Turbo Doo Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 34 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: If the OFSC has to wait for a prior year 5% sales increase to get approval from MTO for an increase, IMHO the OFSC could go out of business waiting because of a STUPID rule imposed by some know nothing at the MTO. The MTO has been increasing licensing costs for autos and commercial vehicles at rates not seen in the past as well as for related transaction rates. I bet they aren't using the same criteria for all of those sales increases. I guess not when its government.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 You have misunderstood. In 2018, at the AGM, the OFSC approved permit prices for 2020. In 2018, if the permit sales did not increase 5% in 2019, the price for 2020 would remain the same. If the 2019 sales did increase by 5% or more, the price would increase. This allowed the OFSC to use the remainder of 2018 and most of 2019 to get MTO approval for the 2020 pricing. We used to approve the permit prices at AGM for the upcoming season, but there were cases where the MTO refused to increase the prices in that short a term, so now we are approving based upon a full year of negotiations. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
04nightfire Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 ordered my permit this a.m. Received confirmation in my junk email right away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason T Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Is there a way to see which club (s) groom what trails? I thought I had seen that somewhere last year but an not find it now. Would make it easier to choose which club on the permit form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrummage Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 If you click on a trail on the interactive map it gives the name of the club responsible for it. But, you'll have to wait till November 1st for the trail guide to be on line again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 52 minutes ago, scrummage said: If you click on a trail on the interactive map it gives the name of the club responsible for it. But, you'll have to wait till November 1st for the trail guide to be on line again. November 4th this year per OFSC yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, sledjunk said: You have misunderstood. In 2018, at the AGM, the OFSC approved permit prices for 2020. In 2018, if the permit sales did not increase 5% in 2019, the price for 2020 would remain the same. If the 2019 sales did increase by 5% or more, the price would increase. This allowed the OFSC to use the remainder of 2018 and most of 2019 to get MTO approval for the 2020 pricing. We used to approve the permit prices at AGM for the upcoming season, but there were cases where the MTO refused to increase the prices in that short a term, so now we are approving based upon a full year of negotiations. Thank you for the additional information. Is the same process going to be used for 2021 and beyond permit pricing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Thank you for the additional information. Is the same process going to be used for 2021 and beyond permit pricing? AFAIK, yes. I can't remember exactly, but, if the sales for 2020 exceed 2019 by >5% then the price will rise to $220 for October pricing next year. All other levels will rise accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Man Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, sledjunk said: the price will rise to $220 for October pricing $30 Seems like a big jump and would cause a lot of people to bitch about it. Wouldn't it be better to just increase it but say 10-$15 but do it more frequently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 There was a connection between permit prices and annual sales. Prices rose, permit sales fell. I spoke to this at AGM, years ago. We had some awful winters (southern Ontario) in the ensuing years and I was thankful that prices were in the $190 range. During the ensuing years, I kept asking: a) non permitted sledders (riders stopped at trail, on ofsc trail, without a permit) and b) non sledders (i.e taxi driver in a northern town) what they thought permit cost. Standard answer - $400. We kept permit prices low, and kept riders 'in the game'. But somehow the message about the 'low' permit cost didn't get out (imo). Tread carefully as you proceed north of $200 (plus s & h)'; realize that Ontario riders pay insurance on top of this (unlike quebec's $330 permit that includes $1 million liability and $2 million for club). Would any of us on this forum bail over a $240 permit. NO. Not for one sled. But if we were keeping 2 or 3, for occasional family ride...yes. You might add it up. What's your tipping point? Get the message out re: the bargain Ontario sledding is, from permit price perspective. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Canuck said: There was a connection between permit prices and annual sales. Prices rose, permit sales fell. I spoke to this at AGM, years ago. We had some awful winters (southern Ontario) in the ensuing years and I was thankful that prices were in the $190 range. During the ensuing years, I kept asking: a) non permitted sledders (riders stopped at trail, on ofsc trail, without a permit) and b) non sledders (i.e taxi driver in a northern town) what they thought permit cost. Standard answer - $400. We kept permit prices low, and kept riders 'in the game'. But somehow the message about the 'low' permit cost didn't get out (imo). Tread carefully as you proceed north of $200 (plus s & h)'; realize that Ontario riders pay insurance on top of this (unlike quebec's $330 permit that includes $1 million liability and $2 million for club). Would any of us on this forum bail over a $240 permit. NO. Not for one sled. But if we were keeping 2 or 3, for occasional family ride...yes. You might add it up. What's your tipping point? Get the message out re: the bargain Ontario sledding is, from permit price perspective. So Quebec is $330.00 for early bird permits including $42.60 of insurance value (including tax). That would mean a Quebec early bird price of $287.40 without the insurance included and we are at $190.00 or basically $100.00 less for the equivalent permit. I understand that Quebec gets more snow than southern Ontario and has a longer riding season in many of their areas than does Southern Ontario. I just think $100.00 less is way off base. IMHO we should be paying $240.00 for an early bird permit if we want the OFSC to continue to provide the quality of service required in Ontario. As far as permits for additional occasional ride sleds maybe the answer is not to buy a full year permit but buy the days as needed and print the temp. permit out when needed. I just checked and on my insurance renewal the $1,000,000 liability coverage is $65.00 + tax so it's not that out of whack when you consider that I'm one client vs. Intact getting a whole province of riders in one client. Edited October 2, 2019 by PISTON LAKE CRUISER 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chez-nous cest skidoo Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 just did mine , no problems cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I'm seriously considering only 1 permit this year. For the use my old sled got last year I will save money getting day passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Canuck said: There was a connection between permit prices and annual sales. Prices rose, permit sales fell. I spoke to this at AGM, years ago. We had some awful winters (southern Ontario) in the ensuing years and I was thankful that prices were in the $190 range. During the ensuing years, I kept asking: a) non permitted sledders (riders stopped at trail, on ofsc trail, without a permit) and b) non sledders (i.e taxi driver in a northern town) what they thought permit cost. Standard answer - $400. We kept permit prices low, and kept riders 'in the game'. But somehow the message about the 'low' permit cost didn't get out (imo). Tread carefully as you proceed north of $200 (plus s & h)'; realize that Ontario riders pay insurance on top of this (unlike quebec's $330 permit that includes $1 million liability and $2 million for club). Would any of us on this forum bail over a $240 permit. NO. Not for one sled. But if we were keeping 2 or 3, for occasional family ride...yes. You might add it up. What's your tipping point? Get the message out re: the bargain Ontario sledding is, from permit price perspective. I understand your point, but permit sales have been declining over the last few years while daily permits have skyrocketed. This year, the free weekend is cancelled and we are hoping the sales will increase. However, $190 permit is no longer financially feasible and must go up. Also, you must realize that the insurance in the Quebec permit is only for Quebec residents and Quebec liability claims are severely restricted in their settlements. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Guys, even if it goes up 25 bucks, if your involved with sledding, and your panicked about the increase, you may need to rethink being involved. Not to make a jab at anyone, i for one KNOW the COSTS of this sport, but sledjunk is right. We all want the best for this sport, but it needs more money. We all want more grooming, more this, more that. It all costs money. You have to pay, to play.. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I don't have my vin yet on my new sled .What would be the best way to acquire my permit without hassle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 15 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: So Quebec is $330.00 for early bird permits including $42.60 of insurance value (including tax). That would mean a Quebec early bird price of $287.40 without the insurance included and we are at $190.00 or basically $100.00 less for the equivalent permit. I understand that Quebec gets more snow than southern Ontario and has a longer riding season in many of their areas than does Southern Ontario. I just think $100.00 less is way off base. IMHO we should be paying $240.00 for an early bird permit if we want the OFSC to continue to provide the quality of service required in Ontario. As far as permits for additional occasional ride sleds maybe the answer is not to buy a full year permit but buy the days as needed and print the temp. permit out when needed. I just checked and on my insurance renewal the $1,000,000 liability coverage is $65.00 + tax so it's not that out of whack when you consider that I'm one client vs. Intact getting a whole province of riders in one client. Your suggesting a price increase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 9 hours ago, sledjunk said: I understand your point, but permit sales have been declining over the last few years while daily permits have skyrocketed. This year, the free weekend is cancelled and we are hoping the sales will increase. However, $190 permit is no longer financially feasible and must go up. Also, you must realize that the insurance in the Quebec permit is only for Quebec residents and Quebec liability claims are severely restricted in their settlements. Exactly... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, UsedtoSkidoo said: Your suggesting a price increase? Yes. I believe our sport cannot continue in Ontario without additional funding. Everything from signs & stakes to groomer parts/repairs is going up in cost. If there isn't sufficient money in the coffers to cover the increases, then some OFSC services will have to disappear.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, irREVerent said: Exactly... 17 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Yes. I believe our sport cannot continue in Ontario without additional funding. Everything from signs & stakes to groomer parts/repairs is going up in cost. If there isn't sufficient money in the coffers to cover the increases, then some OFSC services will have to disappear.. $190.00 permit is a complete joke 20k for a new Doo 8k for a new trailer 500 insurance 500 misc stuff 800 for a new FXR suit and $190.00 for a permit...….. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 3 hours ago, snowchopper said: I don't have my vin yet on my new sled .What would be the best way to acquire my permit without hassle? Purchase a gift card. Apparently, that locks in the price and the actual permit can be purchased later. Verify with OFSC to be sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manotickmike Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I'm all about an increase in permit prices if we get better compliance. Compliance won't happen without enforcement. MTO charges for it, won't provide it, won't let clubs patrol like the Quebec model. I don't ride in the high traffic/population areas. It's been 3 years since I was checked for compliance. That was at a road crossing. Visible for miles, lots of U-turns visible. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 On 10/1/2019 at 3:10 PM, andreyboater said: Orderd two permits for my sleds almost 4 hours ago, but still no email confirmation:( Worrying aboot having a temp permit now is kind'a like gitt'n the sleigh ahead of the dogs? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 9 hours ago, snowchopper said: I don't have my vin yet on my new sled .What would be the best way to acquire my permit without hassle? Or get yourself a gift card, and use it when you have said vin... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Most people are invested in the sport we all love very heavily. For the people that wish to complain about a said potential increase you really need to step back and look at what your getting for your 190 if you get it early. You get access to an entire province of trails that most people will never see. Just to put things into perspective my son went to Ifly indoor skydiving last weekend it was a 75 dollars for about 3 minutes no joke(was it worth it hell no, did he have fun yes and will he remember it yes). Myself i have contemplated getting out of it all, but never due to the permit price that is the cheapest part of it all in the big picture. Most people that trailer will spend this travelling for one weekend alone on fuel let alone food, beverages(if thats your thing), hotel ETC.ETC. i would love to see the OFSC increase the price if it helps the clubs and maybe help enforcement get out there more. IE. trail patrol, hand out heavy fines for freeloaders i am all for it. Personally i think a fine should be $500 and you have to buy a permit on top. I think its time to hit this freeloading thing hard enough is enough. I hope that this year we can see the matrix increase for next year its time. The trails are busier and busier each year and by the sounds of it we have a lot of freeloaders out there that need to be stopped and if a permit increase will help us have enforcement then lets go raise it up. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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