Muskoka Land Owners do not care about snowmobilers!

[Cudney Racing]

The following is on the Moose FM 99.5 Blog, if I were a business affected by this I would be up in arms.

Landowner's Block Access To Some Snowmobile Trails In Muskoka

Thursday, 24 December 2009 09:07 CFBG Editor Some snowmobile trails are closing before they even open here in Muskoka. Private landowners across the District have begun to block access to their land because they feel private land should be separate from publicly owned land. Carey-Anne Oke-Cook, President of the Muskoka Landowner's Association says her members want a distinction between public and private land. At the November meeting of District Council, Oke-Cooke stood before Council and demanded changes to land use delegations, including wetland protection. She was told after 12 minutes that her delegation time was up and when she didn’t cease her presentation many Councilors left the Council table. Oke-Cooke says the distinction between private and public land will be brought forward in the Ontario Legislature early in the New Year, with the help of Parry Sound Muskoka M.P.P. Norm Miller. It is not clear how many trails will be affected by the land owner’s decision to block access or for how long the protest will be. More information is expected once the OFSC begins to officially open trails in the area.

Good thing the PET ride was moved.- Bill

[revrnd]

This is a post from FS that I quoted (w/ my reply):

QUOTE (Red Rocket @ Dec 24 2009, 11:19 AM)

I sympathize with the landowners but have to be honest when I say I resent our sport being used as a pawn in their political game.

Trail closures will only increase that resentment - not garner support.

JMO.

You got that right!

I was talking to a friend who's a cottager in Muskoka & is involved w/ her lake association. I mentioned rogue loggers & poor forestry practices. She said that's what Muskoka is trying to control. There are some shady operators out there that will offer a landowner X number of $ (usually way under the value of the timber) then clear cut the property.

We've had our property logged w/ the help of a forestry tech' & other than the '06 tornado damage (cleaned up by a logger in '08) I don't think anyone can complain about the state of our woodlot.

Another post of mine:

Well a few years ago Peter tried to suck a bunch of Haliburton landowners into his pissing contest w/ MPAC. He said his operation should be taxed agricultural, not commercial.

They threatened to revoke land permission to the HCSA.

[revrnd]

Since my parents own acreage here in Ptbo County, I told them if they're ever approached by a landowners group to tell them to :curse: off. IMO these groups regardless of where they're located in Ontario go about the wrong way to get public support.

Discussing this issue w/ a friend who has a cottage NE of Huntsville & is involved w/ her lake association earlier this year. I mentioned rogue loggers & poor forestry practices. She said that those topics had been mentioned. These guys will give a landowner a "lowball" value for the timber on the land, then pretty well clear cut the property w/ no concern for forest regeneration. I've read items in the Bancroft Times warning landowners about this practice.

I wonder how many of these protesting landowners will actually be affected by the bylaw? Do they own large parcels of land that may be logged in the future or are they small lots (that the trails happen to cross) that will never be logged?

Also, in the background of this bylaw may be a clash of cultures. The new residents of Muskoka who envision a pristine wilderness may be pressuring the council to protect this enviroment. Doing so intrudes on the long time residents who own large parcels of land.

[ToSlow]

i really hope this is not going to turn in to a pissing match to the point that all trails become effected

[SlowTouringGuy]

It's a sad state of affairs. They've been posting their "manifesto" in the newspapers regularly. I've avoided writing letters to Editor page because it will only give the MLA more publicity.

Having got council to back down on proposed legislation, these Jonestown rabid sons of bitches now want all reference to any property by-law removed from the books retroactively. Yes, let me bury spent uranium rods on my property. Let me clear cut. Let me have untreated sewage dumped on my land because I own it and I should be able to do with it whatever I want.

No, for those literal folks out there, they have not been that specific, but what they are demanding will allow them to do anything they want should they choose. I can't build within a certain number of feet of the shoreline. I must have an approved septic tank. I know that these requirements are government intervention on my property but I can see the need for some by-laws. AND, I also understand the process in addressing those things that I wish to have changed. It doesn't involve me driving my tractor across the 401 at 20mph or interfering with the opportunity for my neigbour to make a living.

How presumptuous of anyone to prevent another from putting food on the family table !

By upsetting the business of Muskoka, especially in a economically trying year, these crack-pots will gain no friends from those commercial folks trying to make a living. Many, unfortunately, will go out of business. Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars every week will go lost because the MLA wants to hold hostage the winter economy of Muskoka.

Shame on Them !

[Yukon]

Thanks for posting Bill , it gives me piece of mind in knowing PET made the right decision in relocating -2- Parry Sound this year. As much as we wanted to be in Muskoka and most of all Bracebridge , we just couldn't go through the panic we had to deal with last year with the trails shutting down the day before our fundraiser.

I truly hope both sides can come to a agreement.

As for my opinion on this I will choose to keep my mouth shut on this one.

Hope to see you at this years ride !

[SlowTouringGuy]

As for my opinion on this I will choose to keep my mouth shut on this one.

Because I'm not a recognized member of the MSR I have the luxury of being able to open my mouth.

I got to know Oke-Cook's father-in-law in the late 50's. It's unfortunate, sometimes, what marriages can bring to one's life. I have a great deal of respect for him and am frightfully sorry for the public embarrassment she is causing this solid citizen of the world. His name does not belong in this debacle.

If I have the time one day this week, I'll re-type their fricken "manifesto' here on this thread. If you want the support of rational people, you need to make rational demands.

I also understand resistance to government intervention. I don't understand putting your friends and neighbours out of business.

[revrnd]

A few years ago there was an editorial in the Peterborough Examiner about the members of local Landowners Association. The point of the editorial was that if you don't want gov't intervention, don't expect a fire truck to come to your house if it catches fire, an ambulance to show up if you're hurt, etc.

Also, near Rice Lake a factory pork farm was proposed. The plan had liquid manure lagoons that would overflowed into lake w/ large amounts of rain.

The neighbouring landowners & MOE fought the plan & won.

[slomo]

As the trees on these lands are the property of the crown, perhaps someone should check to see if these property owners are up to date on the stumpage fees they owe to the government.

[DWIGHT RX]

It's a sad state of affairs. They've been posting their "manifesto" in the newspapers regularly. I've avoided writing letters to Editor page because it will only give the MLA more publicity.

Having got council to back down on proposed legislation, these Jonestown rabid sons of bitches now want all reference to any property by-law removed from the books retroactively. Yes, let me bury spent uranium rods on my property. Let me clear cut. Let me have untreated sewage dumped on my land because I own it and I should be able to do with it whatever I want.

No, for those literal folks out there, they have not been that specific, but what they are demanding will allow them to do anything they want should they choose. I can't build within a certain number of feet of the shoreline. I must have an approved septic tank. I know that these requirements are government intervention on my property but I can see the need for some by-laws. AND, I also understand the process in addressing those things that I wish to have changed. It doesn't involve me driving my tractor across the 401 at 20mph or interfering with the opportunity for my neigbour to make a living.

How presumptuous of anyone to prevent another from putting food on the family table !

By upsetting the business of Muskoka, especially in a economically trying year, these crack-pots will gain no friends from those commercial folks trying to make a living. Many, unfortunately, will go out of business. Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars every week will go lost because the MLA wants to hold hostage the winter economy of Muskoka.

Shame on Them !

Thank you on behalf of all the hard working people of Muskoka, and especially to the many individuals who volunteer in snowmobiling. I can appreciate your point of view not taking this debate to the media. However, we run the risk of the community believing that which goes uncontested as the truth. Negotiation should never be done through the media, printing of the whole story should be! STG you ROCK!! WRITE ON!!!

[luvsno]

Just found this: OH NO!!!!

As the Muskoka Land Owner’s Association continues its on-going debate with District Council, they have been recognized by the provincial Land Owner’s body. The Muskoka Landowner’s Association recently received the 2009 Award for most outstanding county landowners association. The M-L-A was founded in January of last year and is widely recognized for battling the District over the proposed tree cutting by-law and closing down access to snow mobile trails last winter. Armed with a petition demanding changes, including demands that land owners be exempt from wetlands protection, the M-L-A was back in front of District Council last month. The M-L-A was given the award at the Ontario Landowner’s Association General Meeting last month.

WHO IS ON THE PROVINCIAL LAND OWNER'S BODY.

We have a cottage outside Bracebridge on the river and a Resort up the river applied for grandfather clauses for himself so he doesn't have to apply for or install septic systems for the proposed 350 new sites that are available, he got it. The river is too busy now, no one obeys speed limits and they want more people, my shoreline has erroded 6 feet in 30 years because the Power Plant had installed another stop log when they went automated. The moe wants me to submit a detailed plan to protect my shoreline because they don't believe me.

Now my question is who do I side with, an association who seems to get what they want with threats or the guy who can get grandfather clauses for no septic system now for the illegal sites he set-up and in the future do whatever he wants.

There is just no common sense anywhere in the world anymore and it is killing us.

I cut trees that are a danger, I have my septic system checked yearly, I go slow near the shore, I don't have a bonfire on a windy dry night and so on. What the f#@% is wrong with people. SORRY FOR THE LONG RANT, I am done now.

[ALLNYTRO]

Hopefully all this banter doesn't affect the Kelly Shires Run. That would be shameful.

[revrnd]

WHO IS ON THE PROVINCIAL LAND OWNER'S BODY.

Ask Randy Hillier as he started this BS down in Lanark County. He was of the opinion that because there were too many deer in the area, landowners should be able to shoot as many as they like. I also think he was the mastermind (SARCASM) behind the "Take Your Tractor for a Drive on the 401 Day". Now the clown is a MPP? Give me a break.

Drive up Durham 57 to Asselstines & you'll see a bunch of their signs. I'm sure the 407 project has something to do w/ it.

[PhilthyPhil]

[scrummage]

Wow, you make "Right wing american style neo-con" sound like a BAD thing. I read the Wikipedia article you referenced and he sounds OK, even reasonable. Land owners opposed Leona Dumbrowski and the Liberals who tried to put a factory hog farm on land that drained into our lake. Not all sledders come up from Toronto. Many are also land owners in the area and oppose the tree cutting by laws. Its a tough choice for them. Let's face it we wouldn't have many trails if we couldn't trim or remove trees. Sometimes politicians only listen when there is a financial incentive.

[Cudney Racing]

Here is an enmail reply from MSR that I received. - Bill

I know exactly what you mean regarding what this will do to our area and

businesses.

As of this very moment, no land closures have taken place.

If the MLA go through with land closures, the snowmobile association and

member clubs will be putting together our own press release regarding the

situation.

Lets hope this does not happen and that people start to realize just how

much this is hurting tourism in Muskoka amongst many other things.

Thanks again for your inquiry and support with our region.

[Viper]

Sounds promising Bill let's hope cooler heads prevail....

[SlowTouringGuy]

Read the front page article of today's Gravenhurst Banner.

Jerk-Offs !

[Yukon]

There are no trail closures in District 7 do to the MLA , this is strictly somebody stirring the pot.

Clubs in district 7 and its volunteers are working there butts of to have trails open.

[revrnd]

Read the front page article of today's Gravenhurst Banner.

Jerk-Offs !

Here's the article in case it gets "disappeared" on the Banner's website:

Snowmobile trails could close again, group warns

December 30, 2009 - by Karen Longwell

Landowners plan once again to close snowmobile trails in Muskoka this season.

Carey-Anne Oke-Cook, president of Muskoka Landowners Association confirmed some landowners are closing trails on their property. The closures come in response to the Town of Gravenhurst’s zoning bylaw updates, said Oke-Cook.

Recently, the landowners association has run advertisements and distributed a petition asking that land designations in official plans be removed from private land. The association takes exception to policies on private land that deal with environmentally protected or wetland areas, species at risk or any others that restrict landowners’ ownership and control of their property.

Last February, landowners closed trails in parts of Muskoka in protest of a proposed district-wide tree-cutting bylaw.

The landowners executive has met with regional mayors about the designations, said Oke-Cook. She claimed the association received a letter from Gravenhurst mayor John Klinck on Dec. 16, which said designations won’t be removed from private land in the town’s recent zoning bylaw update.

On Tuesday Klinck confirmed he sent a letter to Muskoka Landowners Association on behalf of council in regards to the zoning bylaw update. He said council has to work within the provincial Planning Act and the Provincial Policy Statement. The removal of environmental protection designations would not conform to the Planning Act, but the town would examine errors identified by any constituent, he said.

The landowners association passed information on to members, but did not ask them to close trails, said Oke-Cook.

“It is our duty to the landowners to keep them informed,” said Oke-Cook. The members make their own decisions to close access to trails on their own property, she indicated.

Oke-Cook claimed trail closures have extended past the Muskoka region to parts of Quebec, Manitoba and northern Ontario. She said landowners are supporting Gravenhurst landowners.

“It is pretty significant,” she said.

The timeline of when trails will be closed or re-opened is not known.

Norm Woods, MSR (Muskoka Snowmobile Region) president, said he was told that some Port Carling landowners intend to close trails on their property.

“We have been notified that there are some landowners that are going to close their trails, we haven’t seen it yet,” he said.

Woods said he isn’t sure how many trails will be affected.

“We don’t know, at this point, how widespread it will be, but when you have a major corridor like the D trail running through Bracebridge all it takes is one landowner in Bracebridge to stop it and that shuts that whole thing down.”

Woods said the MSR will keep monitoring the situation.

“I will just keep my fingers crossed and hopefully we can provide some snowmobiling for the general public.”

Parts of trails have been open in Gravenhurst, Bracebridge, Port Sydney and Baysville, but others have remained closed due to weather conditions, said Woods.

Snowmobilers should check the MSR or the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs website for current information.

According to Oke-Cook, legislation found in documents such as municipal official plans and the Provincial Policy Statement is far reaching.

“It is an absolute infringement on private property rights,” she said.

Private landowners are the sole decision makers on land, water and air they have rightfully purchased, Oke-Cook said.

“We take the position that present or future pending legislation is unacceptable, impossible and unreasonable,” she said.

[revrnd]

I added the bold for emphasis.

A) That kind of goes w/ what STG says about burying spent fuel bundles, etcetera. I wonder if they want carte blanche to alter the shorelines @ their properties as well?

As has been posted here (or elsewhere on the 'net) how many landowners are really involved in this?

C) Does "cabal" correctly describe these groups?

cabal Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuh-bal] noun, verb, -balled, -balling.

–noun 1. a small group of secret plotters, as against a government or person in authority.

2. the plots and schemes of such a group; intrigue.

3. a clique, as in artistic, literary, or theatrical circles.

–verb (used without object) 4. to form a cabal; intrigue; conspire; plot.

Origin:

1610–20, for an earlier sense; earlier cabbal < ML cabbala. See cabala

Related forms:

caballer, noun

Synonyms:

1. junta, faction, band, league, ring. 2. See conspiracy.

D) My parents are landowners & they've never been asked for support by this group.

E) Isn't it illegal in Ontario to have a double hyphenated name?

[SlowTouringGuy]

Clubs in district 7 and its volunteers are working there butts of to have trails open.

Irrelevant.

All clubs are working their butts off to have trails open. All of us.

But as long as these rabble rousers keep getting front page coverage, people will book their weekends elsewhere. People are not going to book a weekend here if there is a chance they can't ride. By the time they find out they can't ride, it's too late to book elsewhere. So..... they book elsewhere now.

It actually has less impact on those of us that live here. We are still going to buy gas and groceries in town. BUT, it's the hundred of thousands of dollars that the people from outside D7 bring to the Winter Economy that is at risk.

That has nothing to do with whether or not the Clubs in distric 7 and its volunteers are working their butts off to have the trails open. They can work all they want but if whack-jobs like Carey-Anne Oke-Cook and her band of jerk-offs decide to close the trails we've been working our butts off to open then there will be job losses and business closures in Muskoka.

I don't know how she and others will be able to look her friends and neighbours in the face when they can't put food on the table.

[revrnd]

I tried to find a MLA website. Nothing came up but this is interesting:

http://ruralrevolution.com/website/ Scroll down to the examples of OSPCA "abuses". Doesn't sound the animals in question were being too well either.

Muskoka content:

http://www.ruralrevolution.com/website/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=319&Itemid=408

155 folks came together in Muskoka to form the MLA. I wonder how many landowners in Muskoka have NOT joined the MLA this year?

[14 snow]

This continues to be an ongoing problem and as clubs we may be able to work through possible local land owner issues one at at time. For our Gravenhurst area, we have had "threats" of closures this year however due to mis-communication calmer heads prevailed. As clubs, we unfortunately have to play it one day at a time. To STG's point, clubs and volunteers have to continue to work on the trails and assume all trails will open.

It really sucks that the MLA is holding snowmobilers hostage once again in attempt to "fight" local and provincial government policies...

Hopefully this will pass over soon enough and we call enjoy the trails.

[ALLNYTRO]

I have gone to Deerhurst the past 4 years in a row for a week-long riding vacation. Because of what happened last year, (trails closed the week I was there) I booked a trip in sundridge this year (D10). I can't afford to take the chance that the trails may close. It's too bad because I really like riding in D7, and I love the resort and all of the services that Huntsville has to offer.

I'm sure I"m not the only one that has made similar "adjustments" to their vacationing plans.