just used ur quote

800 members buying memberships or 800 permit buyers who bought through your club?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to my 1st snowmobile club meeting out here, might buy my membership $20 and help them out this winter too and ATVs are making us lose trails

BTW this club also has a few members who have organized an ATV club, the club itself is helping with trails but the problem is no one cares and just rides where ever when ever and the club is about to give up after this yr, luckily the snowmobile club is quite strong, but the bad apples on ATVs are ruining it for all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

800 members buying memberships or 800 permit buyers who bought through your club?

For many clubs, they are one and the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

800 members buying memberships or 800 permit buyers who bought through your club?

when a permit is purchased through my club, u r a member, in fact it is the only way to b a member of the club in question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For many clubs, they are one and the same.

when a permit is purchased through my club, u r a member, in fact it is the only way to b a member of the club in question.

So there is no real attachement to a club

Those are just 800 permit holders IMO that happen to buy a permit from your permit vendor

A club member should be willing to buy a club membership from the club, $5 back in Sudbury gets you a club membership and out here $20 gets you a club membership ($25 for family)

By buying one you can take pride in your club and the club sees that you want to help and the $$$ goes toward your benefits vs just another permit buyer that does nothing but ride

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting comments, FB.

I was looking up an old ride they had in Vermont called "Border to Border" and glanced at the Vermont snowmobile association's website.

Vermont 'requires' that you join a local club for a fee AND also obtain a trail pass for $80 (resident).

When I read that, my thought was "that'll foster a feeling of belonging to a club".

Vermont also has "only" 6 districts, which seems to be the direction we're heading.

http://www.vtvast.org/VAST/About-VAST/Clubs.html

(the VTB2BN24 - Vermont Border to Border in 24 hours charity ride is no longer operating - it was from the southern tip of Vermont near Mass. to the northern tip of Vermont at the Canadian border. 4 am departure ..... full day ride)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting comments, FB.

I was looking up an old ride they had in Vermont called "Border to Border" and glanced at the Vermont snowmobile association's website.

Vermont 'requires' that you join a local club for a fee AND also obtain a trail pass for $80 (resident).

When I read that, my thought was "that'll foster a feeling of belonging to a club".

Vermont also has "only" 6 districts, which seems to be the direction we're heading.

http://www.vtvast.or...VAST/Clubs.html

(the VTB2BN24 - Vermont Border to Border in 24 hours charity ride is no longer operating - it was from the southern tip of Vermont near Mass. to the northern tip of Vermont at the Canadian border. 4 am departure ..... full day ride)

New York is similar but slightly different, non club members pay more for a trail pass

My opinion is if you want to become a member you should want to by a membership not just a trail pass, it shows that you want to be involve and care about your club vs just paying to ride

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New York is similar but slightly different, non club members pay more for a trail pass

My opinion is if you want to become a member you should want to by a membership not just a trail pass, it shows that you want to be involve and care about your club vs just paying to ride

We used to do it that way. The problem was that the ones that bought the membership were the ones that did all the work. So we dropped it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We used to do it that way. The problem was that the ones that bought the membership were the ones that did all the work. So we dropped it.

If someone wants to help numerous clubs why should that person pay for each clubs

membership. I think it should be optional. Scares good people away that are tight on funds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We used to do it that way. The problem was that the ones that bought the membership were the ones that did all the work. So we dropped it.

So you guys gave in or had no benefits of being part of the club

How many memberships you guys sell?

Our club sold roughly 60 memberships and maybe 5-8members did all the work,250 permits sold roughly

What do you do about the people that don't buy permits and don't ride yet help out the club?

If someone wants to help numerous clubs why should that person pay for each clubs

membership. I think it should be optional. Scares good people away that are tight on funds.

It is optional, you don't need a membership to help out a club

its $5-25 depending on clubs that have actual memberships, that is not even a drink at a bar or a at $25 a supper and drink

Back home I had 2 club memberships and helped out 2 clubs in sudbury

IMO limiting memberships to just permit buying is selling the club and snowmobiling short and we wonder why we have the attitude "I bought my permit, wth our the trail so rough complaining crowd"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If someone wants to help numerous clubs why should that person pay for each clubs

membership. I think it should be optional. Scares good people away that are tight on funds.

I'm not sure about $5 scaring someone away but at the same time there is something fundamentaly wrong with charging someone to be able to donate their time and labour. Engaging your club members and making them feel like they belong I agree with. I think that can be done with fun events that get your members to participate. Once you get them hooked on the fun portion then you may be able to entice them to volunteer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure about $5 scaring someone away but at the same time there is something fundamentaly wrong with charging someone to be able to donate their time and labour. Engaging your club members and making them feel like they belong I agree with. I think that can be done with fun events that get your members to participate. Once you get them hooked on the fun portion then you may be able to entice them to volunteer.

It is buying a membership not donating $$$ to give your time and labour!!!

A membership is a source of pride

You think club newsletters,club house/ meeting rooms expenses are always free????

Why should permit $$$$ go towards paying some other club expenses other than trail prep and grooming ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to my 1st snowmobile club meeting out here, might buy my membership $20 and help them out this winter too and ATVs are making us lose trails

BTW this club also has a few members who have organized an ATV club, the club itself is helping with trails but the problem is no one cares and just rides where ever when ever and the club is about to give up after this yr, luckily the snowmobile club is quite strong, but the bad apples on ATVs are ruining it for all

Sorry to back up...I was just catching up.

It is crucial for these people who have organized an ATV club to keep with it. It takes time and yes..frustration to grow a club. IT IS IMPERATIVE to save trails and promote trail stewardship that ATV clubs exist, or the yahoo's will run all over.

There is a need to organize atv's in all areas as the sport grows ir it will have disastrous effects. Imagine if sledding was not organized or back track to forty years ago when trails were a few Km's long and were groomed with a bed spring?

If ATV operators are trespassing..then it is time somebody get to work and lay some charges. Our ATV club has done it and once the message get's out..things settled down. Anybody can collect the information needed to lay a trespassing charge. What we did was have our Warden photograph the violator, obtain plate info, a GPS coordinate (really helps), time, date, other physical description of violation..then we took it (in our case OPP) who then actually laid the charges. However, be prepared to go to court to substantiate the information provided. We have, as mentioned, done it a few times and the message get's out and solves some problems. It's worth it before a trail is lost to some idiot who has no regard for private land or property that is not designated for ATV use. if it is Crown land or a Ministry bush or forest access road, you are SOL. They can be there as legally as a sled is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to back up...I was just catching up.

It is crucial for these people who have organized an ATV club to keep with it. It takes time and yes..frustration to grow a club. IT IS IMPERATIVE to save trails and promote trail stewardship that ATV clubs exist, or the yahoo's will run all over.

There is a need to organize atv's in all areas as the sport grows ir it will have disastrous effects. Imagine if sledding was not organized or back track to forty years ago when trails were a few Km's long and were groomed with a bed spring?

If ATV operators are trespassing..then it is time somebody get to work and lay some charges. Our ATV club has done it and once the message get's out..things settled down. Anybody can collect the information needed to lay a trespassing charge. What we did was have our Warden photograph the violator, obtain plate info, a GPS coordinate (really helps), time, date, other physical description of violation..then we took it (in our case OPP) who then actually laid the charges. However, be prepared to go to court to substantiate the information provided. We have, as mentioned, done it a few times and the message get's out and solves some problems. It's worth it before a trail is lost to some idiot who has no regard for private land or property that is not designated for ATV use. if it is Crown land or a Ministry bush or forest access road, you are SOL. They can be there as legally as a sled is.

They are giving it one more yr, it is just frustrating that the I can ride where ever I want crowd are the vast majority, I applaud them for trying, I know a buddy of mine tried to organize back home in Chelmsford(Sudbury) and got nowhere, which I find funny as Mattawa and Elliot Lake have had success from the get go in forming clubs and having a great rep

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are giving it one more yr, it is just frustrating that the I can ride where ever I want crowd are the vast majority, I applaud them for trying, I know a buddy of mine tried to organize back home in Chelmsford(Sudbury) and got nowhere, which I find funny as Mattawa and Elliot Lake have had success from the get go in forming clubs and having a great rep

They have to stick with it. It's the " I'll ride wherever I want mentality" that gives all ATV ers a bad name and makes it hard to organize a good club. We have a good club too and while there are always those that pose issues, the strength of the club outweighs them in the end. PM me if the guys out your way need some help, I can put them in touch with our administrator or club Pres who can maybe help troubleshoot some of their issues. The more organized ATV clubs can be the better trail stewardship is and issues can be nipped in the bud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What don't you understand about there being trail loss? Pretty much an entire district has gone. That sounds like trail loss to me. That's pretty much what this whole thread has been about. As for your last statement. Wasn't that the whole point of the "Province Wide System"? To promote touring sledders, like Akron and "his buddies from the US"? They like to ride the more remote areas, like D 16, and is willing to pay for that. I don't think we should be sneering at folks who want to bring their hard earned cash into our province. I think his point is that, he feels the OFSC, as the highest organizing body, should be looking at a more Province-wide approach.

Wildman... Perhaps your question is the answer to the whole probem? Maybe there is no real Province-wide entity making sure the whole thing keeps going. Just local interests looking after their own patch?

BP76Mr

Sorry to go back to this. Bucking Pig gets it. - Thanks.

First of all the trails aren't "reserved for me and my buddies" they were for all of us. We were just ones that chose to enjoy them, if you didn't it's your loss, and now there are fewer of them.

I think the bottom line here is the economy; jobs in the rural areas have been especially hard hit. As a result, people are not trailering as often to ride, they can't afford to. In addition people are moving away from those more remote areas so permit sales are down and there are not adequate resources available to keep the trails safe, and that really is the top priority. I don't think ATV's are the answer, the problem remains the same.

If you have ridden northern Ontario trails over the past 10 years or more you have seen, like I have, the many challenges the volunteers have had to keep them open. How long did we really think the folks at Halfway could keep going? Think about it: without that one place, an important trail is gone. Keeping that in mind you should also be able to recognize those trails that have had trouble recently; "F", C101F and even "C" trail last year would not have opened if not for a handful of determined volunteers. How long before other places decide it's not beneficial to stay open in the winter? 3 Bears, Uncles Cabins, etc...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Updates on the trails in D14.

L143 will be closed due logging. Logs will be hauled south to Elk Lake for this winter. When the Eacomm Timmins mill reopens in the spring logs will be hauled north.

The Shining Tree trails will be looked after by the Gogama club. TOP C will be rerouted to the WEST side of Mattagami Lake. This is not the reroute of a couple of years ago. There will be a spur trail into Shining Tree from the south. I was also told that TOP C may use part of the Tracy Lake Rd to head south towards Capreol.

The Matachewan club has lost a trail due to an open pit mine opening.

I think there may be some rerouting in the Timmins area as well due to mining.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What news do we have of District 13 ?

I ask because there was no District 13 booth at "the show" and there are parts of their website that are not up to date ?

What's happening in D13?

Going to be interesting. Haven't heard from luc yet but there will be trails from wawa to dub, you can count on that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...